Hi - what is the difference between a kit and an ARF - doesn't the kit come all in pieces?

I am looking for a second plane to buy - something like the tower Kaos - best plane I've ever owned.

Yes the kit comes all in pieces, and you have the fun of actually building it versus the assembling of pre built main assemblies as with the ARF.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

I've got a couple of ARF planes, and to me, they basically take the fun part of the build and do it for you. Then they leave you with the grunt work of installing pushrods, radio gear, engine, etc... The worst part, is that all of that work is easier if you do it earlier in the build, so they take the worst part (for me) of the build, and make it harder.

I know that everyone doesn't enjoy pinning bits of wood to a plan and glueing their fingers together. I am not knocking ARFs. I just really enjoy the building steps that lead up to the ARF stage more than the rest of the build.

And there are definitely some kits that build really easily (Four Star), and there are some ARFs that can take you 50+ hours to assemble.

Most tools that are required for building a kit are inexpensive (razor blades, Xacto knife, sandpaper). I think the biggest investment is probably in the covering tools.

And lastly, you generally do not save money by building a kit vs. an ARF. The cost of the kit, fuel tank, engine mount, wheels, and covering, is almost always more than a comparable ARF.

Good luck

I have mixed emotions about both. And as mclina said, there is a lot to be said about building the plane from a kit, and as Stickbuilder said too, but I think he is more of a stick builder (as his moniker states) meaning he buys balsa, buys the plans, then cuts the wood according to the plan, and builds accordingly. Now that's really building, and I've never tried that part, and don't think I have the time, talent, nor the patients for that kind of build.

But kits come in all sizes and difficulty levels. Most modern ones come with laser cut parts which makes that part a snap.

I put my first trainer together, it was a kit. It was fun to put together, but I had the time. When I discovered ARF's, I found that I could assemble (note I didn't say build..) them in a few nights, and be flying by that weekend. It's all a matter of what you want and how much time you can devote to it. Don't cut your time short, allow plenty of time for either an ARF or a KIT. And, if you want to scratch build, as Stickbuilder does.. well, add a little talent to that mix..

CGr.

My advice to everyone that is into this great hobby is to build at least one kit. This does not have to involve the passion of flying any kind of model (Kits ARFs; RTFs; or AirHog toys).
Building a kit brings immediately a different point of view of what you are into; flying models could be only a glimpse of it.
I personally know many modelers that do not fly their models, I also know a lot of guys that fly ARFs like a dream, and for last there are some guys that build and fly what they built.
I feel respect for any of them but for some reason I always end up talking with the building guys.
This is a hobby and everyone have to get the most of it at their own expectations and if for some reason you are not having fun, then for sure you have missed the point.

CGR,

You are actually pretty close. I'll lay it out as it actually is. First you have the ARF. Everyone knows how it works. Then you have building from kits, where you buy a kit, and it comes with the wood, and the plans, and a few of the hardware items. Then you have plans building, where you order the plans from the draftsman, buy the wood, cut the parts, or have them cut by a kit cutting company, and build the kit. Lastly, you have what I do, which is to take a clean sheet of paper, and draw your own plans, buy the wood, cut the parts, and build the plane. That is not something that I would reccomend someone just starting out to do. Buy a simple kit, such as the 4 star, or if you can find one, one of Bruce Thorpe's Venture 60's. They almost build themselves, and fly great. Work your way up, and if you get frustrated, find a thread on that model, and expect tons of assistance.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Its pretty easy to make the ARF into a bunch of pieces, the problem is putting it back together.

I don't really like the building part. I like the flying - just me - but I can see how it would be very cool to have the patience to be able to build a kit....I wish i had that patience, since I barely have the patience for a battery to charge

It's not something that you are born with, but it is a learned trait. Imagine you dreaming up a model that you would like to build, and then drawing up the plan, and cutting the parts, then watching it come together under your hands, and then flying something that is your own, and there is not another one like it anywhere.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Kit building is more fun than arf building, and scratch building is more fun than kit building

KIT vs ARF hmmmmmmmmm. Kit wins in my eyes but let me know when you find them,I would love to have a sig rascal kit in 40 or 60 size,Would make an awsome float plane but I'm not going to buy another ARF.

At the advice of the guru's I bought and built my Tiger 2 as a kit, while I enjoyed building it I found myself getting very impatient at times that lead to a few mistakes.The fuse insisted on curving and if you look real close it is not perfectly true.

In actual cost it was about 60 dollars more then I could have assembled the arf version.(not counting tools) I loved covering with ultra. I hated my attempt with monokote.

I feel I understand more about the planes I love to fly.

I can absolutely see the benefits of building a kit. A perfect example is in my Tiger I was mounting a .61 engine on a 40 sized airframe, because it was a kit I could easily beef up the firewall and the sheeting behind it, I could fuel proof everything much easier. I also bought and used regular ply instead of the light ply stuff for gear mounting blocks.

I also feel that I know better what to look for that may need better supported or built up in an arf.

I have all the respect in the world for the guys that prefer to build from kits.

All of that being said I will likely not build another one from a kit. (ultrasport the exception) I do not really like the " grunt work" of servo and hardware mounting. BUT

I love flying my planes, an ARF gets me there faster.

I'm confused,you still have to mount the servos in an ARF.I just got done mounting some in my Sig pig and I was having a good time doing it,I love going down to the shop just to get away for an hour or two.

After getting a Supercub for xmas two years ago I started fiddling around on this site and after watching two Four Star builds, I decided to take the plunge. I started with a Four Star 40, very easy and straight forward and gave me the building basics. From that point forward I was ruined. Being that I'm a Warbird admirer I built the Great Planes sport scale Corsair right after the Four Star. Then I bought a TF P-47 kit...and started listening to all the scratch builders talk about planes available in plan form...but not in kit form. So I found a FW190A-8 (.60 size) plan set, ordered my material, and started cutting parts. The FW190 is about 70% complete but I've set it aside for a short time to keep from burning myself out (a lot of work), but I've absolutely enjoyed my first scratch built project and the experience it's given me. I find myself no longer "stressed out" doing the things that made me nervous before. After moving the FW to the back burner you'd think I'd get back to work on the P-47....nope, I ordered the TF P-40 kit because the P40 was always my favorite plane as a kid. I wouldn't call myself a patient person with a lot of things, but I was constantly putting together model car kits and planes (the plastic ones) as a kid which is where my patience with this probably comes from. I can say this, after scratch building the FW up to it's current state, the quality of the work from the P-47 to the P-40 is definitely noticeable to me. Not that there is anything wrong with the P-47 sections that I'd already built...but you can just look at the tail feathers of the P-47 and P-40 and definitely tell that there is a years worth of building experience between them. I also have the TF Spitfire sitting in a box waiting it's turn. I just can't decide if I want to go back to the P-47 after the P-40 is done or the Spitfire. Course there's always the Giant Scale ME109 short kit I got a few months ago tucked under the bed....decisions decisions

Yeah I am saying I do not like that part of an ARF it was not bad at all in the kit.....I should have been more clear.

That's part of the fun in building. You get to figure some things out for yourself. It keeps you thinking about ways to do things in a better way, and you'd be surprised at some of the modifications that you can and will come up with. I've seen a 4 star that didn't even remotely resemble what Sig designed, and it still was a great flyer, maybe a touch better.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

As a much younger person I used to have a Vemco Drafting machine and design my own planes and then build them, that was U-Control and Free Flight. Today I just see a plane I like and find a set of plans, buy them and do some simple redesigning. Back in those days you had to build or not fly and all the hobby shops were stocked with boxes and boxes of kits!! You walked into a shop and it even smelt like balsa wood. Today we have the ARFs and they have gotten a lot better over the years. An ARF will never last as long as a good made it yourself plane, they aren't designed to last, they have no wood in them and are built too light. Still, you will be in the air and having fun, that's a pretty good thing and in the smaller sizes they are a lot cheaper then a kit build. If the OP loves his little Kaos ARF then the next step if you want another one is getting a good kit, Mr. Bridi's son is still making the Brid kits and the 60 size Kaos is top of the line. If you build one and don't crash it too hard it will be with you for decades, mine just got it's forth repair and cover job. If you want something different but fly's the same then the GP Ultra Sport is te son of Kaos. I have the plans and am getting close to the finishing on a Daddy Rabbit, pre dates the Kaos by a few years, this is a plans built only plane though, no kit. Kits are stronger then ARFs but a lot more work and not for everyone!! I'm one of those people that doesn't have an ARF, I have had one or two but I like the pride I get from building my own and the ego thing of having something no one else has. Most people don't even know what most of my planes are!! I get a lot of that, Who Build That questions. I get a kick out of that too.

Hi

I know this thread has been dormant for a while and there's prolly tons of posts about this issue, but since I'm building an ARF and have noticed a coupla things, I thought I'd post them.

1) With a kit you get full size plans, very useful later on if you have to rebuild something. With an ARF you get a manual. If you buy an ARF where there is a kit version also available, it's a good idea to order the full size plans.

2) With an ARF, everything is covered and you 'assemble' it rather than 'build' it. If everything fits good (which it doesn't!) then you're fine. If not, then you've got a much more difficult issue than with a kit. With a kit you cover it after you build it. There you can fix things that don't quite fit right before it's covered.

3) With a kit you know what the joints are like under the covering. With an ARF, well...

4) And of course if you want to mod anything it's much easier and cleaner with a kit.

5) Most top name brands do a very good job of covering an ARF or an RTF. If you are good, you can do as well or better. If you are not so skilled in this area, it's very unlikely you will get a professional looking job.

Regards
Michael

But, if you take a few minutes to come up with your own covering scheme you will have a unique plane. I'm so sick of seeing 4-5 .60 size Pulses and 3-4 Nexstars at our field.

IMHO, an ARF is a kit where somebody else has done all the fun work of actually building it for me, leaving the rather tedius mounting of equipment for me to finish.

Given the choice, I prefer kits or building from plans to ARFs for all the good reasons listed py the previous posters.

Kits are cheaper in the long run because they almost always last longer. Gotta look past the initial price, just like buying quality tools etc...

Pieces? Some have relatively few pieces until you start sawing up the wood. The good kits come with sticks, planks, blocks and maybe (if you're lucky) some plywood. All in uncut dimensions.

We've gotten spoiled with laser cut pieces. Used to was a large number of the die cut parts were damaged and needed to be [re]made as you went.

One of my favorite builds was the Contender 60 where you get to carve the nose from large balsa blocks. Neat stuff!



Check out the sectioned Stearman wing. Even the real ones had scads of itty bitty wood pieces.

Kit vs. ARF The battle continues. We will call it "Operation Futility" and march our crusaiders bravely against the enemy. Err... which side am I on anyway? There is a place for both in this hobby. I like taking an ARF and throwing it together in a night over a six pack as much as any other guy I guess. But there is a certain peace in all those pieces you find in a kit that an ARF will never provide. Unfortunately lazyness and instant gratification, as usual, seems to be winning the war. It is getting harder and harder to find a kit worth building. Soon a builder will only be able to get a Guillow's kit to satisfy his need to glue bits of wood together. I am 38 yrs old and have started collecting kits (including a Royal B-25, pre-Martuka). So when I retire I have more to do than die on the couch watching TV with 1/2 in calluses on my thumbs from playing X-Box and texting.

I guess I do all of the above. Like now, when the season is winding down, I will get an ARF so I can get to field before the snow flys. I really enjoy building both kits and scratch built. I getting better at covering and seeing sometimes where I think I can improve on a kit. i.e., maybe putting servos in the back where the kit called for them in the front. Here is a picture of my latest scratch built that will be maiden Mondaygoing to the Skymaster's float fly tomorrow and Sunday.

Nothing more gratifying than looking at a kit built skeleton just prior to covering. The sanding is the biggest pain, but if done properly creates a good looking plane.