6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

I am fairly new to rc flying, I have an HZ super cub and have alot of successful flight time, after many months, days and hours of research I have settled on a phoenix decathlon, 66 inch, I have made a list of following to buy, just need some pros to make sure I have it right. Keep in mind, I have 3000 acres of unpopulated flyspace, except for cows! and I do not fly with anyone so no radio issues with other flyers. On the list is a super tiger 51 engine, futaba 6exp 6 channel with a r68df/4 rx, 3004 servos, a 11x6 power point prop, all necassary building items and field equipment. I got the 6exp so I can upgrade planes later on in my flight career, And of course the phoenix decathlon, 66 inch wingspan.

Do these items all seem like good choices? I know I will most likely mess up this plane sometime, I have to learn to fly on my own as the nearest club is 100 miles away, my boys and I love to fly the supercub but I have always wanted a large glow aircraft, I am not planning on bailing out of this hobby anytime soon, and plan to continue until I cant fly anymore. any and all input is greatly appreciated even If you think I am doing wrong, RESEARCH and CONVERSATION I feel are the best training aids I have available to me, (and the flight sim i practice on evernight) So to all Fire away! Thank you!

ChuckW

Well, I'm no expert but I'll offer my two cents.

In my opinion, you might want to re-think the Decathalon. I know it looks like a high wing trainer but it isn't. The Decathlons often have a few tendencies that can get you in trouble if you aren't ready for them. It is probably better suited for your 3rd plane I think.

As for the gear you selected, it will work fine. Everyone has their own preferences of course but what you picked out would be more than appropriate. The ony thing you might want to change is the prop. You'll likely break a few at first and a flexible nylon prop like those from Master Airscrew will last longer.

draftman1

I second Chucks advice, also on your engine choice. Supertigre makes a great engine, I like them alot. but they are not, in my opinion, a beginers engine. they take alot of break-in and some tinkering. It would be ok if you had a local club and somebody there could tune it, but you dont. I would get an OS 46ax or 55Ax they are very newbe frendly and are more user freindly. Your radio is an excelent choice!

6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the input guys, In my research on this forum I have read many perspectives on trainers, some say the trainers dont fly like anything else, so If you learn on it then you try and fly everthing else the same way, Ive read the dacath likes rudder just like my super cub does. I dont even want to use the ailerons until i get used to flying the plane. Im already behind the 8 ball with training on the super cub, now with ailerons my controls will be all messed up from what I am used to. Im not really sure how to start with this aileron thing, I wish I would have started on a plane with ailerons, so I would not have to relearn the controls again. I know Im gonna turn my next plane into shrapnel at some time, BUT in my head, I think its worth the sacrifice to learn on the same kind of plane I plan to fly full time, decathalon, j-3 cub. I eventually want to get up to 1/4 scale cub or decathlon. I just dont know if i can deal with learning on a tricycle trainer then go back to a tail dragger and work out the whole control thing. I know Im rambling here, Would it be unreasonable to leave my radio set up with elevator and rudder on right stick and throttle and aileron on the other? To me it seems that would be easier to learn than to unlearn what I have already learned.................[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you for your reply, I am a diesel mechanic and have been for 20 years, when it comes to engines i am no stranger, BUT I am no pro at nitro engines! I have only seen them in pictures, my question is, I can tell rich or lean on any other kind of engine, I can hear when one is running right, Is this kind of engine complety different than say tuning up a chainsaw engine? Like I said, its alot easier to ask than to destroy!

jrcaster

While you are at it, go back and order the Tower Trainer 40. It will be a lot more forgiving and make learning more enjoyable. Just slap the engine and radio equipment in the trainer, then when you feel comfortable with it, move them over to the decathlon.

The controls on trainers are the same as everything else. The main differences are that the trainer will try and right itself more than other models, and usually flies slower than the rest. BUT it is a whole lot faster than your electrics. Basically what that means that in a turn you may hav to keep bumping the ailerons to keep it banking and you don't need to level it after a turn.

Set the radio up correctly. Ailerons and elevator on the right stick. The reason it has been done this way is that if you sit in the cockpit of a fullscale aircraft, this is how you control it, except for the foot pedals. That way if anyone was to fly your airplane, or you were to try someone elses, it will be right. Ailerons are not as bad as you think.

As far as how to adjust a Glow engine, there are several threads on that. I don't remember anyone ever pinching the fuel line on a car or truck to see if they are running lean, diesel or gasoline.

6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you for the input, I will look into the 40 trainer, Thats why I came here, I knew you guys would give it to me straight. I went back to look at the engines at tower, is an abc engine better or a ringed? what will live the longest? pros and cons? thanks to all!

ChuckW

Tuning a glow engine really isn't much different than a gasoline 2-stroke or any other engine for that matter. Obviously it has a glow plug rather than an ignition system but that's the main difference. The carbs have a high speed needle and an idle mixture screw just like anything else.

To build on what draftman1 one was saying though, the ST engines can be pretty finicky. personally I've owned two: a .45 and a .51. The .45 was a screamer at WOT but never had the best idle or transition no matter what I did with the needles or what glow plugs I tried. I was fine with that though since I rarely flew the plane it was in at less that WOT. The .51 never ran right though. I'd get the mixture dialed in an it would run perfect for 1/2 a flight then start acting up. I looked at glow plugs, fuel tank and plumbing, air leaks, compression leaks and everything else I could think of. I could get it to run "OK" but not as good as I would have liked.

A lot of people really like the ST engines and I have no doubt that they have many that work well. Still, I prefer the OS engines when it comes to 2-strokes. They run well right out of the box for the most part and respond well to tuning when it is needed. The only down side is cost. Does the user friendliness justify the extra cost? People will always argue that but results speak for themselves in my opinion.

A few people on here really like the SK engines from Kangke. I've never owned one personally but I noticed a great price on their .50 right now: http://www.kangkeusa.com/skengines.htm

Another good option is Thunder Tiger engines. I know a few people with their .46 and they run great.

As for flying with the ailerons, don't sweat it. Just roll in the direction you want to turn and gently apply up elevator to bring it around and keep the nose level. Some plane like a little help from the rudder too but not all. Just remember to steer with the left stick while on the ground.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

If you're flying the HZ Super Cub well, skip a basic trainer and try an intermediate trainer.

Look at this thread to see some suggestions:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm

Minnreefer

I would second Mike's advice, go to a good second trainer, like the 4* or tiger, I know many people that have been flying for a long time and love to fly those planes, you can have fun with them, but they land easier then a trainer (IMHO) and I would go iwth an os, they are more, but it makes it a LOT easier to not have to worry about trying to get an engine running right. Just my thougths,

Jon

vegas mossie

great planes has an easy sport 40 mk 2. it is a mid wing plane, os engines are all i run. (peace of mind) what kind of field will you fly off of? and keep in mind you will need some ground support equipment as well...

NorfolkSouthern

And that's where you may run into problems with the Decathlon. Using rudder without the ailerons may cause it to yaw the opposite direction. Using the ailerons without the rudder can cause the tail to drop. A trainer will allow you to turn with just the rudder and some elevator, bank with the ailerons and use some elevator, or turn with the rudder while keeping the wings level with the ailerons. The third option is the one you want to learn. The technique is especially helpful for takeoffs and landings. Once you have that down, you'll find the Decathlon and its Cub varients to be among the easiest and most forgiving planes to fly when set up properly.

With that said, you really should put two planes in that shopping cart and have them share the engine and radio. One can either be a Stick, Hobbico Avistar, or Hangar-9 Arrow. The other, the Decathlon. That way, you'll have your Stick/Avistar/Arrow (your preference) to experiment with in the wind, and your Decathlon for the nice, sunny day flights. Let us know how it progresses.

NorfolkSouthern

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

yep you will have to use the ailerons on all the above mentioned planes. Some planes such as the Decathelon like to have rudder input along with the ailerons. I like the sugestion of the Tower trainer. It is very basic and flies well. It is also very easy to repair. And we ALL do repairs now and then it is just a part of it. Few people ever truely master a trainer. When you can fly it 2 feet off the deck inverted all the way down the runway your there. I have been flying over 20 years and I can't do that...yet.

6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

Thank you all very much! I have gone back to tower and changed the decath to the trainer 40, with the savings I will go with the os engine, I want good stuff, I hope to use all this eguipment for a long time until I move up to a larger plane. This Is why I stopped by before clicking the "order now" button. I still need an answer on the abc engine vs the ringed engine, which way to go? whats going to be better for my plans? Thank you all for taking time to help out the rookies on this site and in your hometowns, I plan to go visit the club that is so far away from me at least once just to meet some people and gain some good info. I did some more checking and found a club 80 miles away, and got some contact info for one of the members.

ChuckW

I'm sure there are opinions on this and possibly some legitimate advantages/disadvantages of both. In my opinion though it doesn't so much matter as long as it is a good engine that runs well.

6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

Ok, went and worked the order over, i now have the tower 40 trainer in place of the decath, and an o.s. 46la engine, ordered the break in prop and a nylon flying prop, I still ordered the wood one also just because it will look good on the plane when its hanging up! I also have all the field equipment that i dont have on the list also, exta glows (os #8) and building materials. So I will place it in a day or two just to make sure I havent missed anything. Thanks to all!

ChuckW

One thing on that .46-LA... the carburetor has an air bleed idle circuit so it will adjust backward compared to most other engines. In other words, back the screw out to let in extra air and lean it out and screw it in to restrict the air and richen the mixture. Not a big deal at all, just different than other engines where the idle mixture screw controls fuel rather than air.

txaggie08

I think you'll be happier with a trainer than the decathlon starting out.


One thing to consider as you advance, it's very possible to build a symmetrical wing for that trainer fuselage. I've seen lot's of pilots first convert them to taildragger, and then scratch build a simple symmetrical wing. Bump it up to a .60 size motor and the plane would be a great sport acrobat. It can be done in stages and one airframe can keep you happy through a primary and secondary trainer.

jrcaster

If you haven't placed the order yet, drop the OS .46 LA and upgrade it to the OS .46 AX. They are both ABC engines but the AX has ball bearings on the crankshaft whereas the LA has bushings. Ball bearings last longer, and the AX has more power than the LA. Also you can build a combo and save money there too. Get the plane, radio, engine, and glow starter.

You could have stayed with the Super Tiger engine, it is a decent engine. With it being a .51 it will fit the Decathlon when you decide to get it, and it is not too oversized for the trainer.

As far as ABC or Ringed, they are both good designs. Either one you can make last a lifetime, or ruin it in less than one season. This is where the Castor oil comes in, and also making sure you don't run too lean. You want at least some Castor in the mix, to guard against a lean run and ruining a good engine early. The only drawback to running Castor is that it makes cleaning the airplane harder. You will get a gooy mess on the muffler side of the fuselage, wing, and tail. It is cleaned off using windex or windshield washer fluid and paper towels.

Rufcut

I'm no "pro" but I think jrcaster is right. For the $50 go with a O.S.46AX rather than the LA series. Do a search on the 46LA and you'll find a lot of people complaining that it just doesn't put out the power.

Insanemoondoggie

Dont waste your money on a LA ,they are O.K for what their meant to be , but you can get much more engine for the money. As your flying skills increase , your going to want more power on your next plane ,so I would recommend , getting a better engine now.
Supertigres are great engines, I have every one between the GS40 thru to the G2300, good bang for the buck. Also have a few O.S engines which set on the selves collecting dust. ones an LA and ones a .46 AX . great starting and very dependable , but dont come close to the power of a cheapo $60 GMS .47. and never a deadstick 3 gal + of fuel thru it.
For someone new to RC and no mechanical back ground , I would go with the OS .46 or .55 AX , no brainer engines and dont need a very long break-in time. The ST and GMS engines take a little more breaking in, but you end up with a good engine , thats more than half the price of an O.S.
As others have mentioned, use a castor/syn blend fuel to start out with , once you get some time on it , you can switch to Coolpower , if you want , The castor glaze`s the liners and give a little more protection from lean runs.
Tower Trainer is a good plane. Cheap and flys just the way a trainer is suppose too. Let us know what you came up with.

Flyboy76

My Feedback: (14)

You have made the right choice with the Tower Trainer!!! Great plane and def. upgrade from the .46LA to the .46AX, it is such and easy engine to tune and run. A true set it and forget it kind of engine!!! My Dad has the J-3 cub and i now have him flying the Alpha .40 size trainer from Hangar-9. He is 58 and made the transition smoothly. Still gets pretty nervous about dorking the big plane in but, once you've been in the hobby a little while you'll get over it. After the first crash then you calm down a bit. It happens to everyone at some point in time.

Geoff

6inarow

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for all the input guys, I was going to purchase the tower trainer from tower, then I went to rc universe classifieds and found a new in the box nexstar 46 and tower hobbies combo field kit for a considerable savings even with shipping, everything is due to arrive tomorrow, (just in time for the next blizzard)[:@] so, i will be building the field box and checking the plane over for beefing up areas if needed, any trouble spots to check and beef up or rebuild while I am at it? Thanks again!