AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
08-11-2011 | 08:37 PM
#7
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
ORIGINAL: flywilly
SFA or SPA?
SFA or SPA?
AMA-SFA
What has me confused is a post (on my other thread relating to the Bridi XLT, Escape, and Great Escape) from RCM magazine stating the Great Escape was designed for AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern, the Escape was designed for AMA-FAI Turnaround Patter, abd the XLT was designed by Bridi for both.
If AMA and SFA are both insurance companies (essentialy), Why would you have a AMA-SFA? I'm lost here... It sounds as though the AMA-SFA were competitiors. I understand the AMA-FAI. Secondly, I don't understand why an airplane would be designed for AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern opposed to AMA-FAI Turnaround Pattern, unless SFA was a seperate entity from FAI competition. But... SFA is only an insurance. I do not understand.
I am confused.
Brian
08-11-2011 | 09:15 PM
#8
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
They aren't insurance companies, Brian.
AMA is the sole sanction for competition relating to competition in the USA for model aviation represented through the NAA, which is the official aviation sanction as the US Aero Club of the USA for all national and international competition and records to the FAI.
SFA was an alternative to the AMA and had their own competition rules, but were not the official US sanction to the FAI for competition or records, international or national. Even so, they both did have their own Pattern sequences.
These must have been different enough to make Joe Bridi draw up and market three different ships!
Chris...
AMA is the sole sanction for competition relating to competition in the USA for model aviation represented through the NAA, which is the official aviation sanction as the US Aero Club of the USA for all national and international competition and records to the FAI.
SFA was an alternative to the AMA and had their own competition rules, but were not the official US sanction to the FAI for competition or records, international or national. Even so, they both did have their own Pattern sequences.
These must have been different enough to make Joe Bridi draw up and market three different ships!
Chris...
08-11-2011 | 09:22 PM
#9
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
ORIGINAL: stuntflyr
They aren't insurance companies, Brian.
AMA is the sole sanction for competition relating to competition in the USA for model aviation represented through the NAA, which is the official aviation sanction as the US Aero Club of the USA for all national and international competition and records to the FAI.
SFA was an alternative to the AMA and had their own competition rules, but were not the official US sanction to the FAI for competition or records, international or national. Even so, they both did have their own Pattern sequences.
These must have been different enough to make Joe Bridi draw up and market three different ships!
Chris...
They aren't insurance companies, Brian.
AMA is the sole sanction for competition relating to competition in the USA for model aviation represented through the NAA, which is the official aviation sanction as the US Aero Club of the USA for all national and international competition and records to the FAI.
SFA was an alternative to the AMA and had their own competition rules, but were not the official US sanction to the FAI for competition or records, international or national. Even so, they both did have their own Pattern sequences.
These must have been different enough to make Joe Bridi draw up and market three different ships!
Chris...
THAT makes a lot more sence. Thank you sir!
Brian
08-11-2011 | 10:07 PM
#11
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
Hi Brian,
I think they are all three both historically and aesthetically true Classic designs. Being trike gear, 61 two stroke designs make them a lock-in for me.
Chris...
I think they are all three both historically and aesthetically true Classic designs. Being trike gear, 61 two stroke designs make them a lock-in for me.
Chris...
08-12-2011 | 01:56 PM
#12
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
The Sport Flyers Association (SFA) was an insurance organization only. They did not sanction competition flying in any way. Using their name in reference to competition is a mistake - period. It did not happen.
All of this discussion about which competition rules set that Joe may have used to design his models is jujst more marketing hype.
Ed Cregger
All of this discussion about which competition rules set that Joe may have used to design his models is jujst more marketing hype.
Ed Cregger
08-12-2011 | 03:40 PM
#13
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
Yeah, I was having a bit of trouble with why a Sport Flying Association would even have pattern competition rules...given that sport flyers, by definition, don't do competitions...
Evan, WB #12.
Evan, WB #12.
08-12-2011 | 08:01 PM
#14
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
I was wondering if the SFA might have had some of its own pattern contests. The AMA wouldn't allow a SFA member( or any other non -AMA member) to fly at one of its santioned AMA events. You had to be an AMA member to fly in the AMA contest trail. SFA could have tried its own Pattern event. Was anyone a SFA member? I know that RCM sure was pushing the SFA and had 6 or 8 pages of SFA News in their magazine. I guess I can try to find an old RCM magazine, but I sure can't remember.
turbo
turbo
08-13-2011 | 02:12 AM
#15
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
ORIGINAL: turbo.gst
I was wondering if the SFA might have had some of its own pattern contests. The AMA wouldn't allow a SFA member( or any other non -AMA member) to fly at one of its santioned AMA events. You had to be an AMA member to fly in the AMA contest trail. SFA could have tried its own Pattern event. Was anyone a SFA member? I know that RCM sure was pushing the SFA and had 6 or 8 pages of SFA News in their magazine. I guess I can try to find an old RCM magazine, but I sure can't remember.
turbo
I was wondering if the SFA might have had some of its own pattern contests. The AMA wouldn't allow a SFA member( or any other non -AMA member) to fly at one of its santioned AMA events. You had to be an AMA member to fly in the AMA contest trail. SFA could have tried its own Pattern event. Was anyone a SFA member? I know that RCM sure was pushing the SFA and had 6 or 8 pages of SFA News in their magazine. I guess I can try to find an old RCM magazine, but I sure can't remember.
turbo
A major selling point of the SFA was not supporting the competition flyers' activities with the sport flying memberships' dues money.
SFA was ANTI-COMPETITION. There were no competition events ever santioned by the SFA. It ran counter to their "ism".
Ed Cregger
08-13-2011 | 06:15 AM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Belfast, IRELAND
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
Wasn't the SFA promoted by RCM magazine called "Sports Flyers of America" Looked to me at the time to be just a commercial insurance company set up to capture some of AMA's business. I think the "brains" behind it was someone called Al Zlogar. Anyway, whatever it's purpose, it didn't last long despite lots of pushing in RCM. Not their finest hour [
]
There was also something called "United States Aeromodelers" mentioned in some magazines as an AMA alternative but again short lived.
Ray
]There was also something called "United States Aeromodelers" mentioned in some magazines as an AMA alternative but again short lived.
Ray
08-13-2011 | 06:49 AM
#17
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
This is the add that caused my question... This has been really interesting. It sounds as though whoever put the add together had no clue what theywere really saying. This must be a situation where the editing process was mistakenly looked over... or it was purposely confusing to create something out of the SFA that didn't exist... at least yet.
Wierd.
Brian
Wierd.
Brian
08-13-2011 | 09:11 AM
#18
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes
This is the add that caused my question... This has been really interesting. It sounds as though whoever put the add together had no clue what theywere really saying. This must be a situation where the editing process was mistakenly looked over... or it was purposely confusing to create something out of the SFA that didn't exist... at least yet.
Wierd.
Brian
I was SFA #NM2K. I would never have joined the SFA, but my club dropped the AMA and went strictly SFA, even after my months of campaigning to the contrary. I was among two or three other active competitors in those days and it just galled the hell out of some members that their dues money, sent to the AMA, was supporting our competition efforts, although miniscule they were. So, I just kept my AMA membership and sent $20 to the SFA. In the grand scheme of things, it didn't hurt a bit. I did like being able to use my ham callsign as my SFA number.
Ed Cregger
This is the add that caused my question... This has been really interesting. It sounds as though whoever put the add together had no clue what theywere really saying. This must be a situation where the editing process was mistakenly looked over... or it was purposely confusing to create something out of the SFA that didn't exist... at least yet.
Wierd.
Brian
I was SFA #NM2K. I would never have joined the SFA, but my club dropped the AMA and went strictly SFA, even after my months of campaigning to the contrary. I was among two or three other active competitors in those days and it just galled the hell out of some members that their dues money, sent to the AMA, was supporting our competition efforts, although miniscule they were. So, I just kept my AMA membership and sent $20 to the SFA. In the grand scheme of things, it didn't hurt a bit. I did like being able to use my ham callsign as my SFA number.
Ed Cregger
08-13-2011 | 04:30 PM
#20
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 939
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Norco, CA
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
Double Wooow!
I originally posted that Bridi ad in the other thread and sounds like I opened up a can of sour grapes. Not my intention. I scour the pages of the RCM magazines I have and was amazed to find this interesting ad.
I guess this a case of the chicken and the egg e.g. the ad says the Great Escape was Designed for SFA which is why I posted the ad in the first place. Anyone know if this is true or not.
Inew about AMA FAI turnaroundand Pre turnaroundPattern but had no Idea what AMA-SFA was. From the ad it appears that Bridi was marketing a plane to SFA in case it took off. From reading this thread it sounds as if the whole SFA thing was a huge flop.
I have to agree with Brian as I've been completely flabbergasted by this interestering ad.
Bryan
</p>
08-13-2011 | 07:42 PM
#22
My Feedback: (3)
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
As often happens, the marketing department probably figured it would try to appeal to members of the "other" group. I strongly doubt that Joe designed any of those models for what that ad says. Frankly, at that stage of his career, he probably designed them to increase his retirement comfort...
But... that doesn't take away from their cool lines!
The fuse designs strike me as somewhat unnecessarily complex - after all, they are still basic box designs, it really is all about the planform. The Deception still strikes me as the simplest and easiest to build "box like" classic fuse.
David.
But... that doesn't take away from their cool lines!
The fuse designs strike me as somewhat unnecessarily complex - after all, they are still basic box designs, it really is all about the planform. The Deception still strikes me as the simplest and easiest to build "box like" classic fuse.
David.
08-13-2011 | 08:27 PM
#23
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
Something also not mentioned, the "turnaround" part. Back then each manuver exited the box and you turned around and did the next one. the turn was unscored. I think
08-14-2011 | 05:11 AM
#24
My Feedback: (31)
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
This is not correct, it wouldn't be "turn around" then it would be AMA pattern. FAI started flying "in the box" and then AMA made a class called "Expert Turn Around" which only lasted a few years until the AMA pattern went to turn around for all classes. Lower classes were allows to exit the box twice then re-enter.
Tim
Tim
08-14-2011 | 05:15 PM
#25
My Feedback: (3)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Tallahassee,
FL
RE: AMA-SFA Turnaround Pattern
Actually, AMA phased in the turnaround concept. In the mid-80's only FAI was turnaround - AMA was still the single maneuver per pass. From 1984-86 AMA allowed one to enter the standard AMA class as well as the FAI (turnaround) class. I had several years when I could fly two classes per contest (I flew Masters and FAI). That was fun! You got to fly twice as much as those in the other classes. Eventually, turnaround style maneuvers were put into the lower classes.
Jeff
Jeff
