ok, I'm still a relative newbe, and I've read about pinned hinges and the thread about installing CA hinges. I presently own RTF airplanes but the "next" plane I get I plan on going the ARF or kit plane since I'd rather collect airplanes then transmitters. so my question is what is the perferred way to hinge control surfaces and what is the benifet from going one way VS the other? how are pinned hinges different?

A lot of the ARF's out now use CA hinges. They work fine, and, if installed correctly are excellent and easy to install. All of my planes, including my Seagul Super Star 120 have the CA hinges installed.

I've only had one CA hinge fail on me and that was my fault. I applied CA twice to one side of the hinge and it failed fairly quickly after I did the installation. I ended up cutting all the hinges and re-installing them.

CGr

I myself prefer CA hinges. Too easy to get glue into the pins so I don't use the pinned ones. And I glue and sand two toothpicks through each CA hinge to help hold them in place.

Ok, if you want to know my "preferred" hinges I would tell you to use Robart Hinge Points. But to answer your question here, you can use either hinge method. As CGRetired stated CA hinges will last a long time if the are installed properly. I've used CA hinges on a lot of planes all the up to a 120 size Dave Patrick Ultimate Bipe. The Hangar 9 Sundowner is a 180 sized plane and it comes with CA hinges as well. RCU member Minnflyer created a great How-to that will walk you through properly installing CA hinges, [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=55]Installing CA Hinges[/link] . Most of the planes I build I will seal the hinge gap with covering material to get better performance, and when this is done it gives more security to a CA hinge install. I've been flying for 12 years now and I've never had a CA hinge fail on me.

Pinned hinges can be used as well, but they do take a little more work to install than the CA hinges but not so much that you should be afraid of them. Keeping glue out of the hinge line is a simple matter of applying vasoline or a drop of oil to the hinge.

I would say that within the context of this forum (Beginners) using CA hinges would be the way to go. They are great for 40-60 sized planes and are easier to install.

Ken

I have been using CA hinges for more than 20 years and never had a failure. I never use pinned hinges anymore (Except for Robart Hinge Points on very large models)

I recently bought a plane at an auction that has pinned hinges and I am appalled at the size of the gaps those things leave. You need SOME gap with CA hinges, but nowhere near what those pinned hinges left.

I wrote this article a while back on the proper way to install CA Hinges, read it, and follow it to the letter:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=55]Installing CA Hinges[/link]

You can install pinned hinges and hinge points with no gap, but it takes a lot of work. You have to recess the hinge and pay a lot of attention to the shape of the recess, the LE of the surface and so on.

In theory, hing points and pinned hinges can result in a better control system. Properly done, pinned hinges have basically 0 resistance to movement, while even the best CA hinges will resist movement from center a little bit. You can tell if pinned hinges are in right when the control surface flops around like crazy when the pushrod is disconnected.

All that said, CA hinges are so much easier to do correctly, and on just about all smaller models, the servos are plenty powerful enough to handle the small resistantce of the hinge, it's just not worth it to me to use anything besides CA hinges anymore on smaller models. I haven't done pinned hinges in years.

(oh, if you make a minor mistake with CA hinges, it's no big deal. But a minor alignment mistake with pinned hinges makes the surface much harder to move and is much worse than a minor alignment issue with CA hinges).

thanks for the replys, looks like CA hinges are the way to go. I read your "how to" thread, thanks for the info. I'm going to be assembling a wattage cessna 165 my wife picked up for $20.00 at a sale somewhere, that will take the guess work out of the hinges.

Just remember one thing. Never apply the CA twice. Do your 5 - 7 drops per side and do NOT go back and apply more.

CGr.

I really like the ease of use factor on the CA hinge. Had a failure at the filed on pined hinges, they pulled out of the wook, re-hinged the elevator and rudder in a few minutes.

When I do an ARF now with CA hinges I go back and seal the hinge gap with covering material, keeps the oil out and adds security.

Can you tell what kind of hinge was used here? One shot of the elevator, the other of the ailerons at the hinge.

This also improves performance.

Did you seal the gaps or something? That looks nice!! Nice and straight and with no visible gap.

CGr.

Looks like a hinged pin to me.
Just kidding, I figured the picture was to show hinge pins can be installed with no gap.
I used hinge pins in my kit built Kadet Senior and there was no gap on that plane either. Minnflyer bought the plane at an auction and the gap is not a testiment to hinge pins (although it seems he implied that) it is poor installation by the builder.
sportrider_fz6- Use whatever comes with the airplane. alot of kits come with epoxy hinges and I haven't had a problem with those either. I like the ease of CA hinges though.

I really like the radio south CA hinges (stiff, blue, not slotted). Only fooled with hinge points once years ago and used to like the small no-pin nylon epoxy hinges but today it will be CA hinges. Because I intend to build from a foam wing kit soon and don't want to risk damage to the foam I will be doing the hinge point thing again and will likely consult this link again when I do.

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/inform...ints/index.htm

Perhaps you will find that useful. BTW, the site is very nice and informative on a number of RC topics and worth poking around on.

Regards,

Clay

Ok, someone correct me if I have it wrong..

I see "pinned hinges" being used where people mean "pin hinges" or "hinge pins".

"Pinned hinges" can include CA hinges, where someone has elected to insert a metal or wooden "pin" through the wood to hold the material in place.
Often toothpics are used.

"Pin hinges" or "hinge points", are dowl like ( usually plasitic ) hinges that are inserted into holes drilled into the control surface and wing.

The two are NOT the same thing.

I prefer PIN hinges, over PINNED hinges.

Thanks Forgot about the most important part!! Increases performance and decreases flutter if you get up there in speed too

Richard

It has nothing to do with flutter

I assumed (I know ) he was refering to something like this:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD941&P=ML
Or this:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXD944&P=ML
both of which pivot on a pin.
Although you are correct, a pinned hinge does make me think any hinge that is installed and then pinned to keep it from ever coming loose.

True story.
Last winter I built two Kadet kits. I modified both to have barn door ailerons. On one (my wife's) I installed hinge points. On the other (my Brother's) I installed CA hinges. Don't ask why, it's just what I did. I've never had a CA hinge fail either. After about 10 or so flights, his hinges fell apart. I didn't even know that CA hinges were actually a plastic piece with fiber around them. The fiber part that is on the outside (that actually absorbs the glue and bonds with the wood) was still glued securely to the wood on the TE of the wing. The smooth plastic inside part of the hinge was sticking out of the aileron. This occured on all of the hinges at once. Actually, one broke loose first, no doubt, which set in motion a chain reaction in which they all gave way. The plane was crashed and rebuilt. I wish I had pictures, and maybe my Dad or Brother do.
I guess I always assumed that the hinges were just fiber all the way through. Must have been a bad batch of hinges where the fiber didn't get securely attached to the plastic inside structure.

I will continue to use CA hinges, no doubt, but not on anything big anymore.
JMO

I had a similar incident with CA hinges. Not in flight though. My oldest daughter, not watching what she was doing, kicked the elevator on my Super Stearman, no damage to the airplane itself but it stripped the fiber covering off of all the hinges and pulled them right out.
I never worried about pinning my hinges until this happened and I saw how easily the hinge can be broken loose.

Yep. Running a toothpick or two through both halves of the hinge would definitely keep it from flying apart as easily.

That is exactly what happened to me on the elevator and rudder of a plane I purchased second hand.

I thought that the builder had installed poor plastic hinges, but now that I think of it, it is exactly as you describe...

The "inner" part of the CA hinge was still in the control surface, shiny and smooth.

The fibers were left in the elevator and rudder along with the CA...

The plane is no more.

The hinges used in the photos above were by Dewey Broberg, better known as Dubro small pinned hinges. No pinning with toothpicks required. Just lightly score the plastic surface with an exacto knife a dozen times on each surface and install with epoxy. They may be ripped in half at a crash, but they have never failed in flight. This plane is still in primer, finished in 3/4 oz glass and polyester resin. At the hinge line it is shaped as a ball and socket with the pin of the hinge inset into the ball so the gap is very small yet allows the surface to move.

I have had the CA hinges fail from just a slight bump to the surface. But I use them too on slow small stuff.

Whew!

This gets confusing even for the non-neophyte!

This is a "pinned hinge" ---> [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD944&P=ML]Pinned[/link]
This is a "CA" hinge that can also be "pinned" ---> [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK110&P=ML]CA hinge[/link]
This is a "PIN hinge" ( aka hinge point ) ---> [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXET54&P=7]Hinge Point[/link]

The three are all different.

I'm not the pro you guys may be but I have build a few planes and nothing big. But after tinkering around with several hinge types I believe any one of them might be the one I would pick for some application. As far as I know I've seen posts from knowledgable builders over time that have had failures with every one of them and others never have a failure with any of them. Its a mechanical part and doggone it; any of them can fail.

But in both kinds of pin hinges; pinned or point - you need to keep the glue out. And on the CA you need to get the glue in and in good.



Sorry, couldn't resist,

Clay