Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > Pattern Universe - RC Pattern Flying > Classic RC Pattern Flying
Reload this Page >

Making Molds of Classic Pattern Plane Fuselages & Parts to Keep them Alive for all of us to Enjoy!

Notices
Classic RC Pattern Flying Discuss here all pre 1996 RC Pattern Flying in this forum.

Making Molds of Classic Pattern Plane Fuselages & Parts to Keep them Alive for all of us to Enjoy!

Old 02-23-2015, 03:39 PM
  #601  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by doxilia
Mark,

based on those measurements, I calculate a MAC = 10.88". A simple area calculation would then be 65" x MAC = 707.2 sq in.

If the MAC was rounded off to 11" then the area would have been ~715 sq in and a 720 square wing would really require a MAC = Area/Span = 720/65 = 11.077"

The geometric area, tips included, gives me 678.9 sq in.

So it looks like you are right and the actual T720 wing area is less than 720 squares. It doesn't surprise me as I've come across that in just about every other plan that I've measured. Who knows how areas where calculated or, rather, specified 35 years ago but I'm sure being generous with their figures was not uncommon.

David
Dave, I've not seen anyone use the MAC to determine wing area before. MAC practically always will be a larger number than the average chord as you well know (for tapered planforms). It looks like your point is that some folks tended to skew the calculation slightly to suit?

In truth there's no practical flying difference between a 682 sq incher and a 707 sq incher at the typical weights our crates came out to.
Old 02-24-2015, 08:11 AM
  #602  
BERUSTY
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 1,141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I have both kits from the era including the Pulsar and Skybolt.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Old 02-24-2015, 08:11 PM
  #603  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MTK
Dave, I've not seen anyone use the MAC to determine wing area before. MAC practically always will be a larger number than the average chord as you well know (for tapered planforms). It looks like your point is that some folks tended to skew the calculation slightly to suit?
Hey Matt,

I don't spend much time over on RCU anymore as it has become a somewhat terse site to navigate. I think the whole site probably just needs to be re-started from scratch. But, it is nice to see the forum still getting some action.

In reply, yes, my mac x span "back of the envelope" approach is really just to get a quick idea of the area involved. A proper calculation can be done geometrically. You are right though in that I wanted to see if being generous in my area estimate would result in an area more closely approaching spec area and even though it overshoots the actual area it is typically still shy of spec area. So generally speaking it does seem that the classics (and perhaps still today although I'd be surprised if the scale folks do that too) tended to overstate the wing area of the model.

In truth there's no practical flying difference between a 682 sq incher and a 707 sq incher at the typical weights our crates came out to.
Perhaps not, but it does affect other calculations typically used or offered as specs. Stating that a model has 40 more squares than it actually does seems like a marketing ploy to reduce the wing loading of the model on paper. In the end, when you are designing models and offering specs on those designs, it seems erroneous to me to blatantly provide an over spec. I get a little hung up on things like that because I design and stating that a wing has 5 more inches in span than it does and consequently more area just compounds all other calculations downstream. In short, I can't see any good reason to do it but it doesn't worry me too much either.

David

Last edited by doxilia; 02-26-2015 at 10:01 PM.
Old 02-25-2015, 04:43 AM
  #604  
dhal22
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 5,711
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Good to hear from Rusty.
Old 02-25-2015, 09:44 AM
  #605  
stuntflyr
 
stuntflyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,891
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Yeah, he was a big deal in the start of the more visible Classic Pattern contests, his 2010 Chicagoland was my first Pattern contest ever.
Old 02-25-2015, 01:53 PM
  #606  
dhal22
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 5,711
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

He had a Blue Angel that I wanted.
Old 02-26-2015, 05:17 AM
  #607  
hook57
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apple River IL
Posts: 951
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dhal22
He had a Blue Angel that I wanted.
And it was a beauty of a Blue Angel too! I got lucky and picked up a BA last weekend (ala Sunshine of Germany, I think) along with a Curare from the same mfr.
Rusty did a great job with the Chicagoland Classic event, I met stuntflyr there in 2010.
Mark
Old 02-26-2015, 05:25 AM
  #608  
dhal22
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 5,711
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

Those are some European ARFs I'd like to get my hands on, I just don't ever pull the trigger.
Old 02-26-2015, 06:46 PM
  #609  
hook57
My Feedback: (21)
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Apple River IL
Posts: 951
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dhal22
Those are some European ARFs I'd like to get my hands on, I just don't ever pull the trigger.
These are not ARFs David. These have epoxy glass fuselages with fully sheeted foam cores, both also have a complete hardware bag that includes pre bent gear legs, firewall, balsa tips and caps, etc. I think the manufacturer was Wega Sunshine.
Mark
Old 02-27-2015, 03:35 AM
  #610  
dhal22
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Roswell, GA
Posts: 5,711
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

That's right, I do remember looking at those offers. Someday maybe.
Old 02-27-2015, 06:57 AM
  #611  
frequent flyer
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (6)
 
frequent flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default Patricia

Moises Sanchez

I received your email asking about the Patricia. Hopefully you are reading this thread. I answered your question,

Yes I have this kit, plans and parts are available for it.

I attached a list also but your email address failed.

Try emailing me again possibly from another different email address if you can and I'll try to reply using it.

regards
Don
Old 02-27-2015, 11:44 AM
  #612  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Don,

how far off are the Summits from production? Which one will be available first? Are they all being made from original glass fuses?

Cheers, David
Old 02-27-2015, 03:05 PM
  #613  
frequent flyer
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (6)
 
frequent flyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

All are original unbuilt kits that were glass fuses. I'm out of state on business this week. The curare is next because of all the paid orders, The Summit's will depend on the number of paid orders. But other than that I will just do them 123.
Old 03-05-2015, 10:52 AM
  #614  
stuntflyr
 
stuntflyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,891
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I have that Patricia kit, now I need a build helper. I have so many kits now, nice Sig wood pacs too.
Glad I met Don... glad Don actually met the challenge. How many cottage guys have fallen by the wayside since 2010? Don does this all by himself, not one helper. Especially not me!
Chris....
Old 03-14-2015, 04:25 PM
  #615  
mightyhorn
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Caldwell, ID
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Three I'd love
1) Jerry Nelson's Sultan
2) Dale Root's Ascender
3) Dale Root's Little Freak
Old 03-18-2015, 06:10 PM
  #616  
RC YEAGER
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SAN JUAN , PUERTO RICO (USA)
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Wow! Only know the Sultan... 1962 I think... I was born in 1964. If the rest are of same period were talking planes designed for reeds and R/C... I'm sure they're nice, but doubt they could be seriously used in CPA or SPA contests because of their compromised designs... Antique maybe? Probably make decent sport planes though...
Old 04-11-2015, 10:02 PM
  #617  
mobileraptor
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hello Frequent Flyer and all interested parties.

I posted in this thread several years back concerning an F1-Tomcat. Well after several moves and several jobs I have gotten to appoint where I feel I can get back into the hobby and start building again.

I picked this plane numerous years ago and am wondering if Frequent Flyer wound be interested in re-kitting it. I can still pull almost no history on this model and/or when it was flown or by who. I still find it a interesting kit with beautiful lines.


The kit is 100% untouched but the fuselage is not 100% perfect but with you skills you could probably have it ready to mold in very little time.

I would be happy to ship you the kit, all I would like is one kit in return once it is reproduced.


Here are some pictures to jog your memory.








Old 05-25-2015, 07:19 PM
  #618  
Yak13
My Feedback: (17)
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by doxilia
Excellent, glad to hear it. It's amazing what those AX's can pull. At close to 12 lbs and using a 90 class engine it is sort of in the 1980's TOC class.


Any time. Whatever you build, we look forward to seeing it!

I'll be coming out with a proper RE design in the spirit of the Arrow but.... different!
David, I just read this and would be very interested in your new Arrow spirited airframe. I love my Arrow and have a couple of RE Jetts that would really move it.

I especially like fast pattern planes, such as the Arrow. Sometimes overpowered according to classic standards, but the feeling is incomparable.

Ed
Old 05-25-2015, 11:59 PM
  #619  
crankpin
My Feedback: (15)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lake Placid,FL
Posts: 2,775
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

F-1 Tomcat. This is a first look for me. Should be getting back in the shop soon, been away too long.

Crank
Old 05-26-2015, 07:00 AM
  #620  
doxilia
My Feedback: (3)
 
doxilia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Yak13
David, I just read this and would be very interested in your new Arrow spirited airframe. I love my Arrow and have a couple of RE Jetts that would really move it.

I especially like fast pattern planes, such as the Arrow. Sometimes overpowered according to classic standards, but the feeling is incomparable.

Ed
Hi Ed,

thanks again for your inquiry. I replied to your post in the Mach-8 thread on RCG. If you can send me a PM with your email, we can discuss offline.

Cheers, David
Old 05-26-2015, 12:38 PM
  #621  
stuntflyr
 
stuntflyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,891
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by mobileraptor
Hello Frequent Flyer and all interested parties.

I posted in this thread several years back concerning an F1-Tomcat. Well after several moves and several jobs I have gotten to appoint where I feel I can get back into the hobby and start building again.

I picked this plane numerous years ago and am wondering if Frequent Flyer wound be interested in re-kitting it. I can still pull almost no history on this model and/or when it was flown or by who. I still find it a interesting kit with beautiful lines.


The kit is 100% untouched but the fuselage is not 100% perfect but with you skills you could probably have it ready to mold in very little time.

I would be happy to ship you the kit, all I would like is one kit in return once it is reproduced.


Here are some pictures to jog your memory.









That is one cool looking model. It'd look so good painted as a Hawker Hunter, which it looks so much like. Very cool.
Chris...
Old 07-05-2015, 02:29 AM
  #622  
thermaler
My Feedback: (46)
 
thermaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Buchanan, MI
Posts: 73
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Which Hartman Zeus fuselage would that be?
This one?



Thank You,
Joe

Originally Posted by Free Bird
FF - Awesome work! As David says, "Mold On!"

I have a Saturn fuse, a Cosmos 40 fuse (Atlanta 40 clone) and an Aurora 45 belly pan (yes FF, I know. I was to send this to you a few months ago. Please see your PM) that could be used for a mold if there is any interest. I also have an old Hartman Zeus fuse, but it'll need a lot of work to be useable for a mold.

FB
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Big Sailersmall.jpg
Views:	913
Size:	562.3 KB
ID:	2107541  
Old 07-05-2015, 02:33 AM
  #623  
crankpin
My Feedback: (15)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lake Placid,FL
Posts: 2,775
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

I remember the Hartman Zeus. Built one, no canopy, used the Taurus Wing cores We would modify the center section, make a swept wing, with straight TE.
Crank.
Old 07-05-2015, 04:48 AM
  #624  
Michaelj2k
 
Michaelj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RC YEAGER
Wow! Only know the Sultan... 1962 I think... I was born in 1964. If the rest are of same period were talking planes designed for reeds and R/C... I'm sure they're nice, but doubt they could be seriously used in CPA or SPA contests because of their compromised designs... Antique maybe? Probably make decent sport planes though...
They are more acclimated to VR/CS events. http://www.vintagercsociety.org
Old 07-05-2015, 04:54 AM
  #625  
Michaelj2k
 
Michaelj2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Newark, DE
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by thermaler
Which Hartman Zeus fuselage would that be?

Thank You,
Joe
FB's fuselage is the Zeus (Mk. I) which was designed to use the Taurus wing and tail. Hartman produced a number of fuselage designs, all called Zeus.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.