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Improper break-in

Old 05-23-2007, 04:52 PM
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Default Improper break-in

Is it 100% certain that an engine will sustain permanent damage if an improper break in is performed, say, running it very lean for about 10 minutes, or are the first few tanks the ones who determine the whole break in result?
Old 05-23-2007, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Good question. I started out thinking yes. I have seen the results of someone getting a lean run on a first flight where the engine was also brand new and the engine seizing in flight.

It is going to create an undesireable amount of heat but is it any worse than a lean run for 10 mins at any time. I am not sure.

Hmmmm?
Old 05-23-2007, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

If so, how can one determine if the engine is damaged?
Old 05-23-2007, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

A lot depends on the engine type.
If it is ringed, then while a lean run will hurt the engine, it is not catastrophic.
If it is ABC then I would say that you will never get the potential out of that engine.
Old 05-23-2007, 07:07 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

when you turn the prop through is it nice and smooth no hard/grinding spots? If it locks up it's cooked....If it's smooth and still feels fine and has good compression. It should be fine, just continue a proper break in.
Depends the type of engine we are talking about, but it normally takes many tanks before it's "done".
Old 05-23-2007, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Depends on how much castor oil you have in your fuel.
Old 05-23-2007, 08:56 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Its 18% oil. Its a O.S .46 AX ABL. Its still feels smooth and has got the same compression it had originally. I opened it up and it all seems fine but I dont think a visual inspection is enough.
Old 05-23-2007, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

if compression is good and no rough places when you turn it over id say you didnt do that much damage.try running it and richen it up see how it runs.
Old 05-23-2007, 10:11 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

if there is no visable scar in the piston or cylinder, you probably are fine how did you determin if you were having a lean run? and for 10 min.
did you get this engine out of the box,and if you did why was it not run in as per instructions they are easy to follow and your engine will live a long life if done right.
OS engines have a short break in, one basic run in, then you can fly with it, just run it a little rich. again the instructions would have covered this thoroughly.
were you flying? did it die because of over heating?or did it just run out of fuel,was there any oil coming out of the pipe when it was running?how many turns was the needle opened(should have been 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 out for the first few flights).
these would be the first things I would want to know, before you would tell if its burnt.
if there was any oil coming out of the pipe then you should be fine.best to read the manual and repeat the break in procedure if your worried, then set the needle acording to instructions and get some flights in before you lean it back out again.
Old 05-23-2007, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

There is no visible scar in either the piston or the cylinder. I wasnt the one performing the break in. I recently ordered two kits, one for me and one for my brother. He was the one who screwed up the break in. He started the engine and then screwed the needle until he got the highest rpms he could then he ran full throttle for about 30sec followed y 30 sec of idle repeatedly until it ran out of nitro. Luckily the fuel lines where mislabeled so he had the refill line plugged into the carburetor which helped as the engine died several times within the process as a result of faulty nitro intake, which gave the engine time to cool down. It was not flying, it was sitting on the ground. I suppose he turned the needle 1 1/2 to get it started and then tuned it into max rpm. There was indeed lots oif oil coming out of the muffler as the side of the plane was totaly covered in burnt castor oil. How can I determine if the engine is OK or if its damaged?
Old 05-23-2007, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Since this was on the ground, its unlikely he did any damage. Just fly the engine. The reason to set the needle to the rich side of peak is so that when it leans out in flight, it won't hurt the engine. If you're just on the ground, running the engine at peak won't have the leaning problems you run into in flight. If there's still plenty of oil in the exhaust, and its not blackened, and there's no metal particles in the exhaust, the engine is probably fine.

Brad
Old 05-23-2007, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

There is plenty of oil in the exhaust, its pinkish as the fuel used has got a pink dye and its not blackened. No metal bits. Some of the oil is darker than the rest but in general I see clear pinkish oil. I must add that the altitude here in Bogota is 2600 meters, about 7800ft over sea level, so engines run at about 25% less power than what they usually do at sea level. I don't know if this might be a good sign.
Old 05-23-2007, 11:59 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

It sounds like your brother actually did OK with the break-in process; it's unlikely that any harm was done.
Old 05-24-2007, 12:10 AM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

sounds like your good to go,I don't think your in any trouble at all.
if the engine was quiting evey once and a while and had time to cool down thats a good thing which probably saved it from any destruction.

the main thing is that there was fuel coming out the pipe,when it was running, that is the coolent,the oil in the fuel really.OS engines can take a beating,some engines require alot of break in time and a real gentile touch for the first few runs.
sounds like your brother got a little ahead of himself in his break in.

for safety's sake I would re-run the proper break in procedure as per the instructions like I origonally suggested, and start over, its a simple process and it sounds like you have a good idea how to do it, then run it a little rich for the first few flights then a little leaner each time.both my OS 46's run best about 1 1/4 turn or so with a little fuel out the pipe and are extremely strong runners.

the engine you have is a great little power house, you might want to remind the bro. if he takes care of it, he will have a machine that can last decades or seconds his choice.
they don't include the directions just for packing, my brother would never read his either
Old 05-24-2007, 12:15 AM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

I know, the good thing is that Ill make the proper break in with mine, and we'll be able to compare identical settings to see if any harm is done in the long run.

Is there any way to determine if there is damage to the engine or will he just have to wait?
Old 05-24-2007, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Sounds good to me from your description.
You were luck, fly and enjoy!
Old 05-24-2007, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

I just finished doing a proper break in. The engine got a lot less hot this time, and the oil from the exhaust was clearer than when it was improperly broken in. It seemed to perform ok. As it ran out of nitro, the last second it ran, the rpms peaked and then it stoped. Is suppose this is normal. Is the fact that the oil the first time was darker and with some trails of dark brown and the engine was considerably hotter, a bad sign?
Old 05-24-2007, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

ORIGINAL: plugin
Is the fact that the oil the first time was darker and with some trails of dark brown and the engine was considerably hotter, a bad sign?
Let's just say it wasn't a good sign and it's possible the life of the engine has been shortened somewhat. Now that you've finished running it in, give it another tank but this time when it's at full throttle slowly open (richen) the main needle and listen to the sound as the revs drop. There'll be a point where it'll start to sound as though it's misfiring. That's because it is . This is the ideal mixture to use when you first begin running in an ABC type engine and it'll be somewhere around 2000 revs below peak. It's always wise to add some castor to your fuel for running in too. I use 25% all castor for running in.
Old 05-24-2007, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Im happy to hear that its a possibility but its not certain .Well if it will be as good as new for about 3 years i'll be satisfied, by then i'll have other planes and other engines. I have a tachometer so I can set the engine to whichever revs I want. What is the optimum level?

I dont understand, why should I have to richen it even more? If I richen it a bit more, there wont be any power in the engine to even provide for slow flight. When I richen it for the break in, its barely able to move on the ground. When I lean it for the 10 seconds it should be lean, It takes the revs up to where the plane would taxi fast and maybe it could take off but I doubt the lean setting I go to would provide power for a full flight at full throttle.

I want to stress that when the improper break in was done, the engine wasn't able to reach its 17,000rpm even on the leanest setting because engines at this altitude loose about 25% of their power. In those terms it was probably able to reach 13,000rpm at best.
Old 05-24-2007, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Plugin,
Here's something important that needs to be said. If you run your engine a click or two rich it will last a lifetime. But it only takes one lean run to ruin an engine completely. Tune the engine for the best running and then richen it up a click or two. You should see a small trail of smoke when flying. I always run my engines just a bit rich and I have engines with 500+ flights on them. But one flight with the engine running lean and it can be ruined forever.

Ken
Old 05-24-2007, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

The plane did not fly this way, it sat on the floor. I know for a fact that the exhaust smoked the whole time. Its also probable that my brother didn't get the absolute best tunning possible from the engine, plus the engine was not running on full throttle during the whole tank because he alternated 30 sec full throttle and 30 sec idle.
Old 05-24-2007, 11:58 PM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

when I first ran my OS 46AX for the first few flights and run in there was always some dark/black slime in the exhaust oil,as it became more broken in and I leaned out the engine it seemd to go away and I have not noticed any for a while.
one thing I did do was switch to a OS#8 plug when the stock one wore out it seems to run smoother and idle better.
the #3 is cheaper and is a little hotter temp.
Old 05-25-2007, 01:19 AM
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Default RE: Improper break-in


ORIGINAL: plugin

.....

I want to stress that when the improper break in was done, the engine wasn't able to reach its 17,000rpm even on the leanest setting because engines at this altitude loose about 25% of their power. In those terms it was probably able to reach 13,000rpm at best.
Plugin,


My break-in method is elaborately detailed in [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Tapered%2DBore_Engine_Break%2Din_%2D_Upgraded/m_1850473/tm.htm]this RCU thread[/link].

Had your brother followed it, there would have been no doubt about the good results.


1. The OS A3 is too hot for general running of this engine - you want the #8, or another medium-hot glow-plug.
But when breaking it in somewhat rich, it is OK.

2. Idling the engine during break-in achieves absolutely and utterly nothing!

3. An OS.46AX and most other ABC/ABN/AAC engines are unlikely to sustain any damage at all, if run leaned to maximum RPM (but not leaner), right out of the box. If it was not run leaner than max and with enough castor oil in the fuel, it is probably OK.

4. Check if the engine still shows a small amount of pinch at TDC (the piston 'catches' slightly at the top of the stroke), with the engine at room temperature (20-22ºC/~70ºF). If it does it is OK for sure and even if not, it is an OS and it doesn't care...

5. 17,000 RPM is a fairytale OS tell you, so you would be tempted to buy the engine... You would need an 8.5x6.5N pylon racing 'toothpick'... Oops! prop, to see anything close to this number. And if 16K is exceeded, the PowerBox muffler will disintegrate repeatedly, even if you JB-Weld its parts together...

6. ...And an 8.5x6.5N prop at 17K is just short of 1 HP... Where did the 'other' 0.65 HP (as OS claim) go? Did anybody see them?

7. According to Harry Higley's book, an ABC engine is capable of surviving a lean-run and returning to its old self after cooling down.
I cannot be sure about that... so I will never try it.

8. As you go to a higher altitude, the engine's power goes down, but the prop's drag goes down to the same extent. RPM remains about the same, despite the (even dramatic) power reduction. Thrust is reduced significantly, despite the engine making the same sound pitch...

Old 05-25-2007, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: Improper break-in

Rtfm
Old 05-25-2007, 07:36 AM
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Default RE: Improper break-in


ORIGINAL: roofer

RTFM
Roofer,


And if the manual does not illustrate the best technique and is so generically written that it does not bother even to distinguish between ringed and ABC/ABN engines (that obviously need different break-in techniques)??

Oh, you're saying; "Follow it anyway - it is enough that the engine will survive until the end of the warranty period...".

This engine should survive 400 running hours!... The warranty, on average, will expire after about 40 total hours... Are you sure you are getting what you paid for?


The 'F' in that clause you stated, is probably there, to show what religiously following that manual may lead you to do to the engine...

The [link=http://www.osengines.com/faq/product-faq.html#q2]OS Q&A[/link] specifically contradicts what the break-in instructions in the manual say, in regards to ABN engines.


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