chemie

OK. I am about to embark on a SSE kit build, but can not start until "given" the kit in a few weeks ;-)
I have absolutely no idea what I am doing. In fact, a few months ago, I read Ken's "pay to forward Lt-40" build thread and decided I would never build (It was a great thread...just seems like something beyond my skills). However, I have since read a bunch more threads and have decided MAYBE i can make a go of it.

While there are a ton of good SSE threads ([link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3274319/tm.htm]Kiswa[/link] and [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3755434/mpage_1/key_SSE/tm.htm]somegeek[/link]), I might even chronicle in a thread as I suspect I will need a ton of help. These threads were very good at showing the right way, maybe mine can show the wrong way, fixed.

Anyway, I already have some questions and figure better ask now since x-mas will be busy for everyone.

1. Starting with the very first gluing, I am unsure of technique. While the CA method makes sense (assemble and apply to joints and allow it to wick), I want to use TitebondII.

For Titebond, do I:
1. Assemble and apply TB glue to edges just like CA (and have it drip or wick into area)? ("build up a fillet?)
or 2. Assemble to check fit, then pull each rib out and apply glue to all contact surfaces, and then reassemble and clamp? (and then maybe come back with more glue for fillet?)
or 3. non of the above...

For sheeting, should I weigh down with sand bags (already under construction) or tons of pins? (Two different methods done in the threads).

Thanks.

flaminheli

I cannot comment on the Titebond becasue I have never used it. What would make you decide to use it instead of CA glue? I do prefer the sandbag method when it comes to sheeting. You could do what I did one year. My wife purchased me a CG Cub kit for X-Mas. I found it and talked her into letting me look the contents over to make sure evrything was there. Which I did, now the seal on the box is broken. Later when she left to go shopping with her mother I moved all of the contents of the box to my workshop and replaced it with folded up t-shirts to make the box feel like it was full of balsa and ply and taped it back up like she asked me to . So when X-Mas came the plane was already built but my wife was a little upset, but she got over it. So you actually don't have to wait a couple of weeks [8D]

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

If you're going to use titebond for the SSE you'll have to use your #2 method. Frame up the wing according to the instructions and make sure you have everything with a proper fit, and then pull parts out one at time and apply glue to them. Don't take apart any more of the structure than you have to in order to apply glue to it. As for the sheeting, I prefer to weight it done. Part of that comes from the fact that since I have a magnetic system I very rarely use pins anymore. Also, I don't like having all those "pinholes" in the wood when you are done!!!

I've built three of these planes and trust me, there is no better kit to "cut your teeth on" to learn to build. It's a very well designed kit that is a dream to build. Just take you time and you'll do well.

Ken

beau0090_99

Ken,
I haven't built the SSE YET, but I am in the later stages of my 4* 40 and have built the Sig Sealane too. The 4* is a T-lock design, is that the same as the SSE? If so, the #2 method is hard to do for the fuse, because you need to kind of pull everything together at once. As for the wing spars and ribs, I would recomend #2, because it forms a natural fillet on both sides and you get good surface adhesion too.
Have fun with this one, I think Ken typically says you put the glue in the box with the wood and shake it and out comes an airplane.
I'd be interested to see your build thread in the other forum.
All the best,
Curtis

smokeyser

If you're going to use titebond, do yourself a favor and pick up a couple plastic-tipped syringes from the hardware store. The tip on the titebond bottle is a little fat and tends to make a mess. I use the stuff on all of my models though, and it works great out of a syringe. Much easier to get into tight spots that way too, including those annoying t-lock designs.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

The SSE is easy to build using wood glue like I said above. Some kits are specifically designed to be built with CA, and it can be difficult to build them with wood glue. It sounds like teh 4-star is one of those. I haven't built a 4-star so I can't speak from experience on it.

Ken

ChuckW

You could build a 4* fuselage with Titebond just as you described for the SSE. Other than being made of plywood rather than balsa, the 4* fuselage construction is very similar to the SSE.

Using the CA just makes it go a little faster. That's as long as you don't screw up of course. I know all about screwing up that's why the Titebond or similar wood glue may be a better option. You have a little more workign time to adjust things and pull them back apart if needed.

Campgems

A tip for the titebond is to mix up small batches using about 5% water added. This thin the glue some and gives better penetration. I use an old CA bottle as it will usually get into the corners OK.

I vote for the tight bond on almost every task, almost.

For skins, I use gorila glue, a very fine line of it on the ribs and spars. Thin I tape evey thing down with the Scotch blue masking tape. I picked up some ACE blue tape to save a buck and the stuff just doen't have th hold like the Scotch brand does. Plan on using a lot of it, a band every inch and a half, IE a band of 3/4" tape, a gap of 3/4" and another tape. It take a lot of tape, but the results are predictable and good.

For landing gear mounts and firewalls, 30 minute epocy gets my vote. OH yes, servo lugs attached to a plate for use in aileron applications also are mounted with epoxy.

Hinges get the epoxy treatment also.

There was a thread a while back about the weight of the glue you used. Epoxy and CA are the heavest as little of the weight is lost as they cure. Tite Bond and the likes loose a high precentage of their weight when they are dry, so you end up saving a few OZ of weight in your model.

Don

Alex7403

Chemie,
Check this posting and the next one on this thread post #44:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_65...ey_glue/tm.htm

You can run the same test applying titebond from the side to see where the fracture is.

what im trying to say is either way assembled and applied from the side or applied to the bonding surfaces Not the glued parts are braking.

My suggestion is not to apply too much titebond glue to strengthen it because its hard to sand.

I’m using 99% titebond when its written to use CA and its fine, use Q-tips to spread it and hobby syringes.

Alex

jetmech05

I have always used epoxy on spars and doublers...elmers white glue on balsa to balsa....you'll have a glue joint stronger than the wood...and the balsa dosen't get brittle....the down side is the drying time and don't crash into a pond

bruce88123

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_34...tm.htm#3439708 read through this thread for a lot of good building technique ideas.

chemie

flaminheli: I did manage to open the box to check the instructions to ensure I had everything I needed. I cut open the plastic from the bottom. That is as far as I could go...had to put the box back with rest of the plastic restored and SHE was none to pleased at that. Seeing the pieces coming together early would be a big no-no.

Bruce: Thanks for the link....as I mentioned I did read Ken's thread and you are correct that there are a lot of good pointers in there....When I read it, and saw the bazillion clamps, and magnetic "pin" board, this is what left me thinking that a kit was outside my capability. Other threads showing a few pins and sand bags made me feel it was worth a try just to see what will happen.

All: I was only thinking as far as the wings. I am not sure about the fuse...I suspect there will be portions that need epoxy and I will follow the instructions to the TEE there. Where they say CA for the fuse, I would have thought TB would still help as I can assemble and align and then clamp without worrying about speed of CA setting.

bruce88123

In the fuse the only spots you will probably need epoxy is for the firewall and perhaps mounting the tail pieces. Follow the instructions on that. CA is not needed nor in the magnetic building system. Nice but not mandatory. A ceiling tile on a flat surface with some pins and weights is plenty. Maybe some small clamps.

There are some good SSE build threads too if you search for them.

Campgems

Check out the Harbor Freight, either the local store or the online cataloge. Look for clamps. They have a package of plastic clamps that are hard to beat for the price. They are small but with a firm grip, almost to firm for soft balsa unless you use a scrap of lite ply between the clamp and balsa. They also have some 4" bar clamps at a reasonable price. I just picked up a set of eight for $8 plus tax. Not sure if these "specials" are still on, but they return quite often.

Another good sorce of small clamps is the wood, spring loaded, clothes pins. For long reach, just turn them around on the spring so the long thin ends are the clamp.

Like Bruce said, a sheet of ceiling tile, or a piece of 1/2 drywall board works very well. Ken's magnet system looks very nice, and I build four or five planes a year, but it's Nice but not necessary. A stout flat surface that will not build a twist into your parts is mandatory. I use an old oak computer desk that I picked up in a yard sale some years back. You can dance, if I could dance, on the top and it doesn't move. very strong and it has a 36" x 60 flat surface. Anything you have that is long enough to pin the wing halfs down on, and is not warped is good.

I've picked a lot of great stuff up a yard sales, once I got some solid core doors that were not drilled and I made a bench from them. I left them in my last house when I sold it and have been sorry since.

Bottom line is that there are a lot of inexpensive ways to get your building table ready.

Don

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

For small clamps, don't overlook the cheap alternatives found in every grocery store. Your wife may even have a supply in the laudry room. Some misguided soul many years ago started selling these wonderful, inexpensive clamps as "clothespins".

Brad

jaejon465

Only another opinion. Think Titebond I & III will sand better. II will ball up under the sandpaper, kind of rubbery. III is water proof, if your planning on a float plane, II is just weather proof, I is not designed to be around moisture.
Again, just my opinion, and every one has one of those.
JJ

Hareman

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with jj above; Titebond 1 sands better. In any case, try not to put too much glue at each joint and allow it to dry for several hours before stressing the joint. The longer it dries, the better.

chemie

I went with TB II for one reason; it specifically says "ideal for RF applications"; I and III did not say this (which may or may not mean they are/are not meant for RF).

mesaflyer

chemie,
Just a little moral support for you. I'm no expert builder, in fact, I read the LT 40 build thread as well as several others to get an idea on what it takes to build these planes. I started a SSE a few weeks ago, and it is my fourth kit. I use Titebond II wherever possible because CA just kills my lungs. I will still use CA in a well ventilated area, and small amounts at a time. When you get to the wing sheeting part, the instructions will tell you to glue the LE with CA and accelerator, and then glue the rest with CA and spray the whole thing with accelerator. No way I'm going to do this, so I used Titebond and just taped the LE down with masking tape and let dry over night. Went back the next day and glued the sheeting to the ribs with Titebond and weights.
You see, there is always more than one way to skin a cat (of course, the cat doesn't like any of them[X(]). I just do what works best for me.
A couple other things. The instructions say that without the bottom sheeting in place, the wings are not yet ridged, and can be twisted. One of my wing panels was not twisted, but more like "bowed". If I sighted down the LE, the ends of the wing (root and tip) were about 1/4" more forward than the center portion. I was not too happy, as I had everything straight as can be while on the building board. So, when I installed the bottom sheeting, it somehow straightened the wing out nice and straight.
I also went to the LHS and bought a few sticks of 1/4 tri-stock. I glued this to the leading edge of all of my control surfaces, and then sanded down to fit. That is a lot easier than sanding down the LE to form the 45 degree angle that it calls for. I learned that trick from reading on RCU. One thing though, I won't be able to use the pre drilled holes for the supplied control horns. Not a big deal.
I'm at the point were I am starting on the fuse. First thing the instructions tell you is to install the blind nuts in the firewall. I did that, but in the process, two of the four engine mounting screws stripped out. I then inspected the supplied blind nuts, and there was almost NO THREAD in them. They all went into the trash. I used ones that I have from my local hardware store, and I will use cap screws instead of the supplied round head screws.
If you have any questions, ask on here, these guys have helped me A LOT. Also, you can PM me if you want. I will help all that I can.
Good luck.

chemie

Thanks Mesa....I also read the triangle stock suggestion and have it on hand. I did not realize it would make the control horns off but that makes sense since you are adding 1/4" extra.

For your SSE, are you going stock rudder or adding 1/2-1" extra; I have posed the question [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8264585/tm.htm]in the kit forum.[/link]?

mesaflyer

Yea, the tri-stock works great.
I am building mine stock. I thought about making both the rudder and the elevators larger and/or with counter balances. Decided against both ideas after reading a few of the build threads here. I am just not a good enough pilot (yet) to be able to put the extra "lengths" to good use. I had a Hanger 9 Pulse 40 as my second plane. It was just a blast to fly. I was just getting pretty good with it when I lost it due to battery failure. So the SSE is the replacement for the Pulse, and it seems that most guys have a lot of fun with it stock.
I am going to try my hand at installing a pull-pull on the rudder, if for nothing else, the experience at installing a pull-pull system.

I would guess that you already know this, but building with Titebond instead of CA takes a little longer. In my case, I don't mind, because I like the building part. Of course, if you have the room and are not easily confused, you can build all of the separate pieces (wings, elevator, ruder/fin, etc.) at the same time.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

sounds like you guys are on track with the adhesive questions,looks like there are several posters who have not actually used Titebond glue and mabee just reading the bottles for there opinions.

my expierence with the TB line is extensive to say the least and I presently have no less than a qt of each type I,II,and III, in my shop, and a gallon of the II for refilling the bottles I use it for work and modeling,being a contractor its just part of the job.

the I,and II is the best for areas where sanding is needed, TB-I being the easyest, but II sands well if you allow it to dry completely,it takes a little longer,but the advantage of it being water resistant.
it takes a major soaking to get it to even soften up outdoors, and I have used it on many exterior applications for house trim mouldings that are still in great shape today, it was the choice for years untill TB III came out.

the TB III is water proof but its the least sanding friendly and really gets hard when fully cured,I have had trouble sanding it with 80grit paper on a orbital sander when I built a cabinet with it, using it like I would normally have used the TB II I was pretty bummed with the lack of sandability of the product, now I always keep a damp rag to wipe any exess off when ever I notice any drips or build up on siding or crown moulding, lots of that in San Francisco.

in areas where you need water proof building and your carefull to wipe any exess off so sanding isn't necessary, then its a great glue,but for a float plane where your using iron on covering the TB II is fine for that application.

as for the SSE I havent built mine its still sitting in a box waitinng for me to crash my other SSE type plane, I really use alot of CA and for rapid construction where parts interlock and you can build strait its hard to beat.

whenever I have any sheeting, or areas where sanding is going to be necessary, then TB II is the way, I also use it for laminating ply parts the strength is top notch.

a tip for using CA so it doesn't bother you is get a little desk fan the small type that clips to the edge of a work table and when you use that type of adhesive then just hit the fan so it blows the fumes off the fumes bother me as well and I am also trying to limit my exposure to as many chem. as I can, I have even gone to using almost all water based glassing tecniques as well as painting latex paint, and products like www.warbirdcolors.com paints.

good luck with the build and happy holidays
BT

chemie

Mesa:

Now I am confused about the horn locations. Unless the control rods are too short, why not locate them in the stock location and just add 1/4" to the control rod length?

Also, should I use CA (per instructions) or epoxy for the fiber glass on control horn re-enforcement? For fiber glass, epoxy seems like the right thing to do.

I am not ready for pull-pull (in fact I am still not exactly sure how this works)...however, I really do think I will add 1" to the rudder...

I know TB is longer set times...this has to last me until April (post-thaw) so I am fine with taking months to do this. I can do a little each day/night..I am off for a week but then work will get very busy and having a bit of time here and there will suit TB well. My reasons for using TB is that I like the idea of having a LONG set-up time to get everything positioned just right. Whenever I have used CA, the 2-second ticking clocks makes things hard.

mesaflyer

chemie,
Here's the reason the mounting holes for the supplied control horns won't work. The row of holes on the control horn where the linkage attaches needs to be in line with where the control surface hinges at (pivot point). This is kinda hard for me to explain. If I can find a picture, I will post what I am trying to describe.

As for the fiberglass reinforcement, I'm not going to install it on mine. This is the only plane that I have seen that suggests the reinforcement. Now, I may be wrong, but I think it's "old school", or overkill for the control horn area. Also, I will be using this type of horn http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK108&P=0 and not the supplied horn. There is probably not a thing wrong with the supplied horns. I just like the idea of the horn being in the middle of it's mounting bracket, as opposed to the "over to one side" type, like the supplied ones. On all of my other planes, you drill the hole for the screws to pass threw, and then put a drop of CA in each hole, wait a couple minutes for the CA to dry and then install the control horn. Again, I just like what has worked for me.

I did put the reinforcement over the pre-bent wire that ties the two elevator halves together. But I used water-based poly (3 coats) to apply the fiberglass. The wire is installed using epoxy, and I figure the poly (along with the Ultracote covering) is strong enough to hold the fiberglass in place. If I hit (in a very bad landing) the elevator hard enough to break the wire loose, I'm going to have much bigger problems.

I also like the idea of the longer set times of the TB.

FYI - I used 30 minute epoxy to install the firewall, landing gear mount, and the tri-stock supports around each. A little tip: When you get to the part of installing the firewall and landing gear mount, install both of these parts making sure that there is no epoxy that squirts out in the area of where the tri-stock will go. Let those parts dry completely, and then install the tri-stock. And on the tri-stock for the landing gear mount, make sure it fits good and snug, and that there is some epoxy in the area where it mounts against the fuselage side. I use a lot of Q-tips or paper towel pieces when gluing parts together to wipe away any glue (CA or epoxy) that squirts out of a joint. Just removing unnecessary weight.

chemie

Still confused. I understand it needs to be "in a line" and all lined up but isn't it just offset back by 1/4" (but still in the same plane)?