mdavis203

That's what I was thinking... Airtronics is a no-brainer. But then again, I have almost zero experience in this hobby. What do the Futaba 7-channel or the Spektrum 7-channel have over the Airtronics that would make me want to pay more for a radio that has 1 less channel than the RDS8000? Does the Airtronics have less features or something?

mdavis203

So here's a little exercise that shows the three radios that seem to most closely fit my needs for the forseeable future. Again, forgive my over-simplification. I'm new.


Airtronics RDS8000 $230 (Transmitter and receiver only at Tower Hobbies)
Pros: Least expensive. 8 channels (as opposed to 7 for the other two)
Cons: ?

Futaba T7C $280 (Transmitter and receiver only at Tower Hobbies)
Pros: ?
Cons: Limited and expensive selection of receivers. 1 less channel than RDS8000.

Spektrum DX7 $340 (Transmitter, receiver, and 3 servos at Horizon Hobby. I don't guess you can buy it without servos?)
Pros: Wide selection of receivers (Haven't researched this personally, just repeating what I've heard.)
Cons: Most expensive radio. 1 less channel than RDS8000.

Can you guys expand on this and fill in the blanks?

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

The following points are merely my opinion of how the 2.4Ghz radio market is shaking out. Many other posters will have differing opinions and I hope they will share them here.

Futaba's Marketing Problems

Futaba's problems with 2.4Ghz are likely to be far more long lasting than whatever trouble their service bulliten concering "Zero ID" transmitters should have caused. The 6 EX FASST and 7C FASST are both basically good, solid transmitters (at least if one assumes said transmitter has an ID programmed into it). Competitors' transmitters offer more features in the same price ranges (DX6i > 6 EX, DX7 and RDS8000 > 7C), but long time Futaba users would likely overlook a few bullet points for the sake of familiarity.

One big obstacle to high volume FASST sales is Futaba's receiver line-up. The R607FS and the R617FS receivers are both $100 receivers, and they're the low end of the line for full range FASST receivers. Both Spektrum/JR and Airtronics offer full range 6+ channel receivers at the $79.99 price point, making them more affordable when adding additional receivers for trainer and sport planes.

Another big obstacle that will haunt Futaba as 2.4Ghz systems continue to evolve was their choice of servo connections on the upcoming R616FFM 2.4Ghz FASST park flyer micro receiver. Futaba outfitted it with their stupid micro connectors that nobody uses in a misguided attempt to bolster the sales of Futaba's own micro servos. Even loyal Futaba fans don't like the non-standard servo interface, it's simply two constricting to be locked into using only one or two models of servo without the hassle of adapter plugs. Futaba's first park flyer FASST receiver will most likely be still-born upon arrival.

The third big obstacle to widespread 2.4Ghz FAAST adoption will likely be the bundling of the R6014FS receiver with midrange products like the newly announced Futaba 10C. The 10C radio system won't be inexpensive at $599.99 for TX and RX without servos, but it's a nice looking radio with a lot of features. If you want to fly a second plane with your new $600 radio, however, you'll need to spend 1/3rd again the cost of the system just on a second receiver. You either spend $200 per shot on additional R6014FS receivers, or spend $100 per shot on the entry level 7-channel receiver so three channels on your new $600 radio will be unusable.

I guess I'd sum up most of the reasons why I'm not too interested in any of the Futaba FASST radio systems is because the Futaba FASST receiver lineup is unappealing to me as a sport pilot. They have a $60 park flyer receiver that won't fit any servos I own, they have a $100 basic 7-channel full range receiver, or a $200 14-channel receiver I don't need.

I have no doubt that the high end radios (10C, 12FGA, 12Z, 14MZ) are all going to be great platforms, they're just more radio than most pilots need. The entry level FASST radios like the 6EX and 7C aren't bad, but they're outgunned by the competition. Combine this with only 3 receiver choices that range from useless to merely overpriced, and you have a family of products that just aren't very appealing.

Forget about the Zero ID glitch that affected a small portion of early shipping 6 EX and 7C FASST transmitters, Futaba's whole FASST product lineup is poorly conceived and they are being outmarketed by smarter, more agile competitors.

Spektrum and JR Market Overview

With the addition of the DX6i, Horizon Hobby can offer a very complete line of 2.4Ghz DSM2 transmitters. The DX6i, DX7, JR9303 2.4, and JR 12X 2.4 make for a very solid line-up of transmitters and it is well complimented with a decent array of DSM2 receivers. Horizon Hobby is already shipping park flyer receivers under the Spektrum name in the $49 to $59 price range, and they have a 6-channel full range DSM2 receiver available for $79.99.

The DX7 is a solid transmitter offering, and it does boast features that the RDS8000 doesn't such as:

-20 model memory versus 10 model memory
-8 character model naming versus 3 character model naming
-Model Matching

I don't know that Model Matching is as big of a deal as many other users think it is. I've been using a computer radio for three seasons now and I've never tried to fly on the wrong model programming before. In my experience, having a computer radio with a good display that is easy to use will normally prevent you from trying to fly on the wrong model setting. The DX7's 8 character model naming ought to be enough for the all-but-braindead pilot, but Model Match is a good failsafe feature.

The RDS8000's benefits versus the DX7 are a bit more obvious:

-An 8th channel
-No binding plug needed for receiver binding
-Available without servos for far, far less money
-8 channel receivers available for the price of Spektrum's 6 channel receivers.

Most Spektrum owners will tell you that the binding plug is no big deal. I hear plenty of stories out at the field of club members who couldn't find their binding plugs, however, and they had to run out at the last minute and buy another one or borrow one before they could finish setting up their plane. The pricing difference is partially a matter of the DX7's flight pack, but I'm comfortable in asserting those four DS-821 included with the DX7 aren't really worth $150 to most pilots.

One of the nice things about the RDS8000 that is a little less obvious at first glance is the variety of distribution it enjoys versus the Spektrum/JR 2.4Ghz radios. The three biggest hobby distributors in the United States are Hobbico, Horizon Hobby, and Global Hobby. The Spektrum/JR lines are only distributed by Horizon Hobby while Futaba and Airtronics are both distributed by Hobbico (mostly Futaba) and Global Hobby (mostly Airtronics).

My concern as I need to purchase additional receivers and/or accessories is pricing. Hobbico products are sold through Tower Hobbies and sales, rebates, and volume discounts are common there. Global Hobby products are sold through Hobby People and sales, rebates, and volume discounts are common there. Horizon Hobby, on the other hand, rarely offers discounts, sales, or rebates on any of their products. I would be concerned about ever being able to get "a deal" of any kind on Spektrum/JR radio accessories simply because that would go against the grain of Horizon's marketing practices.

I admire Horizon's focus on supporting their network of hobby dealers rather than maximizing their sales volumes and selling directly in a large way like their competitors do. What is good for my local Hobbytown USA store owner isn't necessarily good for me, the consumer, however. I try to support my local hobby store when the premium to do so isn't too great, but locking myself into a Spektrum/JR radio system would put me at the mercy of local hobby store due to Horizon's Minimum Advertised Pricing (MAP) restrictions and consumers-come-second dealer focus.

I'd suggest that Horizon's current Buy-One-Get-One sale on extra receivers purchased with radios is a unique situation where Horizon is trying to lock up market share and respond to increasing market pressures without having to outright discount their products. Again, it's smart marketing and dealer friendly, but it simply confirms my belief that we won't be seeing a $59.99 7-channel full range DSM2 receiver anytime soon. Horizon wants to maintain their market lead and their profit margins. Giving away one or two extra receivers is a smart way to accomplish both. I'd mentioned that Futaba is getting their asses handed to them with regard to marketing, and that's as good an example as any.

Airtronics is trying to capture market share through value pricing because they're a little late to the game. Horizon is trying to press their market leadership and put as much product out as possible before the competition can even get up to bat. Futaba is floundering around with feature-poor transmitters, Zero-ID service bullitens, and an expensive and poorly conceived receiver lineup. Hitec is still trying to come up with a strategy to allow them to stay in the game.

At the end of the day, Airtronics is the company that is trying to get ahead by offering RC pilots more for less. That will likely be their strategy going forward and that is why I'm most comfortable betting on Airtronics both for now and in the future.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

Biged that was a tite(excellent)review, very informative, having more information is a big help chosing the next generation equipment.

Missileman

I agree the Airtronics at current pricing is a no brainer.
I also think it is only a matter of time before cross compatable receivers come out so prices on them will eventually come down.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Airtronics receivers for the RDS8000 are priced at $79, which makes them one of the lowest cost 2.4 Ghz receivers on the market today. We interviewed the Airtronics booth at the Toledo show and there are a few things in the works for Airtronics regarding 2.4 Ghz products. First up will be a micro sized 2.4 receiver for park and foam flyers. They also "slipped" that they are working on a 10 channel RDS radio as well.

Ken

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Mike Greenshields from Global Hobby had mentioned a little bit about the 10-channel RDS replacement for the old Stylus radio system in the transmitters, receivers, and servos forum. Their first radio out of the gate for spread spectrum is such a strong offering that it's exciting to think about what else they'll be cooking up.

Rumor had it that Airtronics would be displaying an early prototype of the 10-channel radio at Toledo, Ken, did you get a chance to check it out at all?

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Yes and no. Yes the mock up was there at the show, and no I didn't get to see it. When Minnflyer and I were at the Airtronics booth to do the interview the mockup was elsewhere on a photoshoot (at least I think that's where they said it was), and unfortunately I didn't get back by the booth later to check it out.

Ken

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

There's a great review in Model Airplane News on the RDS 8000 by Airtronics. I haven't read a bad review in any of these magazines, but they really went all out ranting and raving about this radio. It's the May 2008 edition, on page 80.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I'm working on finishing up my review of this radio for RCU as well. It really is a great radio. It's basically the same radio as the RD8000 72 Mhz radio updated to 2.4 Ghz. I've had a RD8000 for several years and it's a rock solid radio, and the RDS8000 follows right along in those footsteps.

Ken

mdavis203

Nice writeup, Biged. That pretty much makes up my mind with which 2.4 to look at when I get ready to purchase.

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

Well, mdavis203, I'm glad you and bigtim found it helpful. It's a little weird to write that much opinion on such a hotly debated topic like spread spectrum radios and not have anybody at all challenge my analysis.

I can't decide if my analysis was too spot-on to argue with, or simply so long winded that anybody who might wish to challenge it gave up and never finished reading it all!

I've been shopping and reading and studying the subject, and my synopsis above just summarizes what I've found.

mdavis203

Your analysis laid out facts and figures and stayed away from touchy-feely opinion issues. It's hard to argue with that.

Like you said, Airtronics offers more for less. I won't need more than 10 models in memory at a time. I can easily deal with a three-character naming convention. And, while model-matching seems like a nice feature, it's not worth the extra coin and one less channel to me. I'm going with the RDS 8000.

old n slow

OK, now it's time for a dumb question from a almost brain dead senior citizen. I currently have two 4channel Futaba radios. Will the servo and switch plugs ( Futaba ) work with the Airtronics 2.4 receiver without modifications to the plugs. Sure would hate to have to buy all new servos and I really like the RDS8000. My electrical or electronic expertise is limited to light switches and the tv. Still working on vcr programing.[sm=regular_smile.gif]

Missileman

The answer is no but the modification is simple. You will have to cut the little plastic key tab off of the connector so it will fit the slots in the Airtronics receiver.
Electronically they are the same.
In essence it is so easy to trim the tab off so it will fit that the real answer is yes.

old n slow

So, all I have to do is trim the little tab and the wires are the same; pos, neg and the signal one. As my grands say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well duhhhhhh.
But then always been told that no question is dumb if you don't know the answer.
Thanks MM

Missileman

That is very true indeed.

mdavis203

Lovely. I've been waiting on Tower Hobbies to get the RDS8000 back in stock so I can order one. (Couldn't use the discount code on backordered items.) Even though they're not going to have more until toward the end of the month, they just jacked up the price from $230 to $285 a couple of days ago. They could have at least waited until they had it back in stock before they increased the price by like 25%. [:@]

mdavis203

Now it's the old price again. Weird. [sm=confused.gif]

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

Airtronics has a full page ad in the new AMA Park Pilot magazine, advertising the new 2.4GHz FHSS RDS8000 for $230, so I doubt Tower will hike the price up higher than that anytime soon.

volracer

Hobby People (.net) has them listed for $230.

mdavis203

That's why it blew my mind when I saw it listed for $285 for a couple of days. I swear I wasn't drinking. I even have the email from Tower saying that was the price when I emailed them asking about it.

mdavis203

OK. I got my Airtronics RDS8000 in. ($195 with free shipping!!) I started to install the receiver in my cub, but it appears that the plugs on my servos don't fit into the receiver. [:@] I have Futaba servos in my plane (along with a Futaba receiver, currently). Will I have to change the servos out or get adapters? Also, can I use the switch that's currently installed in the plane (battery too, for that matter), or will I have to change it out? Forgive the stupid questions, but I'm new and not sure about how universal all the components are.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

No, you can use the Futaba servos with the Airtronics reciever. All you need to do to make them fit is shave off the tab on the Futaba servo plug. After that they will plug directly in to the Airtronics reciever.

Ken

mdavis203

I was hoping it was that easy. So do I have to worry about getting them going in backwards? What about the switch and battery? Are they OK, too?