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Electric Starters

Old 11-03-2008, 01:08 PM
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Jetdesign
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Default Electric Starters

Well you guys were right - I was out flying one last time yesterday, and my trusty OS didn't want to hand start in the sub 40 degree weather. I was able to get a few starts by running up an electric starter with a 14v battery, then bumping the spinner.

So my question is what to do to get an appropriate starter. I know there are options of using different kinds of batteries and increasing the voltage. However, Tower sells a starter specifically for larger engines, and with that they recommend the 1.2 amp, 12v 'power core mkII' battery that I have on my 'little' starter.

Should I get the bigger starter, find better batteries, or both? I currently have a 1.20 two stroke and am getting another one, and hopefully selling my .46 two stroke so I need something appropriate. Again, I've got the '90' size starter, the 1.2amp bolt-on power core, and charger.

I don't know much about electrical systems yet so I don't know what the difference between the larger and smaller hobbico starters is. The larger starter will work on larger engines with the same battery? Here's some links:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL397&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL398&P=0

Thanks guys.
Old 11-03-2008, 01:57 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

I use this starter [link]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFT84&P=7[/link] to start engines up 1.20 four stroke and handles my 91 two stroke. Use a 7 amp battery, such as the Hobbico gel cell. I have had not much luck with the cheaper starters, and I bought this Sullivan used at a swap shop twenty years ago and has serviced me very well.
Old 11-03-2008, 02:07 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

The battery is as important as the starter. You need a lot of reserve power, especially when it is cold. A 7AH lead acid is a minimum in my mind. It has enough cold cranking powere to pull over most engines. There is an adaptor not that lets you use one of the 18V LiPo portable tool batteries. THis should be a good choice alos.

I use a standard starter on my Mag 91's. I never push a running starter into the spinner, but I'll back the prop up till it starts a compression stroke, the push on the starter and hit it. Even with a starter battery that hasn't been charged in a month or more, I've never had this fail to start. It gives you almost two revolutions on a four stroke to get up to speed before coming on compression for the first time. Even a two stroke get a little running start. I've loaned my starter and battery to guys with 1/20 four strokes that their starter wouldn't pull over (low battery) and it worked well. One of our guys uses a lawn tractor battery, about 20AH I'm guessing. That one will provinde enough amps to pull over most any engine. The NiCad packs on the charger just don't have the cranking capacity that a big old Lead Acid does. One of our other guys has a two battery setup and can switch betwee parallel 12V or series for a 24V setup. The series 24V doesn't provide much more cranking capacity though as the amp draw is limited to what a single battery can supply.

If I were you, for cold weather starting, I would get a length of #10 or #8 flexable power cord, like use for shore power on boats or hookups on trailers and motor homes. A couple big aligator clips on one end and some sort of socket for the starter on the other. Hook up to your car battery and you will have all the cranking amps you need.

Don
Old 11-03-2008, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters


ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Well you guys were right - I was out flying one last time yesterday, and my trusty OS didn't want to hand start in the sub 40 degree weather. I was able to get a few starts by running up an electric starter with a 14v battery, then bumping the spinner.

So my question is what to do to get an appropriate starter. I know there are options of using different kinds of batteries and increasing the voltage. However, Tower sells a starter specifically for larger engines, and with that they recommend the 1.2 amp, 12v 'power core mkII' battery that I have on my 'little' starter.

Should I get the bigger starter, find better batteries, or both? I currently have a 1.20 two stroke and am getting another one, and hopefully selling my .46 two stroke so I need something appropriate. Again, I've got the '90' size starter, the 1.2amp bolt-on power core, and charger.

That's exactly what I am using the Hobbico "Heavy Duty" starter with two 7.4v Racing Packs in series to increase the voltage.

This works GREAT and I can often go for weeks w/o recharging the battery.

I have NO problems turning over 1.80 4C engines and even most 50CC Gassers with this combination.

I equipped a second starter similiarly with a smaller cone for my smaller planes.
Old 11-03-2008, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

I've been using a Hobbico heavy duty starter and a 12Ah SLA (sealed lead-acid) battery since I began in this hobby. I can start up to a 1.4 sized engine, and I can even use it to field charge RX/TX or LiPo packs for my electric planes on occasion.
Old 11-03-2008, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

Check out the starters from Pacific Aeromodels: http://www.pacaeromodel.com/FieldEqu...erPanel/PP.htm

The Sulivan stuff is nice too: http://www.sullivanproducts.com/StartersMainFrame.htm
Old 11-04-2008, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Well you guys were right - I was out flying one last time yesterday, and my trusty OS didn't want to hand start in the sub 40 degree weather. I was able to get a few starts by running up an electric starter with a 14v battery, then bumping the spinner.

So my question is what to do to get an appropriate starter. I know there are options of using different kinds of batteries and increasing the voltage. However, Tower sells a starter specifically for larger engines, and with that they recommend the 1.2 amp, 12v 'power core mkII' battery that I have on my 'little' starter.

//SNIP//
Thanks guys.
Here's an answer for your problems. Anyway it has forever answered mine!

#1. Check out B&P Associates, PO Box 22054, Waco, TX 76702. 254-662-5587 for Starter options. I have TWO of the regulars. That way a heavy weekend at some Fly-In and I have well charged Starters all weekend. These are great items.
EDITED to add: www.bp-rc.com I use them to start 1.2 c.i. 4 strokes and Zenoah G-26. Big gassers I start by hand.

#2. Winter Starting. Take a small bottle or a 2-4 Oz. fuel tank. Fill with 1/2 glow fuel and 1/2 (there about) regular gasoline. Give a good Prime to your engine through the carb. Flip the prop several times and then light the plug. Unless you really flood it, the engine will start as if in warm weather. When I lived in Yankee-Land, that was the normal thing for winter flying. A few drops of Propelyne Oxide works well, but easy to flood and it's hard to get and store. The gasoline thing is sooo easy.
Old 11-04-2008, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

have 1/2a and .40 sized starters so cant help there,, but a real handy item I have found is one of the jumper batteries,~$35 from walmart use it direct , field charge your other batteries, jump off the other guys cars that leave their doors open all day and kill their battery, all kinds of uses, I bought it cause I am currently restoring a 91 miata,, plus I can put it in the trunk, leave it hooked up and have it charged on the ride home....or plug it in when I get there....Rog
Old 11-04-2008, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters


ORIGINAL: Hossfly

Here's an answer for your problems. Anyway it has forever answered mine!


#2. Winter Starting. Take a small bottle or a 2-4 Oz. fuel tank. Fill with 1/2 glow fuel and 1/2 (there about) regular gasoline. Give a good Prime to your engine through the carb. Flip the prop several times and then light the plug. Unless you really flood it, the engine will start as if in warm weather. When I lived in Yankee-Land, that was the normal thing for winter flying. A few drops of Propelyne Oxide works well, but easy to flood and it's hard to get and store. The gasoline thing is sooo easy.
I just kept a can of either Ronsonal or Zippo cigarette lighter fluid in my field box. Prime the engine like nomal and then just put a couple of drops of lighter fluid in the venturi and the engine lights off just like it's summer.
Before I discovered that little trick, I almost succumbed to the temptation to get myself an electric starter.
Old 11-04-2008, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters


ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Well you guys were right - I was out flying one last time yesterday, and my trusty OS didn't want to hand start in the sub 40 degree weather. I was able to get a few starts by running up an electric starter with a 14v battery, then bumping the spinner.

So my question is what to do to get an appropriate starter. I know there are options of using different kinds of batteries and increasing the voltage. However, Tower sells a starter specifically for larger engines, and with that they recommend the 1.2 amp, 12v 'power core mkII' battery that I have on my 'little' starter.

Should I get the bigger starter, find better batteries, or both? I currently have a 1.20 two stroke and am getting another one, and hopefully selling my .46 two stroke so I need something appropriate. Again, I've got the '90' size starter, the 1.2amp bolt-on power core, and charger.

I don't know much about electrical systems yet so I don't know what the difference between the larger and smaller hobbico starters is. The larger starter will work on larger engines with the same battery? Here's some links:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL397&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL398&P=0

Thanks guys.
I use the B&P starter it is a geared Magnum starter with 14.4 volt nicd. The Pacific aeromodel starter is also pretty nice. little bit less money. I run mine on a OS140RX and have used it on the YS160's also.
Old 11-04-2008, 08:39 PM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

Thanks for all the tips, guys! Sounds like a larger battery is first in order, likely followed by a heavier duty starter, and also a new glow ignitor.

Of course I probably won't fly again until next summer, when my chicken stick and half-dead glow ignitor will work just fine and I'll forget all about these problems =)

Maybe Santa won't forget =)
Old 11-05-2008, 10:19 AM
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Default RE: Electric Starters

Using an ordinary cheap ungeared starter and increasing the voltage to 16.8 volts using two Seven cell Nimh packs (RC car, Paint gun or portatble CD player packs) from around 1800Mah and up will provide the magic far better than most commercial units and lighter.

Old 04-26-2016, 04:21 PM
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Is it too late to bump this thread?
If it isn't, I have a need for a starter for a 100 cc two stroke aero engine.
Any suggestions of commercial ones to suit? Or can one be made from a recycled DC motor?
Old 04-26-2016, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim.Thompson View Post
Is it too late to bump this thread?
If it isn't, I have a need for a starter for a 100 cc two stroke aero engine.
Any suggestions of commercial ones to suit? Or can one be made from a recycled DC motor?
Go to Home Depot and get one of these drills, then Tower for a cone and insert, a lock nut and 3" bolt, and you will have a starter good for up to 150cc.
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Old 04-26-2016, 06:40 PM
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Thanks for the creative and prompt reply Ace.
I already have a battery power drill. I'll look up the Cone and insert. Could possibly machine one up myself I guess.
I will have to fit a spinner to my engine somehow.

edit: I could not find the cone and insert on the Tower Hobbies site. What is the insert made of do you know?
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Old 04-26-2016, 11:57 PM
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I have made good inserts from the smaller rubber toroids, which are sold as dogs' toys. You will be fitting a large-diameter spinner, after all.



Have also fabricated a prop washer, incorporating a square socket (from a socket set), such that a square shaft can drive it, for starting. Works just fine, and is very positive.


This sort of thing ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-RUBBER-RING-DOG-TOY-SMALL-3-5-Various-Colours-Puppy-Toy-/121714282658



Last edited by bogbeagle; 04-27-2016 at 12:01 AM.
Old 04-27-2016, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bogbeagle View Post
I have made good inserts from the smaller rubber toroids, which are sold as dogs' toys. You will be fitting a large-diameter spinner, after all.
That looks like it would work fine. The problem I see is fitting a (large diameter, as you say) spinner to my clamping disc.


Have also fabricated a prop washer, incorporating a square socket (from a socket set), such that a square shaft can drive it, for starting. Works just fine, and is very positive.
This option has got me interested. Do you simply withdraw the drill with it's 1/2 inch square drive, from the socket when the engine fires up? Will it release reliably? I suppose it would.
I'm guessing it would be easier for me to make and fix a square receiver socket on the clamping disc than it would be to fasten a spinner to the disc somehow.
Maybe make a clamping disc from steel plate and weld a short stub of square (RHS) to it? Would be fun trying to centre it up, but possible. Perhaps use a cut down socket from a socket set, weld to the plate first, and then use that as the centre in the lathe to machine the disc.


This sort of thing ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-RUBBER-RING-DOG-TOY-SMALL-3-5-Various-Colours-Puppy-Toy-/121714282658


[/QUOTE]
Old 04-27-2016, 01:15 AM
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Yes, you simply withdraw the starter when the engine is firing. It works very well and I've used this reliably on model engines as large as 350cc.
Old 04-27-2016, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bogbeagle View Post
Yes, you simply withdraw the starter when the engine is firing. It works very well and I've used this reliably on model engines as large as 350cc.
Very good! I have an unused 1/2 inch drive socket surplus to requirements that I can machine off for the job. I'm guessing it should be welded to the steel plate with a high tensile (low hydrogen) rod, or MIG welder. I could try it first by welding the offcut piece of the socket with a mild steel rod, then seeing if it will break easily.
Choosing this option over the spinner and cone drive means I don't have to wait weeks for mail order items to arrive.
Old 04-27-2016, 08:06 AM
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i have dynatron work great and last long time. add mekita drill pack fur great power and no cord http://www.afineredgemfg.com/
Old 04-27-2016, 03:35 PM
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Check these out Jim.

Insert
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...SM&C=PCG&V=SUL

Cone
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...SM&C=PCE&V=SUL
Old 04-27-2016, 04:06 PM
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Thanks for the links Duncaj.
I have no doubt that some combination of those offerings might do the job. However, important details like dimensions etc. are very lacking on the Tower site. Also, I have a solution that will not involve weeks of waiting for international postal orders. Explained and detailed by BogBeagle above.
I think the square drive solution for cordless power drill is superior to all of them actually. (without having any experience of any options, that is).
Old 04-27-2016, 04:12 PM
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One problem not mentioned here, but I've fixed 3 starters that appeared to be having problems.

The common "hobby" 90 size and standard size starters have their power leads connected to the motor by two round terminal leads that are screwed to a plastic post.

In the starters that were having problems, the leads had over heated and some of the plastic melted and flowed between the tow round terminals and increased the resistance. Carefully remove the brushed end cap off the starter, disassemble the screwed together joint, clean off the plastic between them. Then solder them together and put the whole thing back together. Works like a champ, by lowering the resistance in the circuit.
Old 04-27-2016, 04:47 PM
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The down side of the 1/2" drive to me is it is not a one fits all such as the cone. I run the 3" cone and have two inserts, one insert fits 3" and up spinners, and one that fits 2" and smaller with the opposing side flat for non spinner apps. I can start any engine up to at least 150cc with any prop set-up. It has been the simplest solution for me, others may vary.
Old 04-27-2016, 11:45 PM
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I am not basically a powered plane flyer. I fly gliders. The current model I am building with the 100 cc Stihl engine will be a tug plane for towing large thermal gliders.
So, I am not concerned about the drive not fitting other planes, as it is not relevant.

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