All the trainers I have seen are tricycle with a nose wheel. I would think a tail dragger would be easier to learn on. Just curious.

In the air, there is no difference.

Landing, there is little difference, except that tail draggers will break more props, the nose wheel helps keep the prop away from the ground.

But taking off, trike geared planes are generally much easier to set up and make work correctly. So in that key area, the tail dragger is at a disadvantage. It is possible to make a tail dragger just about as easy to handle on teh ground as a typical trike, and there are trikes that handle badly on the ground. But in general, trikes are easier to learn with when it comes to takeoffs and landings.

i just recieved my tailwheel endorsement this week(tuesday) and i don't think they are that much more difficult, but they are really touchy with the tail off the ground. but i don't see how you would break more props, when you land in calm winds you land with all 3 wheels touching at the same time.

Montague is right on the money. Go with a trike gear for your first trainer airplane. A tail dragger can be more squirrelly on take offs, but in the air no difference. Yes, you can, and most likely will lose a prop or two with a tail dragger. If you aren't ahead of the airplane before take off it can nose over if you try to keep it on the ground too long. I recently did this on a Giant scale P-51 after several successful take offs. One day I just got careless and tore up a 14.00 prop. On landings can do the same.

On my first flight with my second airplane I learned the hard way about the weather-vane effect. In a cross wind a tail dragger is more likely to be effected by a cross wind on landings. This can put you in the fence, or into another pilot on the flight line. After I graduated from a trainer I had an ultrastick which was also my first tail dragger. I ended up in the fence on my first flight. I wasn't aware of the weather-vane effect and didn't have enough rudder to compensate for the cross wind. The cross wind just blew the tail around and she nosed into the fence. An airplane using trike gear provides a bit more control to avoid this, especially if you have the rudder throw set up for a new pilot on a trainer.

yup, but actually you put both ailerons into the wind to compensate for the wind, and rudder for the p-factor.

brschmid


Hey, no problem, assuming the new guy learns this from the start and can apply the concept without damaging his airplane. You obviously have gotten off to a good start. Good for you. I would still recommend trike gear for the new pilot to first learn the basics.

i do have a tri-gear duraplane, not a great plane, but it does fly pretty good.

Thanks guys. This was exactly the type of advice I was looking for.

More to think about...

Whether you fly off grass or pavement might be a factor as well. On grass the tailwheel isn't usually too quick to try to get away from you. On pavement things can go sour fast and that sometimes ends up with patches on the wingtips (ugh!).

Some planes are better in the tailwheel than others. The best tailwheel trainer I know of is the Sig Lt-25. It's also a good choice for a first kit. The wood is all laser cut and the instructions are written for someone who hasn't built before. Back to the point, when my son was learning to fly rc, the great majority of his early flying was with the LT-25. When it was time to go to plane 2, a Four Star 40, he already knew how to handle the tailwheel. You just have to learn to use the rudder, and that on landing you keep flying it til it's stopped rolling and the motor is off.

Nose or tail, have a ball!

Larry

First thing I did to my LT40 before I flew it was convert it to a taildragger. True, it takes a little more skill to master the tailwheel, but it is worth it in my opinion. Especially if you ever plan on getting into warbirds. I am glad I started out on taildraggers, even if I did break a few props, because now, I dont have to go back and relearn take offs and landings with my next plane, a Four Star 120. It is not as difficult as some make it out to be, you just have to be on your toes at all times and keep flying the plane until it is shut down in the pits.

how did you guys convert your planes, move the mains forward and the the tailwheel??? i am considering the above action for my duraplane

I converted my Nova 40 to a tail dragger, the main reason was that I needed to replace the mains anyway (the origonal ones were too springy), and I knew that I my next models were going to be draggers, so what the heck!

I did not find that the tail dragger was that difficult to control, just did some practice taxying, and a couple of practice take off runs. Sure, I have eaten a couple of props, but that was being a dumb thumb and garfing up a landing anyways. Just remeber to give her some up elevator when rolling out, and a nice flair on landing. If you do that you will be ok. As for the weather vane effect, sure you have to be aware of that, but it is easily compensated for by being ready for rudder input. Just be careful though, it is easy to over-compensate, and you end up chasing the plane around. I also make sure that there is no other flyers in the area when I am rolling out ... why push your luck on safety!

The setup is straight forward. Put the main just forward of the CG, and install a tail wheel. The wheel I used has a rod that hooks into the rudder so that it is steerable. I did need to add extra bracing to support the new main mounts. All in all it was an easy setup, and cost less than 10 bucks to get it done.

Here is a picture of the setup. Good luck with it ... Bo

thanks for the info.

I learned on a tail-dragger and never had any problems. I also learned in windy conditions and crosswinds; never a problem with the tail-wheel plane.

However, if you have been convinced that tail-draggers are the hardest of the two to learn on, then the tail-dragger is exactly what you should use to learn with. Also, don't be afraid to challenge yourself and learn in conditions that others are afraid to fly in. If you always take the easiest route then you will end up like many panty-waists who spend more time repairing planes than flying them.

When the wind picks up I go airborne while others go running home to mommy. One reason they spend so much time with glue all over their hands is that they never learn to fly in different wind conditions. They fly only when it is calm, so if they're in the air when the wind starts to blow they panic and begin looking for someone to come save them. If there's no such person around they will most likely crash the plane. They can't fly worth a flip but they can damn sure fix a plane.

Don't worry about breaking a prop; props are cheap. This really isn't a concern anyway unless you're using a wooden prop, which you shouldn't be using in the first place. You will probably land hard a couple of times and the prop will hit the ground. All that will happen is the engine will stop, but the prop will be fine. This will happen whether you are flying a trike or a tail-dragger.

Go fly and remember; there is nothing to fear except fear itself... the IRS.

That is one good thing about my home state of Oklahoma. You dont learn to fly full size, or RC in Oklahoma unless you learn to fly in the wind. If I did what I see a lot of guys do, go home when the wind blows, or not come out to the field at all, I would never get any flying time. To me, every new challenge I overcome in this hobby makes it that much more enjoyable. I dont have a problem with the guys who dont like to, or dont want to fly when it gets a bit windy, that's their perogative. To me, it just adds to the challenge!!

My trainer is a tail dragger and today was my first day for take offs. It's so easy to over compensate when it starts going out of line. The first attempts were not pretty, but after some practice I did it. I'm glad to be using a tail dragger trainer because most of the planes I see flying are tail draggers too.

Having lived in Kansas I can say conclusively that the people who live or have lived in either Kansas or Oklahoma are the only ones who can fully appreciate Isaac Newtons third law:

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Put more bluntly... Kansas sucks and Oklahoma blows.

i live in the Red River Valley of the North, you know the one that flooded in '97. any, there are few days it is calm here too. most of the time the wind is at least 12-15kts and gusting over that

David, good one on Oklahoma and Kansas.

Obviously I am out numbered here by all you windy pilots. Askalon , as you can tell, you will get different points of view on any topic on RCU. In the end you have to make your own decision. I would encourage you to ask one of the instructors at your field and to find out what most of the new student pilots are learning on.

If you asked me to help you learn how to fly I would encourage you to get a high wing trainer with a nose wheel to begin with. Especially if you are on a paved surface. Once you learn the basics, which should include windy conditions and crosswind procedures, then you will most likely want to advance to your second airplane. Most airplanes that fit into the 'second airplane' category are low wing and yes, tail draggers. Most airplanes classified as trainers today use an upper wing, and usually a nose wheel. There must be a reason...... Yes, you can begin with a tail dragger, but why take the chance of being caught in a situation where you are not familiar with how to correct for it, and possibly end up damaging your airplane? It's hard to learn if you can't fly.... You will get experience learning how to repair an airplane soon enough. Don't rush it.

This is not about fear or whether or not you are brave enough face the elements. It's simply a matter of being new to the hobby and getting off to a good start where you have the best possible advantage. When you are ready you will know. Just my 2 cents an honest opinion. Your choice. Good luck!

No need to flame me guys. I simply have a different perspective on the subject after working with multiple new folks in the hobby. I think we all are trying to help here which is why we are on the beginners thread.

i recommend a Dura plane, a lot of people dont' like them, but i do. It flies a little faster that say a Sig LT-40, but it is snappier too. i had my throws way down, but as i get more used to it, and a little bored, i just turn up the throws a little and it is like a new airplane.

also with the Duraplane, some parts can be purchased from a hardware store, or just order extras right from Hobbico, that is what i did. with the exception of the gear, and fusalage(square PVC) i have enough parts for 2 planes. so if i go out and bang something up, i just replace the part and keep flying.

My 2 cents worth:

For newbies, I really think it will depend on whether or not you fly off a grass field, and what shape that field is in.

The newbies at my field break props on thier trainers with and without nose wheels.

Field conditions most of the time: variable wind speed/direction, medium thermals. Both runways are in decent shape now (sodded, low cut) with high prarie grass next to it (min. 6" tall).

Their biggest problem is missing the runway (nosewheel being ripped off by high grass), and, of course hard landings (breaking nose wheel off or pushing it underneath fuselage).

In this case, the tail dragger will win out. If they miss the field, the damage is minimized. If they land hard, they usually just bend the mains.

As far as taking off, I don't see enough difference to really matter.

it is a grass field. Kinda ok shape, no big bumps, but not golf green smooth either....

I also checked out another field in Iowa City, IA. They have a club house and everything. real nice setup. I am hoping to drop over there this comming thursday night for club night.