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Old 09-16-2007 | 08:42 AM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

BTW, where is a list of preprogrammed instructions for "unfamiliar situations" going to come from?

You need the list before you encounter them, right.
So you'd need to tell us what they're going to be. That won't work, so.....
We need to list them all for you.
When do you plan to go fly again, 'cause this is gonna take awhile.

See what I mean?

Honest, we're trying to help. And the best way to learn to fly is to learn right away to simply steer the airplane where you want it to go. Everything starts with you learning to make it go where you want it to do. That's what you're needing to practice from your first time on the sticks. Practice moving the plane around in the air to go where you want it to. It's that simple.

I very often tell my student to move from two mistakes high to one mistake high and do some lefts and rights. It's surprising how often simply trying to keep the airplane at a different altitude shows just how little control the student has and how much the airplane is deciding it's course with him "flying" it. The only students I have who have trouble with that simple exercise are the ones who want a list of stick movements for each maneuver.

Flying is an analog exercise, not a digital one. It's touch, not rote.
Old 09-16-2007 | 09:02 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

They say that when humans are young they learn at a tremendously fast rate for one simple reason. They aren't putting it into words. They just watch to see what it looks like. Then they do it. No word processing, no time delay. Heck, they don't even know the words that apply most times.

They say that as we grow to adults, we start to put it all down in words. And when we try to do it, we have to pull up all the words and have to find the ones that apply. Then remember what we thought they meant when we wrote them down. Then figure out if those are really the ones that apply this time. And then figure out any differences in the situation. And then time was up and we had to turn in our papers. Or go clean up the crash site.

I had a kid as a student. For one day. When we did his first flight, I told him to make the airplane go where it was supposed to go. Then I showed him an example. Told him to make the airplane do what I just showed him and said, "you got the airplane". And then we did a bunch of things, one at a time. And about the third thing to do, the airplane was tracking pretty good. And it was tracking very good the second flight. If he was mature enough to have made safe decisions on where and how to fly the model, he'd be flying on his own today. As it is, he flies the big planes with his daddy on the box. He flew his new foamies by himself the next day.

When I showed him before the first flight what the sticks on the TX did, I didn't tell him as much as I showed him with my hand. You know, your hand is an airplane and you twist and turn it in the air. I got him to move the sticks, and I flew my hand to match after going through each stick with appropriate hand movements.

When you're learning, you'll make that big step one day when you won't think in words what you need to do. You'll find yourself looking real hard at the airplane and moving the sticks to point it where the picture in your mind wants it to go.

Maybe that's why flying makes us old guys feel young again.
Old 09-16-2007 | 09:38 AM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

Now that da Rock has finished another novel, I'll just add that if you need to, don't be afraid to ask an instructor to put you a buddy box and work with you to get over spots you are having problems with. This is the time to get the basics down and in the future you'll be very glad you did. The Kadet Senior is a fantastic plane and quite forgiving - I think you'll enjoy flying it.

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Old 09-16-2007 | 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

From darocks first novel
"If you see the airplane's nose coming up and it shouldn't be coming up, you need to move the sticks whatever way keeps that nose from coming up. And that happens if YOU are flying the airplane upwind, downwind, on approach, in a loop, in a turn or taking off or landing.

You don't take 2 or 3 seconds to react to the nose coming up. You simply put it back down where it should be, where you wanted it to be.
Learn to react to the airplane. And that won't take 2 or 3 seconds. Trying to remember the checklist's instructions for the specific situation will. "

It can't take you 2-3 seconds to react, you simply may not have that much time usually before you either hit the ground or pull the wings off. And it all changes if inverted or near trees or ANYTHING else unusual happens. Slow the plane down until your brain flies as fast as the plane.

In full scale we used to watch planes land poorly and then look out off the end of the runway. When asked what we were doing we'd reply "We're waiting for the pilot to land because he sure was behind the plane on that landing".
Old 09-16-2007 | 03:52 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

I may have missed this because there is a lot of reading. There is a possibility that you stalled the elevator which would result in a snap.

I am curious. You state that throttling up on take off the plane turns right? It should turn left due to the torque which would require right rudder. There could be an issue there???

Anyway, I hope you get is sorted out. I have learned the hard way about elevator stalls.
Old 09-16-2007 | 10:55 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

Torque roll. That is a big motor and a HUGE prop for that plane.
Old 09-16-2007 | 11:06 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

Even still shouldn't it roll left??? All of our engines turn right thats why we roll left to take advantage of the torque in a torque roll. I think a torque roll is a vertical manuver?
Old 09-16-2007 | 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

I had to go back and look at the engine he said he had onb this plane....Meyere30 were you being sarcastic???
Old 09-16-2007 | 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

Its not torque - the plane rolled to the right, torque produces a roll to the left. When you hover a plane, you have to add a bit of right aileron to counter the torque produced by the engine/prop. Everything seems to point to a stall. Remember an airfoil will stall at any airspeed and attitude as long as the critical angle of attack is reached, and one wing usually stalls before the other. Just a matter of too much up elevator with too little airspeed.

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Old 09-17-2007 | 01:58 AM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

only thing i can recommend for anyone (considering my limited experience) is to never fly a plane that makes you shake every time you fly it.. if you are too nervous you will make nervous mistakes.. i had a hobbico superstar and i really felt so comfy with it until i put the frame into too much of a bind in a maneuver and the wings snapped, so i jumped right up to an aerobatic plane thinking that i was ready bc i was capable of amazing manuevers with my hobbico.. i flew the aerobatic plane a few times and was always too nervous and it seemed that i was constantly correcting it until i just got tired of it so i got rid of it and got an advanced trainer and i couldn't be more happy to be back in my comfort zone!!! i dont want to fly if i can't enjoy it.. i won't fly if i have to fight it, i want to relax a little more and enjoy the thrill of flight! imo you will be most happy with what you were most comfortable with out of all the planes you have had.. i probably will not go aerobatic ever again, i seem to enjoy scale more anyway, less stress.. i may one day get a 3d plane but who knows right now i am all about some scale planes, i also want to try float planes.. but back on topic, fly only what you enjoy and forget about trying to hurry up and advance into the hobby just enjoy it, like da rock said flying is a privilege that we should enjoy (or something like that)
Old 09-27-2007 | 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

In summary I made 5 mistakes in succession:
1. Did not analyze the first time I got in trouble; just kept on flying. ( This can happen to anyone - I have seen a RC flyer with 50 years experience do this )
2. The approach was bad. Ended up approaching from an angle which consumed my limited abilities until I was too high.
3. Did not make the go around decision fast enough. When way off the approach path; just go around.
4. Ease on the throttle until the airspeed builds up on a go around. ( The sudden thrust increased the elevator effectiveness increasing the AOA beyond stall. )
5. No up elevator; maybe a few clicks of down. The angle of attack quickly went to vertical as the plane flew over our heads.
Some other comments:
Almost every engine/thrust related thing makes the plane turn left accept Gyroscopic Precession which would be right with the nose going up.
The plane had to have tip stalled. One thing I have learned and relearned about tip stalls is that they happen extremely fast; either a model or 100% scale.
Most planes can be stalled and therefore most planes can be tip stalled. It is just a matter of how easy or hard it is.
The right turning on take off was probably a trim / misaligned airframe issue. I am not sure if the rudder trim was spot on.
The 13X6 and 13X5 propellers were close to ideal for me. I had a 13X7 on the other big stik and I was getting into trouble with too much speed.
The OS 55 AX has a lot of torque. You can infer this as the horsepower went up only a little 1.75 versus 1.65 at the same rpm compared to the OS 46 AX.
I believe this engine would drive a 14X4 or 14X5 prop also. Ground clearance would be the problem.
Old 09-27-2007 | 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

ORIGINAL: griesel

I initially set it up for minimum mechanical throw. In close at the servo and way out at the horn. The elevator and the rudder did not
have enough travel so I ended up moving the elevator one hole in at the horn and two holes in at the rudder horn.
It would be much better to move OUT on the SERVO end than IN on the CONTROL HORN.

By doing it the way you did it, you're losing your mechanical advantage - which could lead to flutter.
Old 10-06-2007 | 11:56 PM
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Default RE: Crashed and not exactly sure why

sounds like its trying to low speed snap when you throw the coals to it. When you make an attitude change, ease back into the throttle. youll find it will respond better and have alot less surprises. Good luck! Al

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