Greetings from London,

I am trying to use a Turbex 2 electric starter - it has a silicon rubber adapter which can be fitted to the starter two ways:
(a) open cup like side on the outside
(b) cup like side on the inside - leaving the small 1cm hole facing out

I am attempting to start a OS 70 Surpass with a wooden 12X6 prop attached. The prop is attached using a Great Planes aluminium safety prop nut.

My question: Which one of the following is the right way to use the starter

- orientation (a) ? in which case the rubber is pushed onto the wooden face of the prop. I have started the engine (once) like this but this has left marks on the face of the propeller and (worse still) caused the whole body to vibrate (the prop has also spun off once to my horror!)

-orientation (b) ? in which the prop nut is "squeezed" into the rubber 1cm opening and then the starter is switched on.

Sorry for the long winded mail - I am new to this and would like to provide as much information as possible

Thanks in advance for your help

-Arun

you use the small hole, but they dont last long on prop nuts, the hole is more for clearing the nut on the starter its self.
when using propnuts you normaly flick start.
NEVER use the starter on the prop its self

putting the starter on the hub or nut is the wrong way to do things as it stalls the starter, a better way is to make sure the prop isnt against its compression, and then start the starter and touch it to the hub/nut, dont push too hard, if the engine locks you dont want to bend the con rod ( you'll also see the spinner melt and rubber fly everywhere ), small taps that turn the engine over once or twice are the best way untill it starts, if you've got a very stubborn ening with the needle settings wrong you can sometimes use the starter and play with the settings at the same time, bad practice tho.

PS i HATE starters, a good engine will always flick start and its kinder to it.

you also still have to prime the engine first before using the starter, or its like making your car engine rev at 5K before any fuel or oil has got in it

I'd say whatever works. Since it sounds like neither of those work, you can try to pick up a replacement starting cone that has a smaller cone-shaped opening that better fits your spinner nut. Or you can replace the spinner nut with something that fits the cone better.

On thing about the vibration, no matter which way you have things, if the starter is out of alignment with the crankshaft, you get that vibration. Try moving your hand around to change the angle of the starter to the engine, you might find the vibration suddenly goes away.

As a side note, you usually shouldn't find yourself cranking away with the starter motor anyway. If the engine doesn't start pretty quickly, there is usually some other issue. (usually just as simple as priming the engine first).

Thanks for those good suggestions guys!

While using a chicken stick I once experience a kick back that broke my prop. Although this was due to improper engine preparation and not the hand starting method per say, it scared the hell out of me and I switched to an electric starter in order to "keep my distance"

If I understand correctly - the rubber of the cone should NOT be in contact with the wooden face of the prop

Will try to start the starter and touch the nut - last time I tried this I repeatedly slipped and hit the cowl- guess will just need to keep my hand steady, right? Somehow I thought an electric starter was supposed to make life easier

Will not give up!

you could try this.....

Also make sure that the silicone rubber piece is all the way into the hub of the starter. It takes a considerable amount of force to do this.

I've heard and seen people do the "running start and bump" with the starter, but it never works for me, I almost always slip off to the side.

I put the starter against the nose and hit the switch. But I do rotate the prop backwards against compression to give the starter a running shot at the compression stroke.

And you are correct, you don't usually want the cone pressing on the prop. Though there are some cones made by Sullivan designed to grab the prop. Never used them myself though.

I do find that the dubro spinner nuts are big enough in diameter to work with most normal starter cones, though they don't look very scale.

hahaha! Nice pic

Also thought of using a plastic black spinner - but it was too ugly to attach to my beautiful yellow Cub. Would a plastic spinner help my situation? I'd rather have an ugly plane that is easy to start!

I can understand your apprehension about using a chicken stick... As a loyal user however, once you get the hang of it and understand what the engine wants in order to start, mainly a good prime, the motor will fire right up. It kills me every time I watch the guys at the field run the starter for what seems like forever trying to get the engine running. It has to do some kind of damage just grinding away there without starting.

Just my opinion though...

The astute saleperson at Camden Hobby Stores advised me that a 4 stroke engine would be "much easier" to start with using an electric starter. Now that I have parted with my cash I want to try and get some use out of the starter if possible (and be gentle with my precious engine as well)

While applying the starter, should the prop nut just be firmly touching the silicon or does the nose of the nut need to be squeezed into the 1 cm hole ?

You're just going to have to experiment and find out what works. A gentleman at the field starts his gasser by putting the hole over the prop nut, backing the prop away from compression, and engaging the starter. It works every time...

Use the small hole on the starter cone, set throttle to about 1/4 open, prime the engine by covering the muffler output with a finger and turning the engine over a few times (by hand, keep the plug igniter OFF!), you'll see/hear the fuel when it gets to the carb.

Turn the engine backwards until you feel compression, place the glow igniter on the plug, place the starter cone FIRMLY against the prop nut and hit the starter button. (I highly recommend against getting the starter spinning and bumping it against the prop nut. Not good for engine or starter.)

The engine should start within one or two revolutions. If not, grasp the prop FIRMLY! and turn it counterclockwise through one compression stroke. You should feel the engine "thump". If so, it has fuel, it has a hot plug, and it's getting air. Try the starter again.

If you didn't feel that "thump", then you most likely didn't get enough fuel to the carb. Try priming it again. But be careful. It IS possible to flood the engine, in which case it can "lock up". Trying to spin it over in this condition can result in a broken connecting rod or other nasty damage. (More of a problem with an inverted engine though.)

Good Luck,
Dennis-

Ditto to DBCherry's method

It sure does! I once watched a guy trying to start his OS LA15 that didn't show any signs of firing. It got to the point where the crankshaft seized in the bush from lack of oil (who knows what happened to the piston etc??). His mistake was thinking the starter would self prime the engine. It won't.

>(the prop has also spun off once to my horror!)

The engine threw the prop because it is a four-stroke and it was a bit lean. Nothing to do with the electric starter.

>The prop is attached using a Great Planes aluminium safety prop nut.

If you are not using the stock OS double locknut and are securing the prop with a prop nut/spinner thsi could be a safety issue. Four strokes can and do backfire and can throw props and need the double lcoknut.

Thanks Bill - will get an aluminium lock nut on my next visit to the hobby shop
I assume if I correctly prime the engine (as indicated earlier) this will solve the lean problem
I think once I get the hang of the electric starter things will be easier - in any case I am in this hobby for the long run so want to do things right from the start (or atleast try!)

arkum17,

I recommend following DBCherry's method, except that I like to get it primed, then hook up the glow plug and turn by hand to feel the 'thump' before I ever use the electric starter ( remember, a FIRM grasp is required for this phase of the operation ). Once you feel that 'thump', you know it's ready to go, and it should start very quickly with the starter. I also like to use a nice sturdy cone rather than a simple prop nut, but then I don't care too much what my plane looks like. A nice cone does two things. First, it gives a great place to seat the rubber cup of the starter. Second, it carries most of the torque from the starter to the thrust plate of the engine, so you have less worry about loosening the prop nut.

As much as I like the idea of going to the field without the large and heavy electric starter, I have a policy of keeping my hands off the prop any time the engine might actually find itself running. This means using an electric starter and enduring the disdain of all the puritanical hand starters.

banktoturn

Sullivan makes a starter cone designed for props without a spinner or hub. It has two extensions that fit on either side of the blade so you don't have to push hard against the face of the prop to get it to spin.

Actually, it's two different things.

"Lean" refers to the needle valve setting. If it's turned in (clockwise) too far, the engine doesn't get the proper air/fuel mixture (to little fuel for the volume of air is lean).

Turning the high speed needle valve counter-clockwise will richen it a bit. Problem is, you don't really know if it's too lean without running it. (Or trying to.)

If the engine is much too lean (or rich), sometimes it won't start. Good rule of thumb is to turn it all the way in, then back it out about 2 1/2 turns to begin with. It should start, adjust it from there. By the way, just turn it "in" until it bottoms out, don't close it too tight or you can screw up the needle valve.

There's so much more to tuning these things that we can't put it all here (or at least I can't ). So it's best to get someone's help. Your instructor's the best bet.
Dennis-

FINALLY got the hang of it!

Thanks for the suggestion. Using those suggestion (and a conversation with the helpful staff at Camden Hobby Stores) heres what I did:

Widened the diameter of the small hole to "snuggly fit" my spinner nut
(Ran the starter and used a file as a kind of lathe). After an afternoon of practise in the living room (wife is away!) I got the hang of it. Took it outside and using the tips mentioned earlier started the engine on my third attempt. After that the engine started reliably until I emptied the fuel tank

Interestingly on my third (and successful) attempt SLIGHTLY loosening the glow plug seemed to do the trick. I tightened it on subsquent starts

Thanks all

Now next week will begin tuning the little bear

What made you think of loosening the glow plug? I have heard of engines that had too high a compression when out of the box, the usual "fix" for this is to put in two of the little washers under the glow plug until the engine has run a bit, then you can take one of them out. It does sound like your engine had overly high compression at first. Not a bad problem to have, in the grand scheme of things.

losing the plug to start then tightening it up is quite common high speed engines that refuse to start easy