DISASTER!!!!
 

its a disaster!!! I was tuning the engine and was going to go taxi around the yard when DISASTER struck!! the prop came off.
well I have found the prop but the nut and washer thingy is stil AWOL. I took after them with a metal detector but no luck. no findie. well gues ill just have to go to the LHS and buy a sack full.

RE: DISASTER!!!!
 

One good thing is all your fingers are still there and the prop is not sticking out of your body some where

I'm glad you are OK.

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aw man if you think thats a disaster I can't wait to read your post when you crash!

Sean

RE: DISASTER!!!!
 

The "washer thingy" is called a "prop washer" and the nut is a "prop nut". These must be tightened down quite securely. We both know you don't have a LHS locally and no a home depot part won't work(extremely hard steel). You could probably borrow these for the weekend at the field while waiting for shipment from Tower or somewhere else. Did you have a spinner on? It probably would have captured the now missing hardware. Tighten nut with a 4-way or combination wrench. I use a socket wrench, 1/4 drive, myself. Don't want to break or strip anything but must be tight. Be glad prop didn't fly into your face. parts will only cost a couple of bucks and you can research and find at Tower. Gives you an excuse to order more stuff if you want. you know, glue, planes whatever. Good flying this weekend. I'll be here in morning and hopefully have flying weather by lunch time.

Bruce ;)

What kind/size of engine was it again?

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Yup, if it was me I'd be tryin to reach that $150 line for free supersaver club shipping, but then when I got there I'd have to get to the $199 line so I could get that $30 discount. An ARF or two is fully justified to save the cost of shipping a couple prop nuts and washers, right? :D

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bruce,
its a .40 size thunder tiger GP. Good news was that is spun right up with one "spin" of prime but when U try to start it with two or more spins of prim it will just spit it right back at ya. odd, but ok now I know how to do it. I took off the cone and cann't remember why. prolly should put it back on.

Piper_chuck: you are oficially addicted, time to call for help.

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Yup you're right, I'm addicted. I feel much better now. Knowing you have a problem is the first step toward recovery. So, now I ask for help! I need a couple props, should I add an uproar ARF and Modeltech ME109 or the GP Shoestring? :D

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Sarges,
My heart sank when I saw your thread title, and was really happy to see it was just a little lost hardware! [8D]

I have to agree with Piper Chuck, get out that credit card and buy more stuff!
Dennis-

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ohh noes, piper u really are in deep. this addiction cannont be fixed by your self, YOU MUST SEEK HELP!! It is to strong for you to handle alone, and that is where we have gone wrong. trying to right our selves by our selves. go get help, don't run to the flying field. they will just pull you back in. try the court house or some place like that, they usually have some help classes there.

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No, you only need one of each and a six inch wrench. Get that nut TIGHT. Don't be afraid of breaking it, you won't. ;)

RE: DISASTER!!!!
 

Srages,

Piper_chuck and the rest of us know we need help, if you think we will get it, not on your life and in a few more weeks you'll be the same way.

When I get to the LHS tomorrow I'll look to see if we have the prop washer for that engine. We have a box of small engine parts that is full of needle valves, washers, etc...

I'll PM you tomoorow evening aboutit

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PS,, If you threw the prop you might have been too lean. Might want to start it next time with the needle valve 2 or 3 clicks more open. Maybe not,, just something to check.

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Hey thanks bubagates!! that would be so cool!!

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Does double nutting work?

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don't know if double nutting would work. might try. wouldn't want to put put to much on there cause that would weigh down the engine. might try adding a small flattened area and using it to lock tight the prop nuts. that might work. would any one like to put in some coments on that idear??? purdy please.

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Ned took the words right outta my mouth.

CHECK THIS!!! If your engine is running too lean, you will ruin it

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Man i feel for you, i know to well the anguish a prop nut can cause, i tho had the oppiste proplem, i tightened my prop nut so tight that i could not get it off. I was trying to hand start my new OS .46 La (WASTE OF TIME) and got frustrate so i went to the shop and bought a starter a 12v Battery a nose cone and a few new glow plugs for good measure. When i got home and went to take of my prop i could not get it loose. I was trying so hard that i stripped the nut to a nice circle. Then i had to bright idea to get out the angle grinder and make new flut spots ( not my brightest moment when i look back). That failed to work as i just kept stripping the nut. Well then i decided to just gently grind away at the nut untill it fell off, makes sense right, well that didnt work either, so then i decided id get the hack saw out, cut of the prop, and try and loosen what was left of the prop nut from behind. After hacking of both sides of the prop i was left with the middle bit of the drive sharft with ALOT of cut marks in it but failed to get it off.

i think that had the be the worst day for me when it came to making dumb decisions. i still have the engine wth the middle of a porp on it and a angle grined pop nut. [&:]

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Chuck-
in your condition it is best NOT to make decisions like this. Buy everything and sort it out later. There is no other reasonable choice if you think about it.

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was invited out to a "local" field today. it was not a nice day to fly, but we had an itch that just had to be scratched. the weather soon brought us back to our sences though.
I asked the guys to look over the plane and tell me if any thing needed adjustment or any thing needs work. well some stuff did need to be worked on and that is good now. one thing about the engine, none of the dozen or so flyers at the field used abc type engines. I inquired as to why that was. they told me they didn't like them because they were not sute to the "dorking around" that we usually do at this field. appearantly ABC engines are suposedly only good for wide open throtle only, and not very well suited to the dinkin around type flying that these guys do(and what i want to do). so im thinkin of gettin rid of my abc engine and going with a .45-.50 OS RINGED engine.
The troubles a ABC can give you just don't seem worth it for a sunday flyer.

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Sarges,

I'll argue the statement about dorking around with an ABC engine. Seems to me my OS46AX engines loved to run at any throttle setting for as long as I wanted Now ringed engine is always better but not required

I did check the LHS today for the washer and we did not have one. I could order it but you would be just as well off ordering it from Tower Hobbies

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I'd ignore them and be happy with what you've got. If ABC engines were as limited as they said, they would not be anywhere near as popular as they are. I've got ringed and ABC engines. I've not had trouble with either kind. One of my ABC engines is an OS 25F ABC that I bought in the mid 80s. It runs great all through the throttle range, not just wide open.

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Good plan. Better go find my credit card and order before my wife comes home. :D

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A guy gave me a washer and a nut that would work for the engine. they held tight. I can vouch for that. we fliped and fliped that engine over and over (and we really had to bear down on it) and it would go for a little bit but then would be to tight for it to continue. my plane will not idle on the ground with out zooming away, if i turn it down any more it will die (probably from the engine being so tight)

the guys said they have never seen an engine that was so tight from the factory, it was so tight there electric starter would not turn it over untill we had hand cranked it a little. even then it did little good. the only advise they could offer is to warm it up with a covering iron or hair dryer. that might help. me don't know. I think I will still go get a ringed engine though.

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You are lucky the prop was not near when it departed, we had a gent have one come off at the bench and run up his bare wrist and arm. nothing that stitches in the emergency room could not fix. Forget the nonsense about the ABC engines being inferior, you will see at least five times as many of them as ringers at any club event, they start easily and run dependably and are easier to break in. Sounds like you could use some old fashioned help in starting and adjusting the engine and that is not easy to find sometimes. Hang in.

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Was this the case when it threw the prop while taxiing? It sounds to me like you lost the thrust washer along with the prop washer and nut. The thrust washer goes behind the drive hub. ABC engines are perfectly fine and well suited for the hobby, you don't need a ringed engine.

You don't need to double nut a 2-stroke. Just get the prop nut tight.

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ABC is a fine engine, I have abc and ring types. ABC are naturally tight at top of stroke. Your motor needs breaking in, that is all and do make sure all washers are there. I am not familiar with TT engines so I can not tell you about specific washer placements. I always use electric starter and spinner as I feel it is safer (and I am lazy- let's admit it OK) Worse come to worse and they are right about ABC (and they aren't) you already have it, what ya gonna do? Throw it away? Fly the dang thing after you run another 3 tanks thru it at home breaking it in. Ya got the time don't you? If your motor is tight thru entire rotation, something IS wrong/missing. Keep at it, it will come. Wanna spend some money? Don't buy engine- get electric starter and battery for it. IMHO

No double nut on 2 stroke, common on 4 stroke though

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sa what am I to do?? I do have a problem of this engine don't want to run at any thing below half throtle (acts like it wants to run but cant, I think we allready know why.) and I need idle to taxi. so should I just get me a extra engine mount from teh hobby shop and fashion me up a engine test stand?? that would be easier than trying to hold down a light easily breakable plane for the hours its gona take to make this engine into a broken in engine. mater of fact I think that will be todays project. take some wood and make an engine stand that I can clamp down to some thing and let run through a couple tanks of fuel.

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Take an old belt or piece of rope and loop it around the tail. Drive a stake or tire iron in the ground for an anchor to hold the plane in place. Shouldn't hurt anything. You said ground was soft from rain, should be easy enough to get stake in ground. Will motor not idle down because too tight or because mixture is wrong? Has it EVER idled? Like before the prop came off did it have these problems? Try to go back to the last KNOWN good condition. Had an Evolution motor the other day with a missing washer behind prop drive washer, felt OK until prop tightened down. Then could not turn it. Somewhere along the way a washer had come up missing. This MIGHT be your problem. Anyone out there more familiar with Thunder Tiger engines please chime in here. Sarges- is there a manual for your motor? If so does it show a part list or diagram? Look for a washer that may be missing. Don't give up. Hope you didn't run engine too lean and do damage to cylinder walls. That is anther slim possibility. Wish I could be there to look at it first hand.[&o]

Bruc

RE: DISASTER!!!!
 

Does the TT have ball bearings or bushings. On the EVO it has bearings and on the one I was talking about it was missing a thin washer that rode on the front of the front bearing behind the prop drive washer/flywheel. Without it the drive washer was dragging on the nose of the engine casting and sounded just like the complaint you are making. We found a small diameter thin washer to place in there and all was OK. You might try looking for such a washer around the house. When you had the prop come off the other day, did the drive washer behind it on the shaft also come off? If so, that is probably what is going on. These are VERY close tolerance machines you're dealing with.

Bruce

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I looked at the exploded diagram found in the manual and all washers and prop nuts are accounted for (I got a replacement prop nut and prop washer from the flying field, they have a box of extra little parts that people find lying around on the ground).
thing is when I run it at (aproximates here) 1/2 or more throttle it runs and does good, no sign of death. if I throttle it down it will die and the prop will be stuck at the "hard spot" im now assuming is TDC (Top Dead Center piston position). now I wonder if I let it run long enough to get hot ,like leave it on full throttle for 10 min., and then throttle it down to see how far I can get before I kill it. if its just tight when cold it should idle fine when warmed up and should run with a normal attitude. am I right??? Might be the basis for an experiment.

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Is rotation stiff thru entire rotation or just neat TDC?

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It really sounds like the low end is not set right. I'm assuming it's an "air bleed" type carb, which means the low end needle adjusts the amount of air the carb gets (rather than fuel). If this is the case then turning the low end needle clockwise will richen the mixture, counter-clockwise will lean it.

First thing I'd do is try adjusting that low end. If that doesn't work, then I'd say something truly is wrong with the engine.

Sure wish I could actually get my fingers on that thing for a few minutes. ;)
Dennis-

RE: DISASTER!!!!
 

just tight at the TDC spot. is realy easy to turn up to TDC point.
DBCherry: which way would you recomend to turn the air bleed screw?? richer? leaner? need more info? I had a pic around here some where.

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It is a characteristic of ABC to be tight at TDC, it would be bad if not. Again, not familiar with TT carbs so I will stay out of that issue except to say mixture may well be the problem. You never said if it ever did idle properly before. If so, what happened to motor just before it changed to where it would not? ABC engines ARE in general fine engines. You might have a bad one but I doubt it and it should idle fine and have a good midrange and top end as well. Sorry, but I feel the guys at the field may have steered you wrong on this issue. I know it is hard to know who to trust at times. I have several of both ABC and ringed engines with no real preference for either type. Yer having a little bad luck, let's not blame a whole class of engine, OK?

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I'm not sure if there is a problem here. The fact that you can get the engine started leads me to believe it's not excessively tight. I would have to agree with DBCherry, sounds like it just isn't tuned correctly.

RE: DISASTER!!!!
 

sarge,

I will assume this is a new TT .42 GP or at least a air bleed carb. If it is not, forget the following: First Be sure to break the engine in with 3 or 4 tanks. I wont go into that as there is many ways to do that. Search the forums for some great expert advise. Then, adjust the high end needle 3 or 4 clicks of the highest RPM. Next go to the idle tuning.

Without knowing what the engine sounds like when it goes to idle, I'd have to guess. I'd check the air bleed hole in the front and see if the idle screw is blocking 1/2 of the hole. That will be a good starting point. Assuming you have set the high end to full RPMS and backed off 3 or 4 clicks, and you still cant get it to idle start turning the idle air bleed screw out to lean about 1/8 at at time. That will be leaning the mixture. If it is getting better, you will be going in the right direction. If not set back to 1/2 and start turning it in 1/8 turn at a time. Then when you get it close, you'll have to go back to the high end and retune that. Then back to the low end for fine adjustment. You should be good to go.

ABC engines are great. They are no worse than a ring engine. Sounds like the guys at the field are from the old ring school. Or jellous of you purchase. Soon you will be flying rings around them and grining. :D

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Once the high speed is adjusted, slow the engine down to the point where it begins to falter. holding it there, pinch the fuel line with fingers or needle nose pliers (be careful of prop at all times)(this will LEAN the mixture) if the engine accelerates a little before quitting then you are too rich. If it quits immediately, you are too lean. Adjust bleed screw accordingly and try again lowering speed every time until you get idle speed. It is a balancing act but it can be done.

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If your engine only wants to work at wide open throttle then the fault may lie within the LOW SPEED adjust tneedle being too lean. The low speed needel adjusts from idle to upper mid range; the high speed needle works adjusuts only the wide open throttle portion.
Please have an experienced modeler fiddle with the low speed needle as they are a bit tricky:D

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Im not shure why U took the time to bold all of that. but if you took the time to actualy read what has been written you would see that is a carb equipt with ONE neadle valve and one Air Bleed Screw. there is no low end needle, period. thanks for trying but u need to look before you leap.

Ok, end rant.

bruce: ill give it a try when I get me a engine stand set up. not gona try to hold down plane while at full throttle, nuh-uh![&o]

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Did you get my PM ?