I have the GP Ultimate Bipe 40. I've been flying for 7 years. It is my 5th airplane. It is a very nice flyer and I highly recommend it, but not as a second airplane - maybe a third. I agree with the previous recommendations.... a 4-star or Tiger 2 make great second planes.

Biplanes do present a more confusing image in the sky. It is easier to get disoriented. With the GP Ultimate 40 you need to be aware of airspeed and manage the throttle on approach and landing.

Just to clarify because it looked to me like a post or two might have thought otherwise, I (the OP) am not the one that made the simulator post.


Anyway, I've got another question. Can someone recommend a good second plane that has an engine cowl? I don't much care for the looks of open engine planes (I realize looks aren't as important as other things when it comes to learning to fly, so please don't give me that lecture. I do however want to purchase planes I'll enjoy looking at as much as building/flying). I've been looking around a bit but haven't seen anything that struck me as having potential to satisfy both desires.

And again, thank you to everyone for the suggestions and opinions, they are much appreciated.

The Ace Hobby Cloud Dancer 60, H9 Pulse XT, and the World Models LA Racer are 3 second planes that come to mind that have cowlings...

I have been flying for around 5 years now and am completely self taught. Started with a SPAD BUHOR and quickly trashed it. Moved into slow electrics and from there my first Nitro model was an Uproar 40. I flew that thing to death. I was finally doing full speed touch and go's with it before I lost it in a combat flight. That was fun. As far as flying something to the ground goes, I have to admit that a touch and go at about 60 miles and hour is heart pounding.

I don't have a bi plane yet, but am seriously considering and Ultimate. I have flown everything from slow electrics like the slow stick to the giant scale Cap 580 from Great planes. I'm still apprehensible about getting a biplane. Do yourself a favor and don't get the biplane as your second plane. You'll trash it. I'd really recommend the Uproar if you're looking for something forgiving but all out nuts later on. The Twist 3D is a good choice too. Just don't get the biplane.

I've got a ModelTech 20 size Extra with a .Magnum .28 on it. It's a lot of fun to fly and it has a cowl. Handles really well as well and with the 48 inch wing span, it's pretty forgiving. Won't 3D for it's life, but'll do all the regular aerobatics depending on how you set up the CG.

As for cowled second planes?
My third plane, but would have been a nice second plane, was a Seagull Spacewalker II. Gentle flyer, easy to land but quite capable of a full range of aerobatics.

The H-9 Pusle XT was (and still is) my second plane. Do a search on here for second planes. You will find a lot of opinions, but I love my Pulse. We are going to get my son the Tiger 60 for his second plane for Christmas. He and I are going to build the kit together. We decided on the Tiger based on info from the people on RCU. Have fun with your flying!

The pulse looks like a nice plane, but I can only find it in ARF versions. That'd be fine, but I would still want to find a plane I can build from a kit this winter, even if it's not a second plane :\ Decisions decisions!

Build the Four Star 40 or 60 and customize it with a cowl if you like. I try to put a personal touch into every build so noone will have one exactly like mine... well at least not at my feild.

How about the Great Planes T-Craft 20?
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXUJ25&P=0
One of our club members has one and says it's a good intermediate plane

For your first kit, a 4* will be hard to beat . I built the forty and it taught me more than any other plane I have . I have 3 bipes ,2 SkyBolts and a Ultimate . if I could only take one to fly , it would be the 4*
Just started building a 4* .60 and it just seems to fall together . I built the .40 in 2 weeks and I believe the .60 will even go faster. The 4 * will teach you how to build and teach you the skills needed to get to that bipe.

Hi, I see this is a old thread, but can somebody please tell me if the sig hog can actually be used as a 2nd plane? I have a glider which i have been flying for some time. I have also been flying on simulators for about 5 years. Im just concerned that simulators arent as close to the real thing as you would think. And for the fact that depth perception is way different on the simulator. I am aiming towards a Pitts model 12 (50cc)
Thanks!
Riaan

It all depends on the pilot. For most people a Bipe isn't a good idea but I had one student that maidened in one day and after a couple weeks could pretty much fly anything. He was my only student I ever had that was like that though, the others took a long time before they were able to fly anything more then a low wing type of trainer. A glider isn't exactly a first plane, even a powered one. You may want to try something like a 60 size Pulse {Horizon} or a 4 Star {SIG} before you jump into a powered Bipe. If you fly at a club of some sort where you are you should try flying a low wing powered plane on a buddy box to see how well you can handle it before you go to the Bipe. The Sim is a big help but nothing really like the real thing, it gets your brain and fingers trained together, it's a help though. Good choice on wanting the Pitts, an Ultimate may be another good choice.

Thanks Gray Beard, I am quite confident at controlling a tiger 2 & Pitts python on G3.5, I am only 15 and I am going to build a Pitts model 12 over the Summer, not that I intend to fly it immediately but I really can't afford a lot of planes to get to it. I also fly FSXnot that it helps, I just love planes etc. And i am quite technical about things. I fully understand how to operate a plane but that is something totally different in practice![] And I doubt that somebody is goint to let a teenager fly one of their low wing trainers, even on buddy Box. My only idea is to buy a second hand low wing around here and see how well I do!

Knowing nothing about the UAE I don't know if you have clubs there or not?? Here, letting students fly our planes on the buddy box is nothing new at all, does depend on the student though. Age of the student means nothing either, that student I mentioned was only 12 years old at the time and the guys at the field were even letting him fly there 40% stunt planes. Fly, not take off and land. A lot of the guys that I fly with have trainers of different types or old planes they will set up on a buddy box so people can try to fly them to get a feel for it. As I tell my own students, they can do nothing with the plane that I can't get them out of, it isn't going to crash. Ask real nice and I bet someone there will box you up and let you give it a try. You may not have the money to be buying planes but do you have the money to crash your dream plane because you didn't follow the learning curve?? The Hog Bipe is a very good plane. The Sim is a great learning tool. They just don't teach you to fly, they aren't real but they are a big help, I let my students borrow mine so they can get there brain and fingers working together.
If you just have to have a Hog then by all means build one, it's a great plane and a fun build. Most people don't build bipes because they have to build that extra wing and learn how to use an incidence meter, setting them up is a bit harder then a single wing plane. Myself, I enjoy building them and spent several years building and flying nothing but bipes. I no longer build them but it's not because I don't like them, they are a pain to haul or set up. Right now I am back to flying my little 60 size Aeromaster, it takes up way more room in my van then I like.

So do you think I might be able to get off the ground with a hog, on buddy box or so? Here are 2 Clubs in Dubai and Thanks a lot! I feel a lot better now, I will try to find somebody willing to let me fly a trainer etc. I have a spektrum DX6i, which I bought when I visited South Africa last year in April. I buy all my own stuff, and I try to convince my dad to help me out.
But thanks a lot!
Riaan

On a BB the instructor is going to get it off the ground for you. He will have the master TX and ask you if you are ready, you will say yse and he will say, OK, you got it. At that point he will flip his trainer switch and you will be flying the plane. As soon as you get in trouble {I let my students try to get untroubled} he will let the switch go and say, OK, I have it. A real trainer is my first choice, not the HOG. Most instructors have there own trainer so you shouldn't have to buy a plane, just buy your own fuel. After the solo it's up to you to get your own plane. I let my students use my trainer until they get one. There is a learning curve to flying, trainer, low wing trainer then something with even more pep. It all depends on the student. I trained the 12 year old boy and a 60 year old man at the same time. The boy could solo on his first day, it took the old fart two months, that,s about normal, you were born with a computer and joy stick in your hand. Most of us older guys didn't even have TV so it's all new to us. Everything depends on you the student. Other then this kid I have never seen anyone learn to fly that quick.The kid doesn't fly any longer, he is more into girls and other things right now. The old fart has become a very good pilot and learning as much IMAC piloting as he can. No one here can say what you can or can't do, it's all about yourself.
Good lord, I'm preaching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]]]]

I have heard the Sig hog bipe flies great...

I would say the question for you is can you put a plane right where you want it on landing? Level wings..and a nice gentle flare at the end? Thats what floaty bipes like ......precise landings......... take off rolls can be tricky, I avoid hard surfaces,when grass is available.

If you like to build and rebuild you are definitely ready !

The real key to success though is keeping it flying slow and level at landing, but no stalls of course !

Thanks Gray Beard and Foodstick, you have given me quite an insight into what I will have to be aiming for and what I will have to do to get there. I think I will try to get in touch with somebody at the Club. I have enough time on my hands to rebuild a broken plane, so I think for now I will Build the Pitts M 12 kit, as a point to work towards, and I will figure out how I can get Started at the club.Oh and Gray Beard thanks for the encouragement, it does seem like a lot of people just want to mark you by what they think you can do! Thanks a lot!
Riaan

No problem, I went from a trainer to the Up-Roars and got right into fun fly events after solo. I was told by the peanut gallery how crazy I was and how many planes I was going to crash. There were a lot of repairs but nothing that went into the trash can. No, I wasn't ready for them but I managed. I'm glad I didn't go to a bipe right away though. They don't take near the pounding that a single wing fun fly plane will. I think my 3rd or 4th plane was a scratch built Fokker D-VII, I built it from plans I bought from Model Airplane News plans department. In the air they aren't too much different then any other type of plane but I didn't think I was ever going to get it off the ground. Short coupled planes are squirrels on the ground at take off. Landing wasn't too bad, I just flew it about 10 inches off the ground and cut power and it settled in. I built two of them at the same time and gave one to my nephew. I just gave that plane away a year ago, then it finally died!!!! As long as you are having fun it's all good!!

I started RC airplanes this past December. I bought a Seagull Decathlon 40 size. everyone has said - NO, don't fly it unless you want to crash it. So, I bought a Great Planes Escapade. very fast plane. first landing was rough - second was good - 3rd I greesed it. Maybe it was all beginners luck. I soon then purchased an Avistar trainer - I ended up converting it to a tail dragger during the build. Both planes I have now crashed and rebuilt and rebuilt and rebuilt. all the crashes have been due to dead sticks except for the last one which I really damaged my Escapade (need 3 weeks of repairs). Yesterday, I decided to be brave and take out the Decathalon. Yes, it was everything that everyone has said - ground control difficult - but "I did it". It flew and landed with no problems. Actually, once I got the plane trimmed it flew wonderfully. So, this may not be the best advice to give but by all means - give it a try.

Oh, I flew nitro helicopters for a few years before airplanes - maybe that helped in orientation and rudder control. I fly with my rudder all the time with the helicopters and I found out that I fly the rudder all the time with the airplane.

[ Nice Nrad!
Oh and Gray Beard, I'm starting to wonder If i shouldn't mayebe build a funfly plane instead of the Pitts, because i would probably be able to fly it sooner, I have been looking at the Bruha made by Traplet

We're all different with difffering capacity to learn and aptitudes steered in various directions from childhood.

I've been building planes since the age of 8, but these were mostly freeflight and control line. In freeflight you build a lot because they go up up and away.....start again.

I have played sim games since the commodore 64 was around so the aptitude for flying has been built in for a long time.
In Feb this year I took up RC flying with a SAPAC Wilga. I wa told its a tail dragger, you'll never take off or land the thing without help.

well I managed, but what I also did was reinforce bad habits, and those are hard to undo.
So yeah Sims help youa lot but they also forgive bad habits which real planes don't like. Big problem.

I decided in March to take some lessons because I wanted to get a 2n opinion on techniqiue and also have someone telling me where I am going wrong and what I am doing right. 20 flights later I was a solo pilot with proficiency at Silver level. here we have Solo, Bronze, Silver, GOld, Instructor. I'm headding for gold with my stik soon.

Point is not to blow my own horn but as practical example of often what people say you should do and what you can do being vastly separated.

A structured approach is always advantageous because it allows time to correct bad habits and learn good technique and drill it in. From there, a secondplane can be anything. It just depends how willing you are to be a novice and learn learn learn on a trainer.

A bloke at my club said to me, if you can fly a trainer well and do anythin with it from rolls to loops to cuban eights, stall turns etc, ou can fly anything. The value of the trainers is you can learn all these moves with the safety of a forgving airframe thats cheap and easy to repair. It teaches you how to repair aircraft and in sme case, how not to build an aircraft when you get that far down the line.

So no matter what your aptitude for flying is, I will always recommend a trainer first and once you have mastered (and I mean mastered not just take off fly in circles and land) that, you can fly anything.

A trainer allows you to try out the characteristics of almost anything by adjusting weight, CG, wing dihedral, dar if you get a ORA Transformer you can even go from high wing to low wing in the link of an eye.

Trainer first, then the sky is your domain.

Oh, sims are good but way overated. ou simply donot get the feeling of movement that controlling a real rc plane invokes causing temporary paralysis when things go wrong. Sims are nice for learning stick actions but are pretty useless for helping you become a good pilot. To be a good pilot you need talent but mostly you need stick time.

You guys are stuffing me with so much info that i really need at the moment! Thanks! I have just worked off about 2 years of doubt! Thanks a lot again! Oh and TimBle, over the last few days I have been telling myself to just get a Trainer and call it quits, but the only problem is that I have to go through a trainer, then a low wing etc. And I am not financially backed at all exept for doing my chores etc. SO i think I might actually save money by getting something like the Transformer, not because I wan't to rush to a low wing but purely because I cant buy a low wing after the trainer, for about another year Trainers in Dubai are about $1000, mayebe a bit less but thats about it. So i will try and order a plane from the USA (with the help of my dad) and when I do eventually feel like moving on I think I can sell it here for a pretty good price! (mayyyybbe!)

I guess a small problem here. Sig Hog Bipes are no longer available (atleast not from tower anyway). There is the Super Skybolt but I tried it on the sim and it loses a lot of lift when banked and bounces a lot if you dont keep up the speed so atleast I was not comfortable with it.

I second the orientation problem though. That is why I avoided the Reactor Bipe (and because it is way too small at 48"). Note that this was to be my third airplane

I had my eyes set on a World Models' Buckers Jungman but decided to go for a Reactor 46-60 (mainly due to the transport-store-two-wings problem)

Except for the scale-like appearence, monoplanes are probably the way to go for a second airplane because they are more rugged and forgiving

Ameyam

Money: if a trainer that cost $100.00 in the states is $1000.00 there then how are you going to get the Pitts 50cc. The GP ARF here in the states is $600.00 just for the plane. Then comes engine, servos, radio and gear plus all the other little things that are required. There is a very good article in Fly RC, June 2010 magazine of this plane that can give you an idea of the cost. The Tower Up-Roar kit is $50.00 and it only requires a small OS .46 engine to make it come alive. They only require standard servos and a small battery to fly them. I think the ARF cost about $100.00. If you can go to a library and see if they can get you a copy of the Fly RC and read up on the Pitts. It really is nice but you better start saving your money, the servos are about $100.00 a piece and it takes a bunch of them. Just something else to think about.