i THINK i HAVE HEAD ON LANDINGS UNDER CONTROL, BUT CROSSWIND............ IS KILLING ME. PLEASE HELP!

STOP YELLING!! lol I just kind of bring her in at angle sort of sideways with the nose pointing into the crosswind, then I just kind of kick the tail feather straight at the last minute with the rudder just before I set her down. It is probably not the correct method but I do it all the time & it seems to work well for me. I just kind of feel my wsy thru it. It allows me to fly in winds that ground a lot of the other guys at our field.

I'm sure some of the more experienced fliers can give you better advice as to the proper method, like I said I just kind of found a way to feel my way thru it using almost all rudder & very little aileron if any. Practice & you will get it. That is also something the sim is pretty handy for if you have one. Turn up the wind up good & high with a 45% crosswind & have at it. Good luck.

The January issue of Model Airplane News has a very good article on handling crosswind

Learn to use the rudder to correct your heading. Try to think of it as if you were actually sitting in the cockpit. If the wind is blowing from the right feed in a little right rudder until you see a heading change. Keep the wings level with the ailerons if necessary. Keep working the throttle.

I used to be afraid to fly in the wind....now I kinda like it.

Grump is right. The last-minute rudder has saved me many times. Now I am practicing with rudder all the way in while adding opposite aileron and sorta squishing it in.

In a crosswind, allow the wind to show you your approach. Then use the wind to put your plane in position. Your RUDDER is the best tool for crosswind landings and you will get a feel for how much aileron to add after a few tries.

Most people will warn against high rates when learning, but I found high rates very useful to make quick recoveries while learning....and never forget the THROTTLE. It will help you master the wind instead of allowing the wind to master you.

Practice holding your plane still while flying upwind on a windy day....give yourself some altitude, of course. It's just plain fun!!

I will try it next time out in the field. Already experimented with rudder and ailerons but after reading the posts just realized I forgot all about the throttle!

Do you think that by programming the rudder with inverse ailerons will wourk? and if yes, in what proportions?

Today, after reading this thread, I cranked a pretty hefty 10 o'clock crosswind into my G2 Sim. Didn't have much trouble with the planes with small fin and rudder. Then I called up the B17 with that humongous fin and rudder. The taxi out was a handful, the takeoff was scary, with full right rudder to maintain some semblance of a straight line. Then it was time to land, and the fun really began. The first attempt put it off the runway to the right; went around, and started final way to the left, finally getting a touchdown in the center of the runway, but before the tail finally came down, the plane was way over to the right. Good training! Glen

DON'T program for crosswind landings. In fact I think you should refrain from all mixing until you can do it all with the sticks anyway. I have a JR 9303 with ALL KINDS of complicated mixing options and I don't even use them on my little planes. Most really good flyers can fly without them and only use them to make aerobatic maneuvers less arduous.

If you really want to get familiar with the controls, fly a 3D foamy for a few months. Once you are hovering and Knife-Edging, you will have a new appreciation for the rudder....and everything else, for that matter.

There is NO SECRET to getting better at anything. It just takes LOTS and LOTS of PRACTICE....and doing ONE THING you were afraid to do last time...every time.

In these matters, altitude is your friend.

Very good advice. Learning to manually add rudder will make you more aware of what you are doing with the control to get the plane to do what you want it to do vs letting a mix automagically do it. May be more difficult but will make you a better pilot.

I'm still learning rudder input myself. Those times when I get it right - damn it's nice!

I use 0 mixing.

Just my 2¢

somegeek

No. Just learn to fly the plane. Messing about with that computer radio is one of the quickest ways to crash. Don't ask me how I know that either.

UM....so......just how DO you know that?

I agree, mixing isn't the way to learn how to deal with the wind. I too have a nice JR radio, (not as fancy as Mark's) but it will still do all the mixing. I don't use any of it yet. I don't use any expo either I like the feel of a positve response to my every imput. Once I get good enough by myself without any computer aided skills then I may mess around with some mixing for very specific things, but crosswind landings would never be one of them.

Like they're all saying just practice, practice, then some more practice. It will become fun & a challenge that you will enjoy conquering. Unfortunately once you have reached that point then it just gets sort of bothersome. Sometimes I get tired of always fighting to play in the wind but around here if ya don't then ya don't fly very much. That's all there is to it. We got some guys that pack it in at 5 to 10mph which usually happens by an hour after day-break. Myself I refuse to be crippled by the wind. I will however break out the ol' Trainer when it gets too hairy like 25 or better. No since risking a good plane in excessive wind but it can still be a little entertaining to fight it out with a Trainer now & then.

Landing crosswind is just a matter of being able to fly a wind corrected straight line down the runway. The problem is that as you slow down, the cross wind is going to take the plane further to the downwind side. As the plane slows down, you must turn the plane further and further into the wind direction to maintain your approach line. This is where most people get in trouble. They are so used to turning the plane by banking and pulling, that they do this instintively.

What you must do is keep the wings level (or keep the upwind wing veryl slightly down if its a dihedral wing), and keep adjusting your heading with the rudder. Adjust your heading such that it counters the wind effect. And keep the wings level. Did I mention keeping the wings level?

Practice slowing your plane down and flying the wind corrected line a few mistakes high. You'll get the hang of it.

Practice, practice, practice. And remember its better to go around than turn a bad approach into a disastrous landing.

Brad

cjposada, just think about you statement above , programming rudder with ailerons . So assume you go ahead with this, and do your programming for an expected 10mph cross wind at 45 degrees. What happens if the wind is 13mph at 60 degrees? All your programming is down the shute. Learn to control the rudder correctly , and you will be able to handle any wind at any angle, and using your throttle wisely to perform outstanding landings in any weather condition. As stated above practice flying slow , at altitude, with the wind blowing on the side of your model, and fly a straight line. The model will appear to be slightly sideways, but maintaining a straight line up the strip. Give it a go , and practice practice practice. I now fly in winds up to 30mph , and 90 degrees to the runway. It is a good challenge , and makes you a better pilot. Just remember when the wheels do touch the runway to control the rudder on the ground as the model slows up, straight down the centre line.
Bill

well i kno frome flying real planes that when landing in a cross wind u tilt the wing into the wind and aply opiset rudder to keep the plane straight... ............iv found that it works well with model aircraft aswell[8D]

Tilting the plane into the wind (slightly) works on a dihedral wing to keep the cross wind from picking up the upwind wing and rolling the plane away from the runway. Most full scale planes are designed with some dihedral for stability. With the plane slightly banked, there might be some need for rudder correction opposite the ailerons to prevent the plane from turning into the wind further. This effect will be very dependent upon the particular planes design. The amount of rudder you apply will be dependent on the strength of the crosswind. For a plane with no di-hedral (most aerobatic planes for example), there is very little tendency for the wind to pick up the wing, so there is very little need to bank into the wind.

You will still need to point the plane into the wind slightly to makeup for the offset introduced by the wind. You must use the rudder to maintain the correct heading angle to correct for the wind. The objective is to NOT perform and aileron turn on approach.

Brad

I want to thank you guys for all the info! Mixing is out of the question and yes I know ............PRACTICE!

Learning to fly the rudder to wind correct will certainly make you a better pilot and is ultimately the most useful and underutilized tool and most difficult to truly master. You absolutely do not want to mix for crosswinds because conditions change too frequently to even consider a crosswind mix,,, even more perplexing... what would you mix? There are just too many variables. For that matter you dont want to mix for any external variables because external variables are just that, variable.

I see lots more comments here about no mixing making you a better pilot. Fellas, that could not be further from the truth and its not my opinion its a fact. Your goal in setup should always be to build and setup a plane that flies truly neutral with no coupling issues. Once you have done everything in your power to mechanically adjust out all of the bad tendencies, you mix out what is left. Mix is just an extension of good mechanical setup,, it is not the radio flying the plane. How many of you intenetionally leave the engine thrust out of whack, or leave excess weight in the plane, your ailerons drooping, or incorrect incidence in the wing/stab? We correct all of these things to make the plane fly better, more neutral.. At some point you have done all you can do and you are left with the inferior qualities built into the airframe design. At that point it is no different to mix out a coupling issue than it is to trim the elevator or ailerons for level flight.

If you want to fly without mixes thats cool, but it will not make you a "better pilot" in the long run.. As a matter of fact, it can lead to bad control tendencies because you tend to "lean" on a control constantly to compensate. I would take little pride in 0 mixes unless it is because your plane has no inherent coupling issues and flies perfectly neutral. [8D]

Mike.
I'm one of those saying this. But you are also quoting me out of context. I'm not saying that mixing is bad, I'm saying it's bad for the beginner. IMHO the beginning pilot needs to learn to completely control the plane using nothing but the sticks. This makes them a much better pilot. If they use a radio to mix the controls then they never quite learn how to actually do it. Once a pilot has soloed and moved on to other planes there is absolutely nothing wrong with using mixes. I use them on several of my planes to help in some situations. In fact, on my Slow Poke I keep a aileron-rudder mix in it all the time because I feel it makes the plane a much better flying plane.

Along the same lines this is one of the reasons why I recommend that beginner's shy away from computer radios. Everybody here is human (although I have my doubts about Bubbagates sometimes!! ) and they like to play with all the buttons, bells, and switches of a computer radio. IMHO the pilot that learns to fly with the bare bones radio is a much better pilot because they have a complete understanding of what the plane is doing at all times. How many times have you heard this one, "My plane is doing <insert weird behavior here> and I just can't figure out what to do about it". But when you look at the plane you know exactly is going on. That's because that pilot took shortcuts in their education and they don't understand the basics of flight and controlling the plane.

Ok, climbing down off of the soapbox now!!!!

Ken

I totally agree that beginners should not use mixes on their trainers ,, I agree with that wholeheartedly. Trainer planes don't fly in a manner that requires mixing and new pilots don't have the skills to yet recognize the need if it were there.

Let me see if I can clear up my point of view, I'm betting we are not that far apart. At some point the pilot will recognize that his/her plane is doing something that is not quite right.. Its pulling "this way" or pitching "that way" when he does "this" or "that". Once the pilots skill level reaches the point that he begins to recognize these tendencies he should begin trying to figure out WHY the plane is acting a certain way so that he can make his plane fly better. First making subtle mechanical adjustments to thrust, cg, etc and experimenting to see how close he can get to the desired effect by making mechanical changes. Once he has made all of the mechanical adjustments that he knows how to make and the plane is still pulling "this way" or "that way",, not because of outside interference like wind,,, then it is not only acceptable but smart to mix out those bad tendencies.

I can understand the value of flying a plane that is out of trim for educational purposes.. I can even understand not mixing for the excercise of making corrections just to help the student understand the relationships between the various control surfaces and how they relate to one another. I understand that learning to fly these tendencies in the early stages aids in learning the dexterity of controlling.


It helps to make a pilot, an improved pilot,, for a time. But, I respectfully disagree with the wholesale thought that not using mixes makes a pilot "a better pilot".

I cringe when I see people who say that they pride themselves in using zero mixes and feel that they are better pilots (as opposed to pilots who do not use mixes) because of it. Good pilots,, the best pilots , I mean pilots that can REALLY fly with or without mixes, try to understand all of the variables involved in setup and control and how to correct problems completely. They also understand when and how to mix to get the most out of a plane and its pilot. The goal should always be 1 or 2 things.. To make a plane fly scale or to make it fly well.

Mike,
Actually we're pretty far apart. 517 miles to be exact (according to [link=http://maps.google.com]maps.google.com[/link] )

Sorry about that, very poor attempt at humor!!!

No, I think we do have the same opinions. I just wanted to put out that I only believe mixes shouldn't be used while training.

Ken

And while attempting a crosswind landing.[sm=lol.gif]