Was flying a 60 size cub yesterday and was getting ready to land. Started to turn base and cut the power. All of a sudden the plane started to roll over (later found out it was a tip stall) corrected with rudder and ailerons while holding full up. YUP, full up, plane tip stalled in the other direction, again corrected the same routine as before, now losing altitude over trees, corrected again with the same results, one of the club members grabbed the tx and added power, released the elevator and saved my cub. Thanks to him I will be able to fly it again. Thanks Dave. I was so busy trying to correct that I forgot to release the elevator and add power. I put it up and flew my stick the rest of the day. Had he not been there I would probably still be climbing the trees.

Whew!!! Nice save!!! Any idea what caused the tip stall?

Way to slow and full up. the plane was really to far away. I was at a field that I was not familiar with and the runway was very narrow. So on my downwind leg I flew over the trees. I cut the power just as I started to turn base. I think with the wind behind the plane it just didn't have enough airspeed. However, the ground speed looked OK. But, they don't fly by ground speed, do they? It was really one of those dumb moments.

This is a good reason to fly with some down trim, it keeps you in the loop better for what is going on out there, instead of having to push the stick forward, you just relax a little pressure to get the plane flying again.

I would not have saved it, if left alone. Never though about adding power or releasing elevator. So concerned with getting it back level. Looked like a wounded duck.[X(]

Flying with down trim was one of the first things I was taught. Not only does it give your mind a constant reminder for which way to move the stick when you are low and inverted, but it is much more natural to release stick pressure to let a plane settle in, than it is to have to push the stick forward to get a plane to settle in. You can do the smoothest low level, high speed passes this way. Pattern and 3D flyers need to fly with neutral trim, but for flying a sport model with stall tendencies, down trim adds some built in insurance that you will keep the nose from getting too high when the airspeed is low.

I will retrim it that way and try again. Funny I have a 1/4 scale clipped wing cub with a 26 gas, so I am somewhat familir with cubs. Was just out to lunch this time. Of course, my wife thinks I am out to lunch more often than that.

Your big Cub is flying with different [better] reynolds numbers and I'll bet a different [easier to deal with] wingloading. The only standard rule is that the heavier the plane with respect to it's wing area, the less forgiving it will be. If a small model of a light plane like a Cub has bad tendencies and needs special attention to keep from stalling, it's either lugging around too much onboard equipment, or it's also overbuilt. At the opposite end is a Cub kit out there that is built so light, the airframe is too flimsy and the plane can't stay trimmed. So there is a happy medium for all sizes, they have a target weight range that allows enough strength for the forces of flight and they aren't built so that they "crash well".......which for a lot of overbuilt planes is a self fullfilling prophesy.

Man, I know that feeling. I did the same with my last 4*60 nice easy down wind turn to base and decide I turned to quick, turn back, and watch it drop like a riock. No mater how hard I pulled, it just wouldn't answer. That was over a year back and then I did just the opposite a few months back with my Ruperts Dad. I was playing with the CG and got it overly responsive and it was also wanting to climb like carzy, couldn't trim it out and had to fly it back pushing on the stick to hold it level. About 150 ft from the end of the runway, it started to ballon up on me and I pushed a little harder to watch it do a 90 downward onto the farm lane. Not much left. Ilooked down at the TX and saw my little harder push was to the stop. Sure liked that plane.

Glad to hear yours gets to fly another day.

Don

Sorry to hear about yours. It is a helpless feeling when what you are doing doesn't work.

i know the feeling, you do a manuver and your stomach falls to the floor, half way through you have dont think you will make it, sometimes you do sometimes you dont.
i was flying inverted with a th fun 51 and the plane lost speed and dropped the nose, i pushed up but it didnt respond (stalled), so i went full down elevator and halfway through i knew i wasnt going to make it but i had no choice i had to hold full up. the plane smashed into its landing gear missing the nose of the plane by inches (landed, like a plane looks when its nose and main wheels are on the ground and its tail is high in the air) im lucks the gear took most of the hit, they went through the wings but it was a easy repair. it should have been much worse.
2 hours and it was fixed, the remaiden i did the same thing again [:@][:@][:@] but that time i made it (i was over soybeans so it would have survived better) but i was mad at myself more than anything.....havnt done it since

I don't know much about larger planes, but a good flying .40-.45 sized sport model with 600-650 sq inches of wing shouldn't weigh much more than 5 pounds. A 500 sq inch model more like 4.5 pounds tops...4lbs is actually very doable.
Every oz above these figures will just make the models less capable, more treacherous and less fun.
"It" has less to do with your thumbs and more to do with the plane and the way it is set up.

I think #1 I turned base to steep there was a mobil home near the end of the runway and I was starting to get close in distance where it was. #2 was going to slow when I made the turn. #3 did not release the elevator to gain airspeed. Face it!!!! I just screwed up. The plane flys great and I will probably take it out this morning and fly again at my home field. I have flown the plane before. It just flys different than the stick that I always fly. With the stick I can chop the throttle, full up and it just mushes straight again while losing altitude.

Your recent flight experience is one of the biggest problems the newer pilots have the most trouble with. which is recognizing when your airplane is in a stall. Any time you bank an airplane the speed at which it will stall goes up due to the lose of lift(horizontal component of lift) when an airplane is banked in a 60 degree bank the rated stall speed doubles the plane actually flies as if it has doubled in weight because of the lose of the horizontal component of lift. Dropping the power in the turn to base is what induced the stall you experienced, then being exited and holding full up caused the secondary stalling you experienced. You are very lucky there was someone talented enough to grab your transmitter and save your plane.I would take that man out for lunch LOL!!! Trimming your plane with down elevator trim will not help with this type condition. Try to remember any time you are in a steep bank to keep the power up and carry some extra speed to keep you out of a stalling condition. I hope this helps
jerrysu29 Call Sign Wild Man

I was lucky, I think the ground speed is what confused me. Had a tailwind about 15-18 and the plane was moving quite quickly downwind. As I had mentioned before the plane don't know squat about ground speed. It operates on airspeed. I think I did learn a valuable lesson. As you said, when doing a steep turn keep the airspeed up. I did turn rather sharp as the mobil home was not to far away. My turn was probably 60*. I sure the top wing stalled first as it dropped to the high wing side. This started to take the plane towards the home, so I corrected rather steep in the other direction, this time the other wing stalled and we were off to the races. Geeze, I was gonna buy him lunch, but you should see how much he eats.. Actually he is the person that maidens all of my planes. He is a great pilot and good friend. (Still eats alot though)

Goirish. I had a sneaky feeling you were also in a down wind turn. I've been caught in the same predicament many many times and once in while ended up bellied in or broken the gear. Like you stated this was not your home field, Some fields you have no choice on which way you enter the landing, and having to make that downwind turn to base. You would be surprised on how many older RC Pilots still make this mistake and loose the plane. Then blame it on the plane being a POS, Then the very next day they go out with another airplane and do the very same thing. What is really sad they will not take any advice nor believe they were actually stalling the plane causing it to crash. OH YEH just take the guy a sandwich and a cold drink next time you go out LOL!!!
jerrysu29 Call Sign Wild Man

Flying with some down trim gives the plane a built in sense of speed recovery and it gives the pilot an engaged feel as he flies the plane. Your reaction time to the stall will be quicker and more precise compared with jamming the stick foraward and hoping you aren't mixing in some left or right at the same time.
There aren't any gimmicks that will prevent an overweight model from being a handful, though. Believe it or not, there are models out there that are light enough to be DIFFICULT to stall on a down wind turn.
When I hear guys talking like, " All Cubs fly this way and all Sticks fly like that", it confirms that the basic understanding about wingloading hasn't sunk in yet. It usually doesn't sink in until the guy can actually fly what you're talking about and see for himself.

Combatpigg I should have stated that just a little different. Every RC Pilot will have their own style of flying. Some like to trim down elevator in while landing. some like the neutral trim feel and, some like up elevator trim feel, some will land with power off never adding any while landing than there are guys that will land the same as they were taught to fly Full scale Pitch Power Trim. I myself like to fly a neutral trim, that way I am not constantly changing my flight trim during the course of the fight.
when on glide slope for the landing I pull just a little up elev. and play with the power to stay on the glide slope and airspeed needed to make the landing. Being our clubs Chief flight Instructor for many years this is the method I teach. Pitch Power Trim What I should have said about the trim of the plane at the point of stalling did not make any difference how it was trimmed up at that point
jerrysu29 Call Sign Wild Man

Hey guys, I took the cub out today and put a couple of flights on it. Had to get back on the horse so to speak. Every thing went well. No wind.

It's so difficult, but the thing I try to do is ONLY look at the plane and ignore the surrounds. So when turning base with a wind, I'm aware of the fact that the bank angle should be the same as with no wind and the elevator and power are sinilarly the same.
I like to use full size practice of controlling rate of descent with power and airspeed with attitude (trim). So the trick for me is to keep the same attitude whatever the wind.

The mnemonic taught in the UK when I was learning to fly, (1970) was "PATSA":- Power, Attitude, Settle (speed), Trim, Adjust. ie, whenever you're manoeuvring, you set the power for that manoeuvre FIRST, then select the attitude, then let it settle down trimming as necessary then correcting once it's all calmed down.
I once had a student flying across the North Sea who pitched up an Arrow 160 without increasing power and before I could say "I have control", we were down at 80mph because the constant speeding prop had lost efficiency and we were heavy.

It seems to me a typical method that model flyers fly too fast downwind, then have to "chop the throttle" on base to decelerate AND descend. This means that they are performing tight turns (because they're fast) so they have lots of UP elevator and are close to the ground with no power. All BAD.
"Full-size" pilots know that the climb-out is where you control the circuit speed, never accelerating like a dingbat once level, and that there is a straight leg after levelling before turning crosswind. (Jet fighter pilots, please forgive this generalisation). This gives more space downwind for modellers to get the speed under control so that base and final can be flown with a good fistfull of rpm's. This also will control any tendency for engines to cut on final.

Glad to see that you're "back in the saddle".

Heck with the "down trim" suggestions (I never use it)


DON'T LAND WITH THE WIND BEHIND THE MODEL - - - EVER! If you must - don't - but in that case use twice as much speed as you are comfortable with!

Keep your nose to the wind and your tail to yourself.

I wasn't landing downwind, I was on the downwind leg turning base leg. My last turn would have been final which would have been upwind.