hello everyone
im not sure if this is the right forum for this but hear goes
i have been flying parkflyers such as the f27c stryker , typhoon 3d aero cruiser 3d and a few flat foamys for about 4 years and also fly a blade 400 helicopter
i am looking at building a hanger9 sundowner 50 as my first nitro airplane in the near future {by 2010} LOL
would i be able to build this airplane and take it down to a field with an instructor and lurn to fly the airplane or would the best bet be to go with a smaler cheeper trainer?
is there any big diferances from flying small twichey little airplanes like what im flying now and biger airplanes like the sundowner 50 apart from diferance in $$ weight and damage it will do to someone something if it comes down and the usual starting gear flightbox stuff.

i can fly my little airplanes well. can land prety much where i want when i want and find flying circuts easy left a little easier than right but im getting better lol and can do mild aerobatics loops rolls snaps cuban 8's half cuban's ect ect
will i need to start of with an instructor and a cheep trainer?
if so which trainer would be best to jump upto a sundowner ?
i already have a spectrum dx7 transmiter which i use to fly my little airplanes so that should be a good start

thanks a lot everyone for your help

simmo

Simmo,
I think you would be fine, the only thing I would recommend is that you get a qualified pilot to maiden the plane and set the trim on it's first flight.

You already have the control issues handled so the only area you would need help would be the takeoff's and landings, bringing in larger planes is quite a bit different than the small foamies that you belly land.

As for general flying around the plane should be no problem with your Stryker experience.

On of the first challenges you'll have is to learn how to "Fly" a plane as opposed to "Controlling" an overpowered plane

I have seen many 3-D pilots get in trouble because they are used to getting out of a bad situation by boosting the throttle and "Getting the hell out of Dodge". But many times with a non-3D plane, boosting the throttle is the last thing you want to do.

Just remember that the Sundowner will not do anything once the wing stalls - except fall. If you have altitude, just let the nose drop until you regain airspeed and gradually pull out. Gunning the throttle and pulling up elevator will just aggravate the stall and end up in a crash.

And if you don't have altitude when you stall, kiss the Sundowner goodbye.

I've helped guys with park flyer experience transition to glow power and they all say the same thing: they thought it would be easy and found it wasn't. They got bit by the size, weight and speed over what they are used to flying. Initially you'll have a tendency to land a larger plane further out and I've seen them try to land off the other side of a 110' wide runway and they had no clue they where that far away. Being heavier a glow plane will not respond as quickly as you are used to and take a lot more room to maneuver around compared to a foamie, and you have to allow for that when learning your take-off/landing patterns. Speed wise - my Fancy Foam SU-29 top speed is not much faster than the approach speed of the trainer I give instruction with.

Before you jump into a Sundowner 50 you may want to get a transition plane like the GP Cherokee, Pulse 40 or something similar (secondary trainer type plane). Work with an instructor and learn to fly the secondary trainer first, then more to the Sundowner. The Sundowner will thank you for that and you'll have a fun flying knock about plane to take out with your Sundowner.

Hogflyer

This is the way as I see these kinds of things, Minnflyier have said the right thing I just want to dig a bit on it. There is nothing wrong to taste things and see if we like them, then we find that some activities are just a great part of our kind of life (or just don't). I have seen many people at the fields where I use to fly who give big steps changing models and finally they quit the hobby (even great flyers). I am clear that as I said there is nothing wrong tasting sports or hobbies, there are many things to do and just one life to live. If I decide to play tennis I would not build a tennis court in my backyard just to see if I am able to do it right. I would often go to public courts and check my skills; if definitively is something that pleases me I will find a private club and ask for lessons. That would be fun. In this hobby things go some kind in the same way; you decide to go to a flying field and check if it is good for you, then you buy a nitro fueled plane and see how things go. If you buy a harder to fly plane it would be like have a match against John McEnroe. Eventually you will give up because he plays better than you. If you play with someone of the same or like skills as you, then it will be fun and will maintain you into this activity. Now days there are many first or second planes as good choices for those who have the skills.

thanks everyone it has helped alot
i think i will be geting a 40 size trainer and get an instructor concidering a decent little trainer would cost the same as my spirit 100 glider compared to crashing a 3 and a half thousand dollar plane on m first solo and like alfredbmor said end up spiten the chips and givin up altho it would take a hell of a lot to make me give up lol.
has anyone got any good ideas on transition planes hogflyer recomended these GP Cherokee, Pulse 40 is there anyhing beter or are they all about the same?
LOL by the way i already have a problem with having to run CF props lol its bad but i blame it on my heli

Hello Simmo8:

I don't know anything about either of those two. However, the World Models Skyraider II is a good step from a trainer and in Australia, it's cheap.

Please PM me if you want details on where to buy it.

Bye, Ian

thanks ianwynne looks like a nice little airplane
i am not looking at buying one for another 50 or so days because the only way i am alowd to get a new plane now is if i save spending money for our holiday to america and then i can buy one there LOL so ill have a good look around in there shops and with a bit of luck find a plane that has been recomended if not i will wait till i get home and get something like that. im looking at the GP Cherokee it just looks nice lol and it dosent have that "trainer look" lol

Simple and easy answer is you would be fine I did the same thing the only thing you will want to do is buddy box the first few flights and practice takeoffs and landing approaches and you will be ready to go! I went from foamys to 65 size..

Andrew

thanks for the vote of confidance andrewtexas123 lol but i think i will start of with a smaler plane jussstt incase i screw up because i have never fown petrol or glow planes before i am going to the field with my stryker for the first time ever tomorow to see wat it is all about lol

simmo

Another option would be something like a .20 or .25 powered plane!

Correct me if im wrong but they are:
-CUTE!
-Cheap
-Light weight
-They actually have pretty big WS around 52inch
-Big wingspan and light weight would mean pretty floaty and slow
-Smaller fuel consumption
-Not as loud

Andrew

very true its not a bad thaught realy and then i could spend what i save on geting the sundowner and get in the air faster and get better gear for it, hmmmmm ill be thinking bout that
btw is there any nice hobbyshops in San Francisco that i shoud visit when im there ?
thanks

simmo

Yea that's a great idea save a lot on a little one (.20-.25) and then have enough left over for the sundowner. Instead of getting a 40 and a 60 which could get pricey real quick. The next thing is be ready to throw out $100 for field box and equipment (Starter, Battery, Glow Ignitor, Box, Power Panel) Personally I now love my glow planes cause they don't care about wind fly really when ever I want so I find my self at the field for several hours on Sundays just flying opposed to 5-10min flights at the park and not to mention all of the great people you will meet and fly with! As far as hobby shops go there are several good ones around here what part of SF will you be in?

Andrew

yeah i am willing to spend a little more on a good quality flight box with good quality gear
im not realy sure which part i will be in yet , i know we will be in the main part of the city tho.
do you have any recomendations in 20 / 25 modles that would be ok ?

simmo

Something like this:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...3&I=LXEDN6&P=K

As far as hobby shops:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_73...tm.htm#7312182

Andrew

The thing about .25 models is that even though they're smaller, they really aren't much less expensive than a .40. The planes cost the same, and there's only a small difference in engine price between those and the .40 - .50 engines. By going with a .25 vs a .46 trainer you may save $20, but you'll have a smaller plane that can't handle the wind as much and an engine that you probably won't use again any time soon. Since the sundowner is your goal and it's made for a .40 - .52 engine, you might be better off just getting the engine that you intend to use for that plane and stick it in a .46 size trainer for now.

yeah i never thaught about that very true
-you still have to buy 5 servos
-still have to buy the plane
lol im looking at puting a 50cc spark egnition engine in it and i dont know if that will fit in a 40 size trainer i want the sundowner to go fast i like fast
i have been recomended this plane today when i went to the field for my first ever time btw it was great
the plane is a Phoenix Scanner - 40 i have been told if i can fly this perfect and a stryker like i am now i will find the sundowner relitivley easy to fly but i will still be sh1t1n bricks LOL

The scanner looks like fun. With your experience, I've got a feeling that most trainers would get boring fast. As a big sig fan, I'd go with a sig 4 star 60. That way when you're ready you'll already have an engine that'll overpower the sundowner and be lots of fun. And the 4 star will hold any engine that'll fit the sundowner.

The Sundowner is a pretty airplane and very cool; It will also eat your lunch faster than you can make it. The 40 size trainer is the way to go. It is not pretty, it is not fast, but ugly is good. It will let you tear it up like a beginner needs too. I taught a guy to fly a trainer after he could 3D a foamy; he could not fly the trainer; he could do loops and rolls, hover, and all that 3d but with the trainer he was all over the place and out of control. He could fly in front of himself but flying out, up and down the field, and a real take off and landing made him sweat and it took a while. You will save way more money doing it the traditional way than the Wright Brother's way. I dont know if the names for the Sundowner are different down there but the 50 is for .40-.50 glow and the F-1 is for the 50cc gas.

Your initial post mentioned the Sundowner 50. A 50cc engine will not fit a Sundowner 50.

Even the big Sundowner does not have a 50cc engine on the 'recommended' list.

I'll throw my $0.02 as well and echo what Hogflyer said a few posts back. Foamies are a different game than glow/gas planes like the Sundowner. Judging from the planes you mentioned having experience with, you should probably get some kind of trainer. If you are good with it, the Stryker has probably given you good reflexes. But flying that Sundowner is going to be a totally different kind of flying. Judging distance and speed of a glow plane with a 60" wingspan compared to the Stryker may take longer than you think. My advice is to get something cheaper to practice with, then sell it when you think you are ready for the Sundowner. A Cherokee or something similiar with a .46 -.55 enigne would be good for getting the feel of a low wing plane that also has some speed and agility assuming you are confident in your skills. If not, then play it safe and get an Avistar!

There is a guy in our club who has the H9 sundowner. It's fast, fast and very fast, it lands fast. Not a good new guy plan. It doesn't even seem to be a fun plan, unless going fast and very fast is fun.

Not all low-wing "trainers" are the most forgiving. They are heavier than the Stryker, for one thing. And they are also more likely to stall. I built a kit last year, and it will snap, roll, and loop a lot quicker than the .40 sized Citabria I recently started flying. The Rapture 40's higher stall speed reduces the amount of time I have to set up for landing should the engine quit. The Citabria has a wider fuselage, less wing area, and slightly thinner airfoil. Yet, it will still glide like a sailplane (in my opinion) under the same circumstance. I credit this to the added stability of the high wing and lighter weight, even though there is more drag. Neither of these planes are trainers, and the Citabria is in fact a standoff sport-scale model. In spite of what I know, I still have a healthy dose of respect for the Sundowner, to the point where I would be afraid to fly it.

The Sundowner is very slippery; as it's designed for speed. The wing is thin and tapered with a narrow cord. Pylon racers use a similar setup: Thin wing, slippery aerodynamics, and high pitched props with powerful engines. They go fast, and do not take well to slowing down. Over the last year, there have been at least two threads on this forum with the authors pleading for the less experienced pilots to stay away from this model, after many of them have experienced what it does: Cruise at a high rate of speed with little margin for error. We have a highly experienced jet jock at our field who has been in this hobby for over 20 years and is a full-scale pilot. His Sundowner just fell from the sky and spun in when the engine died; he couldn't maintain enough airspeed when trying to make a turn. Sundowners have a well deserved reputation.

NorfolkSouthern

hear is a link to a sundowner with a 50cc engine fitting in just right
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...%3Den%26sa%3DN

i will definitley be getting a trainer of some kind first no doubt about it now
i still realy like the sundowner for the speed and looks i love to fly fast as i can but mabey it would not be such a good 2nd nitro plane what about an extra300 or edge 540 scale plane ? would one of those be better for a 2nd nitro i just want a nice 50 or 60 size flyer that will go a decent speed
any sugestions on an extra or edge that would be better than a sundowner for me at this time ?
i dont just fly foamys i have a bulsa 3d airplane aswell but i got a little disorientated in the sun and had an accidental landing LOL but its all fixed now
thankyou everyone for your help

simmo

I would say after your trainer get a Kaos. You need to get past the point of pilot error crashes with the trainer; 100 no crash flights and I would say you are ready for more. The Kaos can be fast, aerobatic,cheap, and not scary to fly.