Korps

I know this is going too be a dumb and silly question and I know that it doesn't matter what you are going too comment - I don't have much of an choice. I guess the reason for asking this is just too know what I'm letting myself in for and going out with the right mindset.

Some of you MAY have been following all the problems I've had with my newly bought Edge (my old engine giving trouble) - probably "flew" it for about 15 seconds in total lol. First was a decent emergency landing, the other not too good, but no serious damage. Well all is fixed on the Edge now - the new ASP .61 engine mounted and the Edge had it's maiden on Saturday (the hobby shop guy maidened it, since I trusted him more than I trust myself with that plane ). I started this hobby last year October and started out with the Ultra Stick .46. I had one flight in September on my buddies Super Air while buddy boxing. Other than that I self taught myself on the simulator (FSOne). In October I got my Stick and soloed on the first day since we couldnt get the buddy box too work. Well after about 18 or so flights, I decided that I want something else since I could do a lot with the Stick (acrobatics etc ) and yes I also wanted a nicer looking plane . One day walking into the hobby shop I saw this Edge and bought it - then trouble after trouble we are were we are now. Like I said the plane has been maidened and after seeing how it flyes (speed etc - although I like speed) I just don't know if I'm quite ready for it, but then again something always looks worst than it is with me.

I also have a Stryker which I fly with a LIPO and one day out flying and returning home I left it standing on it's aileron and the aileron bend so now that thing has a mind of it's own sometimes...I still fly it and my buddy always laughs since if you do a move too fast it will just dive straight too the ground due too this defected aileron. I can safe it everytime and my reaction is quite fast (according too my buddy who flys with me and otherwise it would not have been flying anymore ) I've had a couple of cm-from-the-ground recoveries. There is just no time too think when flying that thing lol. I have however taken the aileron off last night and going too replace it since in the wind it just gets a bit too hectic not having FULL control over the plane.

My question - is this going to be a BIG jump from the Stick? Or should I not worry too much and just take it slowly?

playntraffic

You can do it. Set the control rates to low. Get up to speed before take off and land with some speed.
Practice a lot on your FSOne. Fly the simulator with some wind added and you'll have some good practice.

jib

Don't set the rates too low though, stick with the manufacturers low rates. At our field, I saw a very experienced instructor fly a 3D plane that had the rates set very low (by the student) "for safety" but there was not enough travel left to trim the plane out during the first flight and it did not have a happy landing.

I still consider myself a beginner, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I prefer using stock rates with expo to keep myself from getting in trouble with my sometimes overactive thumbs.

I too spend a fair bit of time with a simulator, especially during this marginal weather time or year.

Jack

Korps

The instruction manual which came with the plane does not have anything about the travel/throws etc. It's a very very vague and stupid instruction manual. If I remember correctly I set the "high rates" to travel about 1.8cm for elevator and the same for aileron and the "low" setting for a bit lower, but which still should be enough travel too allow for sufficient normal flying. I know the guy who maidened the plane maidened it on elevator set too "high" and and the ailerons on "low".

TFF

Can you fly it? Yes. Should you fly it? No. You really need 180 flights on that stick. The problem with a plane like the Edge is it is an on the edge kind of plane. Lowering the rates will help keeping it from snapping, but that is what the plane was designed to do so it can still do it. If you can do outside loops an a bunch of inverted flight, spins, and some crazy cross control stuff and recover you are ok. You will be able to fly the plane around without these skills, but when the plane bites because it thinks you want to do these things and flutters to the ground you will wish you has more practice.

Korps

Noted thank you.I love outside loops and inverted flight and the Stick did it all so lovely. Crazy spins I have only done to an extent I will be quite honest and the reason for not always going TOO wild with my Stick was because I did it twice - the one time the the engine died in the air due too overheating because I was doing stuff at very high speed and constantly throwing the stick around and vertical (was the reason for the giving a lot of throttle) and the other time it lost power so I landed it before it cut out.

I'm not a experienced pilot - that all can tell from the amount I've flown and I know this too. When it comes too recovery - I've had a couple of situations and all of them I have recovered from quite well adn easily. But then again it differs from plane too plane.

Thanks for all the input btw.

TZflyer

Hey fellow South African,

I have flown Edges, Caps, Yaks and Extras of all sizes and in my experience the smaller ones do not fly nearly as well as the bigger ones (27% +). The smaller ones somehow tend to have higher wing loading, like to drop a wing on slower landings, whereas my friend's 30 % Carden Yak is a dream to fly and land.
Of all the aerobatic, smaller planes the one I like to fly the most is a... Stik. A Stik can fly the sportsman's pattern routine and tracks very well if set up correctly. I also dreamed of flying a small scale aerobat but after trying a number of them I find they don't hold a candle to a Sig Somethin' Extra, Big Stik or something like a H9 Showtime which tracks great, hovers well and lands almost like a trainer.
Fly the Edge. Go for it. But don't think its going to be a better experience than your Stik.

Ray

Korps

Goodday to you to fellow South African

Oh and how I would have loved to have a 30 or 33% scale plane . But too fit that into a Chevy Spark .800 is going too be impossible - at the moment I fit in the girlfriend, my plane (Stick [sold now] or the Edge), a rc bakkie and then my stryker plus the toolbox - then it's packed lol.

So you saying that I could have just aswell stuck with the Stick and rather have bought a warbird? Look I loved my Stick - was a great sporty plane - but the reason for going with the Edge is I want too do more and with the Edge doing nice Knife Edges etc - that was why I went that route instead of sticking with my Stick and buying a Warbird.

If I understand you correctly then - you saying if I can fly the Stick (.46) nicely I won't have THAT big of a problem with the Edge (.60)?

TZflyer

You probably wont have too much of a problem with the Edge. Just make sure your CG is right and your rates aren't very high. Your landing speed will probably be higher, you will have to learn to come in with a little speed as she wont float like your Stik, but once you get that right it isn't impossible to fly. Be careful using the elevator, not too much when going too slow or you'll get a stall.
Fly it! If you break it then just fix it. Kit building has taught me there is very little that can't be fixed with CA and a little epoxy.

I also love the big planes but like you can't afford to buy them and they also wont fit in my car. Luckily I have a few good friends who have enough faith in me to let me occasionally fly their planes. I can tell you that the 30% Yak with a DA 50 in the nose is better than anything I have ever flown.

If you are ever in the Tzaneen area then give me a PM and come and see our club and have a few flights with us.

Cheers,
Ray

Korps

Cool Cool. I then won't be afraid too fly it just very careful. I bought it and I must fly it so I don't really know why I'm so stressed about it - what happens will happen. But I'll remember the elevator .

Yip, I want too make a trip up that side of the world sometime this year and I'll keep it in mind thanx.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

The advice I haven't seen given here yet, which is key to improving your flying skill - When you fly, don't just throw the sticks around and see what happens and then try to recover - thats what we call "flying behind the plane". Instead, "get in front of the plane". In other words, fly with a purpose. Work on one maneuver at a time. If you want to learn to enter and recover from spins, just do that for an entire flight. Slow rolls - same thing. Snaps? Same thing. Repetition is the key to muscle memory. Think about when you're going to start the maneuver, what stick movements you'll use to enter, and what movements you'll use to exit. As you practice these skills, it will become more natural. Then you'll be flying the plane, not just keeping it from crashing.

You mentioned 1.8 cm as your throw, but didn't really tell us which Edge 540 you're flying. You did say it has a .61 on the nose. Those throws will probably be a little tame, which may encourage you to use larger stick movements than you should be using. I generally look for 15-20 degrees on low rates, with 30 or more for high rates. Then I use some exponential to calm it down near the center of the stick.

I have the Fliton Edge 540 Freestyle with a 91 four stroke, and its a great flyer. Very predictable. If you can fly the snot out of the Stik, you shouldn't have any problems with the Edge. My recommendation would be to fly the covering off the Stik before moving on the the Edge.

Brad

jetmech05

Why did you post if our comments aren't going to make any difference? I believe you are looking for reinforcement for the conclusion you have already made....Good Luck on your flights......I do believe you can still learn alot from your stick...have someone show you how to do areobatics....and pratice.....I wish you well

Korps

1. Yip I always try to do that - trying placing the plane in exactly where I want it for example. Okay I did play around a lot with the sticks - see what combinations does what and how certain things affects the plane. Like I said I still have A LOT too learn.

2. Flying the Green Models 3D Edge 540 46. Okay I'm not quite sure about the degrees, but the degrees whould be close to what you mentioned there. I'm not used too exponential - never flew that way with my Stick. However I did put some (very very little) in on my rudder since I saw that I tend too feed in a bit of rudder when I pull back on the elevator and it's just too take this away, never happened with my Stick, but it could be that I wasn't holding the radio as when I fly (never thought about it until now), but I'll see in the air.

1. It's not going too make a difference in the fact that I'm going too fly it. I just want too know what I'm letting myself in for. I sold the Stick (too pay for the engine replacement since the other engine was not going to make my flight experience fun - dying the whole time etc) so I don't really have any other choice than flying the Edge - that is why I made that comment. Yip I have done some aerobatics - I don't like just flying around in a block :P.

But if this is a stupid post then please, by all means, delete it. I was just wondering and gathering other peoples experiences and advice. If the people told me - NO YOU SHOULDNT EVEN TRY IT YOU ARE GOING TO CRASH IT - type of thing then yes I would have perhaps taking into consideration of getting someone who also flys an Edge and who has time to go with me onto a buddy system.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

Knowing which plane it is, I did a little research . I think its actually the "Powerline Edge 540". That plane is designed for a 46, so be careful with the ASP 61 on the nose. It will be more powerful, but its going to be a lot heavier (probably 225 g or 8-10 oz) than it would be with a 46. From the pictures it lootk to be pretty lightly built, so be careful of the engine mount/firewall. Making it heavier on the nose will also mean you'll probably end up adding some tail weight to balance it. That additional weight will make it closer to the dreaded tip stall on approach.

Brad

Korps

Was my thoughts exactly. With the 46 it was way too tailheavy - had to add A LOT of weight inside the cowl on the firewall to get it too balance. With the 61 it's a bit too much nose heavy for my liking, but I guess one will only know once I've flown it myself. The guy who maidened it landed it pretty fast but it didn't seem too be stalling on low speeds in the air - once again this I will only find out later.

But you saying it being heavier with the 61 certainly isn't a understatement. I actually want too go balance it myself again tonight and just see how much it is nose heavy and I'll post it just for interest sake too any people who wants too know. Like I said with the 46 engine is was extremely tail heavy with the battery also mounted right infront of the plane.

Korps

I have a question however on the balancing and you might be able too tell me. Usually the planes I have balanced in the past (or helped balanced) we balanced at the given point but with the fingertips only about 3 cm or so from the fuse on the wing.

When the people at the hobby shop balanced it they said you must balance it at the wing tip right across from the given cg (Still calculating the cg position from the leading edge at fuse side of the wing).

Which is the correct way - if you understand what I'm explaining coz it can be vague.

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

You want it balanced at the manufacturers recommend CG to begin with with. The instructions should have some reference (drawing, description or otherwise). Normally the CG is checked at the root, but you can check it at the wing tip. It shouldn't make any difference. The Edge has a straight leading edge, so the distance measured from the leading edge should not change.

If you don't have a specific CG defined, a good thumbrule is to balance it on the spar. For most of our aerobatic planes, the spar, which is the strongest part of the wing, is located very close to the desired CG location, and is normally between 25 and 33 percent of the mean aerodynamic chord. Once you fly the plane and get used to its characteristics, you can adjust the CG as desired.

Since the plane was maidened already, you want to return the CG to the location it was at on the maiden flight. Since the Edge is a midwing design, you want to check it both right side up and upside down.

Brad

Korps

Okay so I should just leave the CG as it was on the maiden flight - then I don't have too touch it since it's the same


Out of interest sake - why do you need to check it both sides when its a midwing?

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

The CG for the entire system may be higher or lower than the wing line. checking it both ways allows you to get the plane in its most stable configuration on the balancer, which could be either direction..

Brad

jaka

Hi!
It doesn't matter if you hold your fingers near the fuselage or at the wing tips when you balance a plane.
The thing to remember is that the C of G isn't a fixed place written i stone. It could be moved to your own liking. But as you move it backwards ...remember to reduce elevator throw.

Korps

I, out of curiosity, opened the cowl last night just too see what the engine looks like and if they removed the weights which was infront. Guess what - they were all still in there! I almost flipped - that explained why the plane so nose heavy...I'm going too discuss it with them when I take the plane tommorow so that they can cut a extra opening for airflow too the engine (I don't have a dremel tool). I also saw that the line going from the fuel tank too the muffler was torn and totally off the pin - I don't know if this hapened after, in, or before the flight on Saturday. If that line disconnects in flight - what will be the consequences? No back pressure or not really any difference? I did cut the line behind the tear and put it back.

LOL I have this akward feeling they didn't balance the plane after putting on the 61.

Oh on the topic of the CG (where too balance) - I found it made a difference as too where you put your fingers - When we first balanced the plane - if you hold your fingers near the fuse it balances with little weight in the front. As soon as you balance it with your fingers at the wing tips it was way tail heavy and you needed too add a lot of weight (this is what we did)

TZflyer

Korps, take all the weights out and balance near the fuse.
If I were you I would strongly consider putting something like an OS .55 or and evolution .52 in the nose up front, you will have a much better flying plane with plenty of power to spare.
See if you can borrow or buy a CG tool like the Great Planes one. I used one and the results were very different to fingers every time. If you can't get one tape 2 toothpicks to the underside of the wing on the CG and put your fingers on those. Balance is important. Do it yourself, it doesn't sound like whoever is helping you is putting enough effort in if they left the weights in with the bigger engine. That could easily have destroyed your aircraft.

Korps

Okay spoke too the guy at the hobby shop just now and took up the thing with the weights. He said when I come in tomorrow he will have a decent look at it. He said he didn't notice while flying it coz it wasn't nose heavy in flight. We will see tomorrow. Thanx for all the advice once again.

Korps

Okay so I flew the Edge today. I was suppose too get the cowl cut before flying it this morning - but hey you don't know me do you .

Took it up just for a 2 minute or so flight just too get the feel for the plane and I was itching too fly again. The engine was very rich and wanted too die if you throttle up to quickly (which was still very slow - got it on the runway twice and everytime on pull it died) and the low end not right (that was fixed today when I went to get the cowl cut for extra ventilation). The plane didn't feel nose heavy at all - neither tail heavy. I only had too add 2 clicks left aileron trim to get it too fly straight.

Here is a video which I just slapped together in 30 seconds so it's not a good video - but I uploaded it for the flight - only put two clips together and a intro.

Hope the quality is good enough which I exported in. The video was taken with a digital cam so that's the reason for focusing slowly and I apologise. I did keep the plane high for obvious reasons.

http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/Edge-540-wmv-2

TZflyer

Nice plane and nice flying Korps, glad it has all worked out for you.
Enjoy the Edge, told you it wouldn't be impossible to fly.
Let me know if you find it much more capable than your Stik was.