Hey guys, just so you know...

I'm only doing a little friendly ribbing. We haven't had a good gripe session in a while now, and I was feeling playful, so I stirred the pot. I like anything that flies, and I don't want anyone to take it too seriously.

Now go ahead and tell me to chop down a balsa tree to build my next airplane.

Minnflyer - you killer!! :P I've seen more guys try to take more trees down with planes than anything in my life.

Glad to see the thread take a good turn myself, there's enough negative in the world today. If you do fly a spad, trainer or otherwize - dont keep it a secret we love hearing about it.

If you get a balsa trainer check the following and I'm sure someone can add more:

1. The firewall. (Sometimes the manufacturers dont put enough glue on it.)
2. Check the cut of the flying surfaces. The first trainer I ever bought (ARTF) for someone else had the horozontal stab cut improperly, so they sent me a new plane, no questions asked. (Hangar 9 Cessna)
3. Fuel proof the interior as instructed
4. Have an instructor check it out before you even fly it.

Good Luck.

If anyone wants to add anything, thats great to help him out...knowledge is power....

P.S. On a spad, you just slice a flute, and the hinging is done and lasts forever

I fly both wood and plastic. Love them both. I can say I'm not sure I would have stuck with the hobby if it weren't for spads.
Anyway, the real reason I posted was has anybody ever really seen a balsa tree ? Where do they grow ? Not being a smart *****...just wondering. It would be kinda funny to stroll thru a "balsa" forest .

First I am a SPADDER. But I will tell you what planes I will have and MY PRO'S and CONS.

My first plane was a Goldberg Eaglet 50 It was a .25 size trainer

FIRST OFF DON'T BUY A .25 TRAINER. They are small and actually a little more agile than a 40 size in my oppinion. They get smaller faster and with a 50" wingspan they just not the choice.
LT40 will be a great trainer.

I did not crash this plane with an instructor. I did keep him on his toes a little until I learned. I flew and crashed this plane many times. most crashes were mild and looked alot worse than they really were. That is a big thing. once a little knowledge is had about repairing you'll be surprised at how bad an easy fix can look.

But sometimes it isn't so easy.

My second plane was a fourstar 40 and it was ablast but after crashing it I ended up deciding to stick with simple oval flight paths since I got tired of repairing.

Then I quit flying. I was so bored at watching a plane fly in circles. tried a few loops and ended up losing alt during a roll and wing first into the ground. I was sick of it! I quit!

Before I sold my gear I was searching for some plans and came across spadtothebone website. Once there (yes it is an EASY BUILT SITE) but that made is simple to read and navagate. THen I got to looking and decide to try it.

after aquiring about 10 times as much supplies as I needed I started. First plane start to finish 12 hours. That's using the awesome STEP BY STEP PLANS on that site. The first one I tried balsa for a motor mount. ok I'm dumb. Then I used ply wood and a mount. It flew I built it a little heavy but it flew and was fun. Also may I add I thaught of my self as a newbie still and I was fearless at trying it in 25 MPH winds. Using the wind I would almost float in one spot then I would fly backwards using the wind. Was fun and really upped my spirits.

Now I'm a site owner dedicated to spads and love the hobby. I am not afraid to try new stuff. and if a situation arises there is no doubt in my head on try to save it and risk injury or ditch it in the dirt.

It's all up to you. The spad plans are step by step. easy to fllow and mainly pics to help. Actually try both. BEfore you buy a plane go ahead and get the radio of your choice and take it to the club field with you to show people you are serious. Then ask if someone would show you the differences in both types of planes. Or they may even let you fly them.

you asked for it

WHERE DOES BALSA WOOD COME FROM? Balsa trees grow naturally in the humid rain forests of Central and South America. Its natural range extends south from Guatemala, through Central America, to the north and west coast of South America as far as Bolivia. However, the small country of Ecuador, on the western coast of South America, is the primary source of model aircraft grade balsa in the world. Balsa needs a warm climate with plenty of rainfall and good drainage. For that reason, the best stands of balsa usually appear on the high ground between tropical rivers. Ecuador has the ideal geography and climate for growing balsa trees. The scientific name for balsa wood is ochroma lagopus. The word balsa itself is Spanish meaning raft, in reference to its excellent flotation qualities. In Ecuador it is known as Boya, meaning buoy.

HOW DOES BALSA WOOD GROW? There is no such thing as entire forests of balsa trees. They grow singly or in very small, widely scattered groups in the jungle. For hundreds of years, balsa was actually considered a weed tree. They reproduce by growing hundreds of long seed pods, which eventually open up and, with the help of the wind, scatter thousands of new seeds over a large area of the jungle. Each seed is airborne on its own small wisp of down, similar to the way dandelion seeds spread. The seeds eventually fall to the ground and are covered by the litter of the jungle. There they lay and accumulate until one day there is an opening in the jungle canopy large enough for the sun's rays to strike the jungle floor and start the seeds growing. Wherever there was an opening, made either by a farmer or by another tree dying, balsa will spring up as thick as grass. A farmer is often hard put to keep his food plot clear of balsa. As the new balsa trees grow, the strongest will become predominate and the weaker trees will die. By the time they are mature, there may be only one or two balsa trees to an acre of jungle.

HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE A BALSA TREE TO GROW? Balsa trees grow very rapidly (like all pesky trees). Six months after germination, the tree is about 1-1/2 inches in diameter and 10 - 12 feet tall! In 6 to 10 years, the tree is ready for cutting, having reached a height of 60 to 90 feet tall and a diameter of 12 to 45 inches. If left to continue growing, the new wood being grown on the outside layers becomes very hard and the tree begins to rot in the center. Unharvested, a balsa tree may grow to a diameter of 6 feet or more, but very little usable lumber can be obtained from a tree of this size. The balsa leaf is similar in shape to a grape leaf, only a lot bigger. When the tree is young, these leaves measure as much as 4 feet across. They become progressively smaller as the tree grows older, until they are about 8 - 10 inches across. Balsa is one of the few trees in the jungle which has a simple leaf shape. This fact alone makes the balsa tree stand out in the jungle.

THE PERFECT NURSE! Nature evidently designed the balsa tree to be a "nurse tree" which would protect the slower-growing species of trees from the scorching jungle sun during their critical early years. For instance, in an area of the jungle that has been ravaged by a tropical storm or other natural disaster, the balsa trees will quickly sprout and beginning to shoot up to impressive heights in a very short time.Their fast growth, and the extra large leaves they have in their early years, provide shade to the young seedlings of the slower-growing forest giants. By the time the seedlings are established enough to take care of themselves, the balsa tree is beginning to die. Undoubtably, the balsa tree's rapid growth, fast spreading crown of first very large and gradually smaller leaves, and it's relatively short life span were intended to make it the "perfect nurse" in the jungle ecosystem.

HOW ARE BALSA TREES HARVESTED? While nature intended the balsa tree to be a short lived nursemaid, mankind eventually discovered that it was an extremely useful resource. The real start of the balsa business was during World War I, when the allies were in need of a plentiful substitute for cork. The only draw back to using balsa was, and still is, the back breaking work that is necessary to get it out of the jungle. Because of the way the individual balsa trees are scattered throughout the jungles, it has never been possible to use mass production logging procedures and equipment. The best way to log balsa trees is to go back to the methods of Paul Bunyan - chop them down with an axe, haul them to the nearest river by ox team, tie them together into rafts, and then float the raft of balsa logs down the river to the saw mill. The logging team usually consists of two native Ecquadorians, each armed with a broad Spanish axe, a machete, and a long pole sharpened like a chisel on one end for removing the bark from the downed trees. Because of the hilly terrain, an ox team may only be able to drag two logs to the river per day. At the saw mill, the balsa is first rough cut into large boards, then carefully kiln dried, and finally packed into bales for shipment to the U.S. via ocean freighter.

Final cutting and finishing of our model aircraft balsa is done right here at the SIG factory. As a result of the balsa tree's fast growth cycle, both the quality and lightness of the lumber obtained from a balsa tree can vary enormously depending upon the tree's age at the time of cutting.

WHY IS BALSA WOOD SO LIGHT? The secret to balsa wood's lightness can only be seen with a microscope. The cells are big and very thinned walled, so that the ratio of solid matter to open space is as small as possible. Most woods have gobs of heavy, plastic-like cement, called lignin, holding the cells together. In balsa, lignin is at a minimum. Only about 40% of the volume of a piece of balsa is solid substance. To give a balsa tree the strength it needs to stand in the jungle, nature pumps each balsa cell full of water until they become rigid - like a car tire full of air. Green balsa wood typically contains five times as much water by weight as it has actual wood substance, compared to most hardwoods which contain very little water in relation to wood substance. Green balsa wood must therefore be carefully kiln dried to remove most of the water before it can be sold. Kiln drying is a tedious two week process that carefully removes the excess water until the moisture content is only 6%. Kiln drying also kills any bacteria, fungi, and insects that may have been in the raw balsa wood.

HOW LIGHT IS KILN DRIED BALSA WOOD? Finished balsa wood, like you find in model airplane kits, varies widely in weight. Balsa is occasionally found weighing as little as 4 lbs. per cu. ft. On the other hand, you can also find balsa which will weigh 24 lbs. or more per cu. ft.

However, the general run of commercial balsa for model airplanes will weigh between 6 lbs. to 18 lbs. per cu. ft. Eight to twelve lb. balsa is considered medium or average weight, and is the most plentiful. Six pounds or less is considered "contest grade", which is very rare and sometimes even impossible to obtain.

IS BALSA THE LIGHTEST WOOD IN THE WORLD? No! Most people are surprised to hear that botanically, balsa wood is only about the third or fourth lightest wood in the world. However, all the woods which are lighter than balsa are terribly weak and unsuitable for any practical use. The very lightest varieties don't really resemble wood at all, as we commonly think of it, but are more like a tree-like vegetable that grows in rings, similar in texture to an onion. It is not until balsa is reached that there is any sign of real strength combined with lightness. In fact, balsa wood is often considered the strongest wood for its weight in the world. Pound for pound it is stronger in some respects than pine, hickory, or even oak

DANG NUKES!!!

Now them spad people gonna be takin flame throwers to the jungles!!!

OOPS! Just started reading some of this stuff and realized your 1 of them 2!

Have fun

My 2 cents in this argument,

I've been flying since January 03 and I have a LT-40, I love the plane. It flies great and floats like a dream.. It goes where I point it in the sky. Really this plane will float a long way and the floating can be a hinderance when the wind picks up while your flying but it is still not uncontrollable. On my last flight the wind begain gusting 5 minutes into the flight and because of the big flat wing, the LT-40 gave me fits while I was trying to land, Luckily a friend was there to assist.



FWIW, I am building a Spadet LC-40. Heck the two planes are similar but the Spadet LC-40 will be more durable. The reason I'm building the Spadet.
One: More flight time. (2 planes better than one)
Two: If one goes in, I'll still have another waiting.
Three: I'll feel better flying the Spadet in a breeze than I would my LT-40. (Because it'll take a licking)
Four: I can practice those breezy landings and less'n the pucker factor.

So like I said, Just my 2 cents

Good flying !!!!!!

Flap,

We would never set fire to forest and yes I am one of them SPADERS.

You guys rock....................
And Tatoo is our hero.....no matter how skinny he is.

I imagine one day I will build a B*#$a warbird. Probably not anytime soon. I've got 20 4' x 8' sheets of 4 mil in the garage. I racked up after the last elections.

No offense lmcruz, but it did sound like you have more money than sense at the begining of this post. I wanted to jump on the band wagon and flame you for your know it all geek boy statements, but I have been on that end of the gun before so I just kept on reading. You have come to your senses about this whole thing it seems. Just keep in mind that as long as your having fun, it's all good.

Unless of course you're chasing people around in the parking lot with your plane. That's not good.

Good luck, and remember. It's not always the hardwares fault. The software was put on last. Before that, the hardware ran just fine.
A little hardware tech humor for you software weanies.

P.S.

You want to see some ugly planes. Check out my site.

Bambams Place

Thanks Nukes. That was very informative.

Now tell us where Coroplast comes from.

It grows in people's front yards, usually around election time

COROPLAST™



COROPLAST™ is a high-quality polypropylene twinwall profile sheet formulated specifically for use in the screen printing, display and packaging markets.

COROPLAST™ uses a copolymer resin in order to increase impact and low temperature performance. Copolymer resins are also used because they retain the ability to be flexed an unlimited number of times without breaking. We call this unique ability "a living hinge."

Chemically, the sheet is inert, with a NIL pH factor. At regular temperatures most oils, solvents and water have no effect, allowing it to perform under adverse weather conditions or as a product component exposed to harsh chemicals.



All COROPLAST™ twinwall profile sheets can be modified with additives, which are melt-blended into the sheet to meet the specific needs of the customer. Needs that require additives include: ultra violet protection, anti-static, flame ratardancy, and color.

COROPLAST™ products are offered in a wide range of standard, opaque and translucent colors.

For the Graphics Arts Fields COROPLAST™ makes the industry leading corrugated sheet plastic, COROPLAST™

COROPLAST™ is the material of choice for today's screen printing industry. COROPLAST™ is ideal for indoor and outdoor applications. It is tougher than corrugated fiberboard and lighter than extruded plastic sheet.

It is waterproof, stain-resistant. Graphic artists have been using COROPLAST™ successfully for years with some of the uses being: Retail Signs, Real Estate Signs, Political Signs, P.O.P.Displays, Bus and Truck Signage, Election Signs, Yard Signs, Agricultural Signage, Special Event Advertising and Trade Displays

I would bet there's an additive that makes CA work on the plastic without flaming. What we need is some entrepeneurial Spadonian to find out what the minimum order is, order up a batch, and sell it to the rest of us!

Nukes, You DA MAN!

Hi MinnFlyer, you must be bored today,ha,ha.

Is SPADS a regional thing? It seems like it's more prevalent back east. Out here in California I have never seen a single power plane or sloper SPAD and I've been to over a dozen flying fields. But then again most of America thinks Californians are all a bunch of weirdos

By the way, we've been using coroplast on EPP slope soarers for awhile. The coroplast is mainly used for the tail surfaces or winglets and are indeed tough, but they have a tendency to develop permanent kinks along the grain. Toughness is definitely a virtue in the often hostile conditions on the slope but personally I'd rather give up some durability for a pretty airplane, especially a scale airplane. The modeling techniques of wood or composite construction is superior for this purpose.

But of course, if your primary goal is to fly and be able to goof around with no worries, then a SPAD is a cheap, fast way to do it. They're not for me, but to each their own.

mattebox,
Hi, SPAD is all over the world. If you want to try to locate someone in your area that does SPAD then try the Spadonian Locater at this web site. http://spadtothebone.com
Also this site can link you to the Spadworld forum were there is a section for SPAD slopers and SPAD gliders.

Man i want to start rc flying but if it cost $400.00 to join a club thats more than a plane! and i thought the plane was expensive!gosh they should lower that fee what do they do at that club? i mean do they give you free planes and if you crash them they give you more? well anyway i was considering buying a Vmar Apache III trainer what do you guys think of it as my first plane the website i got it from says they have sold 12 since 1st of January and have had no complaints sent to them abou any of them and this one dude baught 4 at a time!

I must enter the fray and submit my vote for the LT-40. My reason for this is a little booklet that's about 50 plus pages called "Getting Started in RC". This is one of the best pieces of information that a beginner could ever get his or her hands on. These are included with every Sig Kadet. Also the instruction manual explains every detail in a manner that someone just starting out can understand.

Couple of the guys at our field are flying Vmar planes,for the price they seem to be ok.

You can read all the BOOKLETS you can find but you are still gonna crash! Be it dumb thumbs,gear failure or?????
It's not a matter of if you crash it's when
We all know it happens that LT 40 will be in many pieces

Once more with feeling...

To those of you who want to join this hobby, I have been flying for about a year, just so you know where I'm coming from.

If you join a club and train with an instructor and try to fly conservatively and don't try to fly inverted 10 feet off the ground the RISK of crashing a 40 sized trainer is pretty low. My LT-40 is still in one piece. Of the other four guys in our training program only one had a major crash and he was trying a flat spin on his fourth solo flight. So, we're talking 5 brand new pilots, 5 various 40-sized trainers, and several hundred flights over six months.

There is a group of posters on these boards who for various reasons continue to imply that you will crash and crash and crash. Some seem to be doing it to promote SPADS (because they are "indestructible"), some seem to be doing it because they may actually crash and crash and crash.

I firmly believe that after six or 10 flights with an instructor, YOU will KNOW when you are putting your aircraft at risk and you can decide if you want to do that or if you want to be more safe/conservative.

Yes, over 10 or 20 years, gravity will claim one or more of your airplanes. But the risk of this with a trainer, if you DO NOT push it past its envelope is LOW.

You DO NOT have to choose an indestructible airplane because your trainer is doomed to crash on every flight.

I think some of the SPADs are kind of cool looking, but I find it very annoying that they keep trying to take over every thread where someone says they are looking at a balsa trainer.

Very true GB.

The idea here is to learn how NOT to crash, not to "not have to worry about it".