Help with Trainer 60
 

Hi everyone. Several years back my dad gave me a Nitro Trainer 60 Kit with no radio, electronics or engine. Back then I was way too young to understand how to put something like that together. Now I want to put this plane together.

My RC Experience:

I have owned several Hobby Grade RC planes, cars, and boats before. I have built things with servos and have experience with brushed and brushless Engines.
Some of my models include: Exceed Sunfire Brushless, Exceed Driftstar Brushless, Traxxas Rustler VLX, Piper Cub Brushed, Wild Hawk Brushed and Cessna 182 Brushless 4CH
I have a lot of experience with rc systems but never with nitro engines, but I think I am ready to bring on the challenge.
I am 16

INFO ON THE PLANE:

So one problem is I can not find a brand name anywhere on the plane or in the box or in the manual.
On the manual, all it says is Trainer 60 in bold letters.

Specs:
Length----- ----56in (1422 mm)
Wing Span-----70 in (1778mm)
Wing Area-----900 sq.in (58dm²)
Engine----------0.61 cu.in 2 Stroke
Radio-----------5 Servos / 4 Channel


It looks exactly like this: (colors and everything)
http://www.nitroplanes.com/nircaisptr461.html

but... the specs are a little bit shorter on that page than on my manual. For example, my plane wingspan is 70in but the one on the webpage says 65in
also, the one on the page says it needs a 2C 0.40-0.46cu.in; 4C 0.45-0.61cu.in engine but mine says 0.61 cu.in 2 Stroke


So my question for now is, What engine should I use in this plane!? This is all I have to go off of for now http://site.nitroplanes.com/trainer60whitec.jpg


I ATTACHED THE MANUAL COVER IT CAME WITH


THANKS EVERYONE!

Im bettin its a nitro models super trainer 60 Calls for a 2 stroke 61 or a 4 stroke 91 Lots of choices on engines so do some research on the engines and see what fits your needs.

Do you have any suggestions for engines? The cheaper the better, my budget has been mostly going to my Rustler VLX

The Magnum .61 is a decent cheap engine. The Thunder Tiger .61 is a better engine, and probably the best value in RC engines today, but it does cost more. The TT will be more reliable, easier to tune, and will make more power. It's a better beginner's engine simply because it is more likely to be reliable straight out of the box. Some Magnums are as reliable as anything else out there, and some have air leaks that will drive you nuts if you don't have the experience to find them and fix them. Myself, I'd keep an eye out in the classifieds for a used TT or OS .61 or .65 if you need to save money.

http://www.hobbypartz.com/72p-s61a.html

should be about 6 bucks for shipping, and will be plenty of engine for your bird!

ok didn't know you where 8 hrs away till I posted, probably be a bit more for shipping!

Actually if you can afford it I would suggest an .85 - .95 size 4-stroke... improved power, fuel consumption, and sound... will let you swing a bigger prop as well. If you can't afford that, pretty much any .60 - .65 size 2-stroke would work fine. Ask the guys/gals in your local club (if there is one), most of them, if they have been in the hobby for a while, will have one or two laying around they would be willing to sell.

If you want an easy flying plane that is cheap to fly, put a 46 size OS or ASP on it. I fly a Tower Hobbies Trainer 40 with just an OS 25AX on it and it is a blast and my regular flyer. Also built an 82 inch wing for it and use that 95% of the time as hammerheads look so pretty with the bigger wing. Those Chinese ARFs are built fairly light so you can get away with smaller engines.

Hello theguitar please allow me to also welcome you to the forum, I think you are going to love your introduction to glow powered fight and you have a good start with what I believe will be a fine trainer for you.

Concerning engines please allow me to start first what would be at the very top of my shopping list if I were you. That would without a doubt be two engines both of which would be perfect combinations for your airplane and they are the OS 55AX OR the OS 65AX. These engines are without a doubt the most trouble free and user friendly out there. They are expensive and for that reason they almost always are shouted dowm on the forums. However if you consider the cost in lost flying time due to cranky engines that extra cost now seems quite economical. You wander most any flight line and this user friendliness of especially the OS AX series become obvious.

Now for a slightly cheaper engines my second choice is of course the already mentioned Thunder Tiger .61 Pro and yes I would only consider the Pro model as it is a fine runner and agine I believe a better choice than the cheaper TT model.

At the bottom of my list are the ASP,s and the Maqgnums. Why? Good question engines that are cheaper because of lower levels of quality control are always a crap shoot. Some will be excellent (and I have some excellent examples of both) but many will be boat anchors. So true modelers who are experienced engine enthusiasts can squeeze champaign from a grape but many new folks can only squeeze vinegar.

Only just my opinion:)

John

John is right, you get what you pay for. A lot of what makes the ASP and Magnum so much cheaper is the lack of warranty and customer support. If you know engines or have some help from someone who does, they can be fine. But they'll never make the power that a TT or OS does.
As a beginner, I will disagree with the suggestion to go smaller on your engine. Those of us who have been flying for a while are able to do the nice long takeoff roll and manage our momentum in the air so that an underpowered plane flies well, but beginners need to have that power up front to pull out of stalls and do fast takeoffs at times when the wind is not cooperative or you just haven't gotten the hang of ground handling.

Just to balance this thread a bit..... my two recent 46 ASP engines have been every bit as reliable as my OS engines. Engines in this size have become a commodity with fairly equivalent performance. Next time I go engine shopping, ASP engines will likely win out due to cost.

ok some might be misunderstanding his post!

although he included specs on a Nitro models 40 size trainer, that "is not what he has"!

look at the manwell, and notice, it is indeed a "60 size" trainer! so any 46 weather Os, ASP, or TT, will not be enough!

he also said, "cheaper would be better" is why I did not start out with "OS", or a four stroke weather OS or Saito.

my oldest engine I have, is a magnum gp25, and I just fuel, apply power ta glow plug, and after 25 yrs she starts right up, no issues, other then being a bushing engine, and she slobs a lil more fuel!

in short, sounds like the OP just wants too get in the air!

yes there are more then a couple theories about it, "get the best, or you will be disappointed"
or get what you can afford, and if it ends up, you really like flying, and want too stick with it, you can always upgrade later, as you fly what you got! which is what I subscribe too!

I started, with a 50 dollar sig Kadet Jr kit, the fore mentioned,25 buck magnum, a turkey baster, and a clip on glow igniter! all in a cardboard box!
and thanks too some great guys, at my not so local field,(15 miles ta next town over) who took me in a taught me how too fly with what I brought!

oh and a second hand 7channel futaba am radio I got for a C-note! :)

OS .91 4-stroke
 

I don't know if the OS .91 4-stroke is particularly cheap, but it's an excellent engine. Starts up first time, sounds great. I could fly for easily over 20 minutes on a tank of glow fuel. I just tried to find the price for a new OS .91 4-stroke but I can't find it on OS's web site. There's an OS 95V. Maybe the OS .91 4-stroke has been discontinued. Anyway.....it's a great engine. If you could find one used for a reasonable price I would go for it.

The O.S. FS-95V Ringed 4-Stroke Engine is $299.95 from Tower Hobbies. Not cheap.

You'll get a lot of on-line advice, some good, some bad. I'd suggest getting in touch with an RC club in your area. There, you will meet real fliers. If you don't know who or where, if there is a hobby shop in your area, that would be best place to inquire. Another place you can go to is the Academy of Model Aeronautics website, http://www.modelaircraft.org

http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx link will allow you to locate a club near you. There, the club officers can get you in touch with someone to help you with advice on assembling your aircraft, may be even give you flight lessons. This will help you to avoid common and costly mistakes, and also get you in touch with people who can help you as well as a place to fly your airplane.

Also with a limited budget, you may find a club member that is willing to sell you a good used engine or perhaps even a new one for a reasonable price (or sometimes even free!).

Good luck in your build and flying. :)

OK -- lets have some "meat" with all these potatoes. I've been flying the be-jeepers out this exact airplane powered by a Magnum .61 2-stroke for six years. Last winter I pulled off the covering to inspect the airframe as it has been subjected to more high-stress flying that some of my aerobats. I have a bunch of Magnum engines ranging from .46 and .61 2-strokes to .52 and .91 four-stroke. The .52 four-stroke powers a T-34 spinning a 12x6 three-blade prop. No shortage of power there. Back to the Nitro Trainer 60. This airplane is a ***** cat to fly. It flies fast and it flies slow. It is not lightweight but would fly ok with a .46 anything. But why pay O.S. prices when a Magnum .46 is half the price, just as reliable if not moreso, starts at the touch of the starter. Same for the .61. My Nitro has been modified to carry a glider aloft just like the space shuttle hitches a ride on the back of a 747. The shuttle pilot flies the glider back after release. Again, this .61 Magnum is no slouch and has enough power to drag this airplane vertical with authority and it doesn't care that the glider is on it's back. A .61 Magnum is $99 and a .46 is $79 at a hobby shop with the letters HP. Maintenance? None of these Magnum engines has needed repair of any kind. They run well on 10% or 15% nitro fuel. I have a 40 size Big Stik that had a .46AX on it. I pulled that engine to install a .46 Magnum and the Magnum is a better performer. The OP says he doesn't want to stick a lot of money into this airplane and he doesn't have to. I do recommend the .61 Magnum engine just because the airplane performs so well with it. Standard servos are fine. Enjoy. About 3 ounces of lead up front will balance the airplane perfectly with the .61 Magnum.

Actually if theguitar wants a .46, Sig (http://sigmfg.com/) has the Avistar .46 on clearance for $49 each, brand new. :D

I'd like to second your opinion. I lurk these forums and have seen the mantra many times about Magnum and ASP engines being a "crap shoot" as far as quality. I have at this writing in my garage probably 50+ or these engines, 2 stroke and 4 stroke in displacements ranging from 0.10 to 1.80 . Most of these engines were bought used from the big auction site or RCG and RCU. I have yet to encounter one that did not run as well or better than the OS engines, both 2 and 4 stroke, that I have (probably 30+) I can only assume I am the luckiest guy on earth or the worlds greatest engine tuner (definitely not!!!). I would recommend these engines as well as the Tower Pro series engines (currently unavailable via retail) to anyone. I think my good fortune is due in part to using fuel with the appropriate nitro content for these engines. I have two OS engines with peeled cylinder liners which effectively make them parts donors. I have never had a liner problem with the asian engines I own.

Good post Loop! Since it needs weight up front to balance, great reason to use the larger engine.

Wow Thanks everyone for all of the posts! What a great forum!

So based on my limited budget and many suggestions form you fine people, I'm thinking a Magnum .61

so something like this maybe http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?I=LXRLG7&P=8

does that look ok? I mean that price is possible but still Is a lot of money for me


I do have a local hobby shop that works with planes not usually nitro, but they do have experience and they could probably put in a 2nd suggestion.

Thanks!
-theguitar

theguitar, I agree with Galloping Ghostler, connect up with a local club first. Give them a commitment to see this project through to solo and get a commitment from them to help you succeed. If you do this then I will commit to providing you with an engine. George in Texas

Really? cool!

It is a lot eaiser to learn from those that love the hobby and are interested in helping other get started. Keep in touch, George

Look at that engine closely -- you will notice it is the front needle valve version. Nothing wrong with that but your fingers do get close to the prop for tuning. The rear needle valve is the more desireable.

:cool: two big thumbs up for gesmale! for stepping upto the plate!

I too have had an ASP .46 and it was a brute of an engine on a mid wing airplane of unknown model. The only issue with it was a carburetor issue where you could not kill the engine due an air leak around the throttle barrel. If you look at the current crop of 91 Super Tigers, they use a similar (if not the same) carb and it has a rubber seal around the throttle arm end. Other than that is performed every bit as strong as the Magnum. That engine was $49 from Sig several years ago and they still offer it.

Wait........ You want cheap, reliable, start every time engine? Look no further go electric

I see your point, but a nice brushless engine with an esc and big lipo to power my plane would cost a lot more than a nitro, and I wont be flying a ton, so nitro fuel should not become a huge problem. Also nitro has a pretty cool factor.

I do electric on my cars though

Just a 2 cent comment. Been flying for a bit now, and have flown with several different makes of engines, and sizes. 2 stroke and 4 stroke. I have to say, all of my engines start easy, idle well, transition from idle to wide open well, and run until I shut them off. A little attention to screws, rubber o-rings, fuel tanks, and engine mounts keep them that way.
If the airplane manufacturer calls for a .61 on that one, that would be the smallest I would go with. I think a .65 would be the largest. ASP is the best value you can buy, O.S. is great if you have the bucks for one. If you have really deep pockets, a Saito 4 stroke properly sized for the airplane would be great.
2-strokes will give you a bit more speed, 4-strokes will give you more thrust.
All of the above are simply my opinion, so, make your own choice. If it were mine, I'd use this K&b .65 I have on it.
A lot of engines can be bought second-hand in the classified section on RCU, and other discussion forums. They won't break your bank. Oh, by the way, don't forget about Evolution engines. Mine run great!!!
Just remember to have fun!!!:cool:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=1936914My son and I started trying to learn with that foam cub they push as a learner plane and almost gave up till we stopped by the local feild and learned of the buddy box system.That made such a difference! My son did his solo flight on his 12th birthday. Don't be afraid of asking for help at the feild if your willing to listen The trainer we started with had the old OS40, it was enough to fly the plane but we found that we were looking for more power once we learned to fly. The 61 Magnum will fly the plane well, think of looking into the next size up for later unless your thinking of the next type of plane,once my son did his solo he was ready for the next level of plane and hasn't flown the trainer since. Have Fun!! The sky's the limit!

Tim

electric plane
 

It's true that you could probably get into the air with a 60-sized glow motor for less money than 60-sized electric power. However, there's nothing like smooth, clean, quiet, reliable electric power. I converted all of my 60-sized glow planes to electric and I'm glad I did. To fly electric planes you would need:

- a charger
- a power supply
- ESC
- Lipo(s)
- electric motor (such as AXI 4120/14, 4120/18, Rimfire .60)
- Lipo power switch on plane such as an MPI #6970
- amp/volt/watt meter
- soldering iron and the ability to solder

But with electric you pay for your fuel up front. You buy the Lipo battery and as long as it continues to function....you have fuel.

That list is a lot of money. Just the cost of batteries will get you an engine, and it takes more than a basic 50 watt charger to do a 1C charge on them. I'll agree that electric is nice and convenient, but I have yet to find the break even point where the savings in fuel offset the greater startup cost. You gotta remember that the batteries don't last forever, so they are a consumable too.

Yes - the list is a lot of money. But some of the things in the list were bought just once such as the charger, power supply, soldering iron, power switch. My Lipo's last me 2 - 3 years. The motors are still functional. But I've been toasting my ESC's lately because of the aggressive props I've been using.

Doing glow then doing it at a minimum in quality I would go for this engine:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKF99&P=7

and you will not be sorry later. Also note this TT uses the rearward slant needle just like the AX's and that's a great thing as someone already pointed out.
In addition the best advice also was that to find a club first before making any purchases. The most important person that will be involved with your success is after all your mentor/instructor and these individuals are almost always left out on providing any help on your purchases and if you think about that is just plain backwards.

Another thought just occurred to me and that is that the majority of folks I have mentored into airplanes that were also into cars found that airplane soon became their primary interest and perhaps you should spend not so much on that Rustler VLX to provide yourself with better choices for your airplane(s). Especially the radios and engines.

I added that (s) on engines as you soon find this can become a lifetime passion with never enough aircraft.

John

What a guy!!!!

The hobby needspeople like you gesmale

Cheap? You can't buy the lipo battery for an airplane this size for the price of an ASP.Ou

Yep. Electric is easier, not cheaper.

Price of 6 cell Lipo
 

A Gens Ace 30c 5300 maH 6 cell Lipo from HobbyPartz.com costs $109.95. http://www.hobbypartz.com/98p-30c-5300-6s1p.html You might could get away with using 5 cells but I prefer to have 6 cells - lotsa power, 7 - 8 minute flight times. GensAce is an excellent battery, it has never swollen up, unlike my Blue lipo's or my very first battery which was a Thunderpower Pro-Lite 6-cell 5000 maH 25C. A 6-cell 30C Lipo (Turnigy or Zippy) from Hobby King runs $65 - $70.

A brand new ASP 61 2-stroke from HobbyPartz.com sells for $99.00. Holy crap.....how do they do that? http://www.hobbypartz.com/fm01-10-s6...troengine.html

The guitar,

Considering the suggestion made by Galloping Ghostler and the offer from George, IMO this should be a done deal.

Here is my 2 cents worth. The MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to learn how to fly RC is an instructor. Step 1 identify your mentor. Step 2 let him / her advise you all the way to solo flights. Let them decide with you the right engine etc.

if you read the description in the ad you will see it has a remote needle assembly. Ive own a couple os 61FXs and own two Magnum 61 XLs and the magnums are just as reliable as the os plus slightly more powerful. Actually if you compare an OS55AX versus OS 61FX the 55 will swing the same props faster.

Stopped in at my local hobby store today, they have some cool engines and a guy that comes in every week or so that knows everything about nitro planes, but the normal staff knows a lot too. They also told me about an awesome field to fly in with a paved airstrip and everything. I'm pretty excited to see my bird in the air. I really want to thank all of you guys for helping me out with all of your posts
and advice. I'll probably be back with another question sooner than later, but thanks everyone!