Rudder should be used to correct YAW. If in landing you need to compensate for YAW then use the rudder. If you need to turn the plane, then use aileron and elevator.

Absolutely not.

I agree with every word you say, Harry, about full size aircraft but, and here's the point, we aren't talking about full size aircraft.

You know how taking off and landing is generally more difficult with a 30 size compared with a 60 size? Well, that difference is continued up to full size, making discussions about full size aircraft actually dangerous for beginners.

It's as simple as this:- If you fly too slow ( a common beginners error) when landing, and don't know that the rudder can be your only savior then you will be taking a trip back to your building board for a few hours.

Try landing a 25 size warbird, Harry, and after that, tell me you don't get near snapping due to tip stalling encouraged by using ailerons.

Back to the original message . . Yes! keep using the rudder and you reduce the risk of crashing a lot.

-David C.

Most full scale pilots never fly their aircraft near stall speed. RC pilots do it all the time so thight characteristics are definately different.

Good point.

-DC

I feel more comfortable using it, and I see I'm not acquiring a bad habit with it; because this is the right time for me to get rid of any bad habit that I have learned till this point.

I will keep using it.

Weather or not you fly your your RC plane close to a stall depends on if its a scale type RC plane or one of these models that really don't fly like real airplanes or a scale type RC plane that is so overpowered that one does not have to fear a stall . As you say these RC pilots "if you can call them pilots" do fly close to a stall more than full scale pilots. I can tell you that RC pilots who fly scale type RC planes with scale powerplants don't fly near stall except with altitude or landing and taking off , the same way scale pilots are trained.The reason for that is saftey.Alot of people in this hobby who have advanced past trainers and are flying sport planes like Sticks,Four Stars and Stingers ect. are flying planes that have little in common with most scale airplanes because the wings on these planes will almost not stall at all, so why not fly near a stall ,if you do stall you are not going to pay a price. Sadly these same RCers overpower these planes to the point that really learning to fly is something they have never done. I guess if you never wish to learn how to fly, keep it up but let me give you a word of warning. One day you might wish to fly a warbird or say a Taylor Craft that has a scale type wing and a scale type power plant. If all youve been doing is flipty flops with your over powered not real airplane your gonna find yourself in a world of trouble when you have to fly your plane STRAIGHT down the runway for a good distance in order to rotate and fly it on a wing that will make you pay if you rotate to early. Your gonna be picking up wood chips if you get to slow on final . Sorry so long but my advice to a new person is learn to fly RC planes like real ones.The hotdog stuff is fun and ok but don't let that be the end of your learning curve God Bless Lee PS I hope I don't sound to harsh and judgemental because this has been my personal experience. I like so many learned how to fly a a basic 40 size trainer and then I began to fly the overpowered sport planes that are more responsive. Then I starting gaining interest in Scale type flying. After 3 years of muscle memory flying not real planes like Sticks, Stingers,Fourstars ect I bought me a Great Planes Taylor Craft with a 30 satio.It was then that I learned that I really did not know how to fly.My muscle memory was trained to give her full throttle and pull her up anytime I wished. Landing was get as slow as you wish and land on all three at once. Im grateful that vI have persevered and learned how to fly.It would have been much eaiser if I had learned the real stuff early. I also realize that some folks because of old age or physical ability can't fly scale type planes and thats fine but those who can should

Flying 'on the wing' is almost unfamiliar to those guys with hugemongous engines. The R/C plane is typically WAY overpowered compared to its full-scale counterpart. 'Point and shoot' is probably more apropos to the way second and third-plane fliers fly. Trainer wings - the fat, flat-bottomed ones - will 'mush' before they stall, if in fact they'll stall at all. A real eye-opener is going to, say, a Goldberg Cub, which, though a floater, has a very distinct stall. And this thread is zooming in all directions We must be showing off our rudder skills!

Of course you can steer the plane with the rudder. How do you think planes that don't have ailerons manage to turn.

Ailerons can't be THE right answer when three channel planse with R/E/T can be landed without ailerons.

End of story!

End of story only with planes that have a lot of dihedral. Without dihedral you don't get the roll coupling and with aerobatic planes you sure don't want it.

Every time I see people speak out against the rudder... I wonder what the heck
they would do if they suddenly lost ailerons mid-flight. (what, watch it crash?)

True enough that in "some" models, all hope would be lost...
but in most of them, if you are a proficient rudder flyer, you could at least have
a "somewhat" normal landing, instead of a completely uncontrolled crash.
If you have more than a tiny bit of dihedral, you may even land it "just as well" as with ailerons.
(Saved a couple this way, myself. One that lost the ailerons, one with reversed ailerons.)

Rudder is indeed an important Primary flight control.
Like anything else, there's always such a thing as "too much of a good thing".
Still, proper rudder use is important, just as is proper use of all other aircraft controls.
No need to scare people off the rudders.
Might just as well scare them off elevators and ailerons too, for all the logic it makes.
(Misuse of any control is obviously not a "good thing")

I don't think anyone said or implied that they were against using rudder. The question is should you use it. Yes of course you should. Do you need to use it? Sometimes.

Coordination its all about COORDINATION. All the control surfaces work together to bring this about. As a full scale pilot we turn with aileron and rudder . If we turn with aileron only we do so uncoordinated,if we do so with rudder only we are uncoordinated. As RC pilots we should strive to fly our planes coordinated. Why because the airplane flys better that way. Again I really believe that RC Pilots who fly these planes with Fat Flat Bottom wings and Ten Times To much power never learn how to fly Coordinated because simply put THEY DON'T HAVE TO! The reason I fly coordinated with full scale is saftey and comfort. The reason I have learned and am learning to fly my RC warbirds coordinated is because I have to.You go turning these planes uncoordinated and you might be hauling home fiberglass parts instead of the airplane you arrived with.The RC industry is going to keep pumping out planes that you can fly without worrying about all this Rudder aileron stuff. The reason for that is they want you to stay encouraged FAT and HAPPY and keep buying planes. Again the only way you will ever learn to be a REAL pilot RC or Full Scale is to work hard . When I took full scale flying lessons I found out real fast that my instructer had NO patience for slooppiness.When I took off I was expected to establish a crab angle in order not to drift from the center line of the runway.Why because if your flying out of a busy airport it can keep you alive. Landing was to be on the centerline,because if you get in a habit of missing the centerline then when will you start missing the runway?Again I realize that we are not in the plane but the same principles apply and saftey is at stake.If your sloopy on the controls you are more apt to fly your plane into someone in the pitts ect.If you wish to learn how to fly Coordinated then go purchase a plane that has to be flown that way.My first suggestion is a Great Planes Taylor Craft 55 inch wing and use a 4 stroke 30 . When you go turning this plane without rudder it will look out of wack in the air. Takeoff has to be straight or you will not be able to gain enough speed.Landing can't be to slow or you will stall.If you get to slow base to final you will stall and most likley crash. Thats flying. Try it you will start gaining confidence you never knew you had. Good Luck Lee

Looks like I opened a can of worms with this post.

Yeah, jucava - looks like it . Flying slow (my preferred flying), with a Cub looks much better when you add in the rudder. The plane will fly with only aileron. It'll also fly on only rudder due to the dihedral in the wing. You guys - explain roll coupling - you can do it better than I. A plane with no dihedral will have minimal roll due to rudder input - while my old 72" old timer had 7 " of dihedral. Three channel, but with all that dihedral it was as responsive as an aileron-equipped plane. For what it's worth, I put the rudder on the 'aileron' channel so I wouldn't have to think about control differences when flying.

Rob let me tell you, I love to make the plane hover you know little throttle and some elevator, to make the plane float in the same spot, I love to do this, the elders at the club got amaze to see a newbie like me doing this, I'm trying to land the plane this way, releasing some elevator to lose altitude and make the plane touch the ground with almost no forward movement.

Lately has been too windy, I mean, with this maneuver the plane starts going back, it was so cool; I was trying to land this way and the wind stop, you can imagine what happened I manage to control the plane and landed it in one piece.

By the way you know this is all rudder.

Thats great and it is alot of fun.Now try taking a scale powered aircraft with a scale wing and on takeoff track straight down the centerline and at rotation keep the track straight for say another 200.00 ft ,and watch that angle of attack.Remember with scale power your flying on the wing not the prop,to much elev. and your going to stall and go in. Then set up to land ,don't get to slow remember this wing is not the training wing you have been used to ,it requires a nose down attitude and the correct speed.Now come in on the mains without a bounce and roll out straight down the center . Then you will REALLY make the elders of your club think your awsome especially the ones who like to watch real flyers fly real airplanes RC or Full Scale

Very interesting. I see each opinion as being very informative.

For my needs, as an aviation enthusiast and a beginner r/c pilot, I'd think that rudder is most important on landing in a considerable crosswind. I hope my yet to be found instructor understands this. As a lone wolf, I can take off,
"keep it in the air" and have a great flight experience using only aileron under fairly windy conditions. I know how to co-ordinate a turn but my landings are not real graceful. Luckily where I learned to fly, turning into the wind was not a problem for landing. Things have changed now though. I never learned how to land using my rudder properly.

When I can land, low & slow using both rudder & aileron under these high crosswind conditions, I'll consider myself a much more accomplished pilot.

Just get it.
Up&Down

BunkerHill have you ever landed a plane in the vertical axis only with out a bounce, that is so cool, because every body else is landing with an approach, and 3 point landings with out bounces, sorry but when I want reality I watch the news, when I need fun I fly my unreal and full scale impossible maneuvers with my unreal combination of small weight and overpower trainer plane.

I don't want to be rude but the name of the game here is fun.

Fun is what it is all about.

If we were restricted to the power to weight ratios that full scale craft have and had to fly the way they do, our opportunity to do some of the fun stunts we do would be greatly reduced.

And, if we had lives at risk every time we went up, we would not be able to solo for months, or perhaps years. No fun!

So, let's remember these are just big folks toys. They are there to be enjoyed.

That does not mean we do not work on our skills or doing things safely or correctly, but we are not flying full scale planes with people in them. We are flying models for fun.

So, do that loop, come in at almost zero forward speed and drop it onto the runway and land with your rudder if you want to just to see if you can. Me, I have no choice, I don't have ailerons so I have to land with the rudder. Seems quite natural to me.

Clear skies, mild winds and safe flying to you all.

Its not either or. All im saying is don't limit yourself to one type of flying. Its all fun

Absolutely!

Fun, fun, fun, and of course the wow factor that you get from the other r/c pilots, I see it like a men club (we have women pilot and they can kick my ..... any time flying), you do something and every body tried to do something better; today we have our yearly BBQ at the field, I did my only cool maneuver I know and then every body else was trying to do the same thing, man we crashes today because that, and I was not one of them, I got back home with the plane in 1 piece and undamaged at all.

This is a fun addiction, my relief valve, have fun, and always keep alive the little kid that lives inside us( I think I'm about to give birth that kid or I have gained some weight lately).

And one more time have fun, fun, fun, fun.

IT IS TRULY A GREAT HOBBY and don't forget to take a kid flying yours or someone elses

Jucava - busy thumbs are happy thumbs

I'm having a blast, I haven't had so much fun in a long time.