Does Price Determine Reliability ?
#1
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Does Price Determine Reliability ?
Need some opinions here. I have heard good and bad about Hobby King, more good then bad. Looking at the new MA today, HK has a 4 or 5 page ad, on most items we can use. Recently, I paid $114.99 each, plus postage for JR 8411 digital servos. Alloy gears, 155 oz. @ 6V. HK is advertising a digital servo, 197 oz. torque, alloy gears, @ $31.08 each, and shipping of course. HK only shows their servos in metric, so it is 5.60 KG, everything is round figures here, not splittin' hairs. I just picked out a same chl TX, everything looks the same, and the name JR is on the HK ad, $100.00 less. To me, a TX purchase for only a C note, not worth it, because of Horizons service.
Is the HK servos, where I can purchase 4 of described above, for the price I pay for one, here in the states? Is this good stuff ? Has the manufacturers given the US Distributors a certain time of lead, before they go direct, lets say from China, Saipan, Korea, or wherever ? Then it is a free for all. Is this product that is being or is discontinued from the main pipeline, and selling old stuff? Looks new and same to me, as the Horizon ads.
I have to say this. I have had the best service out of Horizon, thru the years. There were times when I sent my CC # along with my gear, and the invoice came back, at NC. Horizon has upgraded receivers for me, N/C, and has gone thru my X9303, with a small service charge. IMO, can't beat the service. I need more servos, same as the 8411's. Do I take a chance on 4 generics @ $31.08 each, X 4 = $125.00 plus shipping, or pay $460.00 plus shipping for the 4 JR 8411's ? What would you do ? This may have been talked out already, but need some opinions. Are the cheapies, JR's ? What about Dymond servos ?
Thanks for reading, and any comments.
Crank
Is the HK servos, where I can purchase 4 of described above, for the price I pay for one, here in the states? Is this good stuff ? Has the manufacturers given the US Distributors a certain time of lead, before they go direct, lets say from China, Saipan, Korea, or wherever ? Then it is a free for all. Is this product that is being or is discontinued from the main pipeline, and selling old stuff? Looks new and same to me, as the Horizon ads.
I have to say this. I have had the best service out of Horizon, thru the years. There were times when I sent my CC # along with my gear, and the invoice came back, at NC. Horizon has upgraded receivers for me, N/C, and has gone thru my X9303, with a small service charge. IMO, can't beat the service. I need more servos, same as the 8411's. Do I take a chance on 4 generics @ $31.08 each, X 4 = $125.00 plus shipping, or pay $460.00 plus shipping for the 4 JR 8411's ? What would you do ? This may have been talked out already, but need some opinions. Are the cheapies, JR's ? What about Dymond servos ?
Thanks for reading, and any comments.
Crank
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
The fact that you are "asking the question" actually says a lot....I have been through the same dilemma and here is my opinion:
I was preparing my first 50cc gas airplane which was a Great Planes Christen Eagle II. The large scale servos that I had specked out from JR were pretty expensive and I opted for some Power HD servos from Troy Built Models at a fraction of the cost. Today I am "nervous" when I fly that plane...I have had no troubles with the servos but it's in the back of my mind pretty much all the time...I got extra servos "just in case" but what are the chances of the servos failing on the ground??
Long and short of it is: If I had it to do all over again I would buy JR or Hi-Tec servos just for the piece of mind...
Just my .02...
Chuck
I was preparing my first 50cc gas airplane which was a Great Planes Christen Eagle II. The large scale servos that I had specked out from JR were pretty expensive and I opted for some Power HD servos from Troy Built Models at a fraction of the cost. Today I am "nervous" when I fly that plane...I have had no troubles with the servos but it's in the back of my mind pretty much all the time...I got extra servos "just in case" but what are the chances of the servos failing on the ground??
Long and short of it is: If I had it to do all over again I would buy JR or Hi-Tec servos just for the piece of mind...
Just my .02...
Chuck
#3
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
Atlanta, I mirror your sentiments.
I see guys at the Field talking about the great deal that they got at this or that hobby place and then watch as their plane goes out of control. But they'll continue to go back there because it's 'such a good deal'.
Then, using servos as an example, I would have a hard time spending $75 on something that small. They're massed produced with very little human intervention. They're making a lot of $$ image that they create. Profit is not a dirty word, but overcharging is...
It would be nice to see a quality product produced and sold for a fair price. This way, you would spend a little more than the cheap brands, but you get that peace of mind.
Just my $.02.
Bob
I see guys at the Field talking about the great deal that they got at this or that hobby place and then watch as their plane goes out of control. But they'll continue to go back there because it's 'such a good deal'.
Then, using servos as an example, I would have a hard time spending $75 on something that small. They're massed produced with very little human intervention. They're making a lot of $$ image that they create. Profit is not a dirty word, but overcharging is...
It would be nice to see a quality product produced and sold for a fair price. This way, you would spend a little more than the cheap brands, but you get that peace of mind.
Just my $.02.
Bob
#4
RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I am currently using HK in all my flat foamys and none have failed. The foam right behind the engine failed (Lowes blue flat foam) twisted right off from the torque of the engine, stress failure I guess.
But I'm having the same feelings as others about trusting inexpensive servos in a plane that I spent alot of time building. I can say this from my electronics background - if the electronics work out of the box the only reason for failure would be bad solder joints on the servos circuit board or an overvoltage.
You are paying a higher price for the quality control of JR, Hitec, Futaba, etc.. If you're handy withpintipped solder iron you could take apart the HKservo's and do the QC yourself.HK, Hobby Partz, hardly have a warrenty at all, which translates into poor quality control IMO..
As an example my LHS was blowing out 11 generic micro servo's that orginally went for $15 ea. Not HK but Made inChina.I purchased all 11 for $2ea. One of the 11 didn't work out of the box. Took it apart and the positive wire lead was disconnected right at the circuit board a typical cold solder joint. There was solder on the wire and the pad where it was suspose to be attached. So I figured the person whose job it was didn't hold the wire good enough.
I got out my soldering iron and resoldered it. Works fine now. Did I go back and check the other 10 by opening them up and looking at the solder joints? Nope. Who has the time. The other 10 worked out of the box. Besides they're in flat foamys anyway. On the other hand,I've got Futaba servo's in my Kaos.
I'm moreworriedaboutthe switches that come with myradios. A friend had a Killer Chaos that he flew regularly. One day I showed up just in time to catch it glitch twice while in a turn. Went striaght in. We picked up the pieces put the elctronics back together and it turned out that the positive wire from the battery to the switch, right where the wire went intothe switch,broke inside the wire from flexing. Found it by pluging everything back in and moving the wires around. Too bad really liked watching him fly it.
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
psychology is a big part of the answer...
In china, you ll get what you want for the price you want.... quality is the adjustment...
anyway, you can buy a famous brand, it will be build in china in any case..;
most of time, it will be a rebadged chinese quality product.
Power hd is an example of a very good product at low price.
as a rule of thumb, at hk, buy the most expansive "low cost" product, and you won t be disappointed.
I'll have trouble saying that, but it s much better to install an fr sky module and receiver (the best system on my opinion) in a model than buying an expensive spektrum system.
I had 3 spektrum sets, all of them has produced very regulary lock out. (sure i don't now how to install a radio set)
It has never happened with ANY other brand.
To tell you the truth, i m very satisfied whith hk products, as long as i don't buy all the first prices items.
In china, you ll get what you want for the price you want.... quality is the adjustment...
anyway, you can buy a famous brand, it will be build in china in any case..;
most of time, it will be a rebadged chinese quality product.
Power hd is an example of a very good product at low price.
as a rule of thumb, at hk, buy the most expansive "low cost" product, and you won t be disappointed.
I'll have trouble saying that, but it s much better to install an fr sky module and receiver (the best system on my opinion) in a model than buying an expensive spektrum system.
I had 3 spektrum sets, all of them has produced very regulary lock out. (sure i don't now how to install a radio set)
It has never happened with ANY other brand.
To tell you the truth, i m very satisfied whith hk products, as long as i don't buy all the first prices items.
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I still think you get what you pay for. Maybe short term the servo will last but if it fails can you get parts to repair or is it just disposable. If you are flying a plane with servo reliability on your mind then I would guess the enjoyment is reduced (and possibly safety). I have used cheaper servos but they are relative to the cost of the plane.
These days most of my planes are decked out with Hitecs which are pretty good servo for price and I have had no issues. Then again I remember all those years ago when Hitec was coming into the market and no one I knew would touch them. Now they seem a very popular choice for planes of all sizes.
These days most of my planes are decked out with Hitecs which are pretty good servo for price and I have had no issues. Then again I remember all those years ago when Hitec was coming into the market and no one I knew would touch them. Now they seem a very popular choice for planes of all sizes.
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
Hey Crank,
Brian's second paragraph hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. Why would somebody go cheap on servo's or anything else in a plane you spend countless hours building and finishing? To me, it's just not worth it.
Just my $0.02 worth.
David
Brian's second paragraph hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. Why would somebody go cheap on servo's or anything else in a plane you spend countless hours building and finishing? To me, it's just not worth it.
Just my $0.02 worth.
David
#9
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
Yes. But it does not guarantee anything. I've been flying R/C since 1969 and equipment reliability has increased incredibly. I've had top of the line servos die due to electronic component failure in the pre-IC days. I lost an Aeromaster about 30 years ago when one of the servo gears slipped out of the gear train (elevator servo, of course). Post crash examination revealed that failure was due to a ganging of tolerances (or intolerances) plus some wear of the plastic gears. It worked fine after I put it back together, but turn it upside down and cycle it or just tap it and the gear would slip.
Good servos (any brand) cost more, but consider your total investment and how long you plan to use the servos. I have Futaba S9252 digitals in an MK Topstar which have 600+ flights and are still working flawlessly with no gear slop. If you fly glow or gas powered airplanes, engine soft mounting significantly increases servo life. I don't miss cleaning servo pots every 50 flights like I did back in the 'good old days'.
- Will
Good servos (any brand) cost more, but consider your total investment and how long you plan to use the servos. I have Futaba S9252 digitals in an MK Topstar which have 600+ flights and are still working flawlessly with no gear slop. If you fly glow or gas powered airplanes, engine soft mounting significantly increases servo life. I don't miss cleaning servo pots every 50 flights like I did back in the 'good old days'.
- Will
#10
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
My grandma always told me to buy the best and you're never disappointed. I don't always follow that rule and I'm often disappointed. I know this has nothing to do with no-name chinese servos and their reliability, but I'm tired of buying disposable items that aren't supposed to be disposable. (My Brinkman gas grill I bought from Home Depot is a prime example) This has nothing to do with country of mfg, but the company representing the product. Good luck getting any kind of "service" from Hobby King. The premium you pay for a name-brand servo from a reputable company with a track history of good customer service is worth the premium in price -in my mind anyway.
#11
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I bought from HK a few times a long time ago but have found much better sources since then. Never spend more than you are willing to flush down the toilet when you deal with them. I would never consider buying large items(planes , etc..) or big ticket items(engines, etc..) from them as they have NO service after the sale. Their own brand of servos are in part re-badged Power HD servos.
As far as selling brand name items at HK I know they get around distributor agreements and will buy from an unscrupulous overseas distributor ,sell it below what most US/Europe based dealers can sell it for and undercut them. They only buy enough product to skirt the law or where it costs more for the manufacturer to prosecute.
I would look for a US based company and try and buy product from them. There are some chicom items that only HK seems to carry but for the most part what they sell can be found elsewhere.
As far as selling brand name items at HK I know they get around distributor agreements and will buy from an unscrupulous overseas distributor ,sell it below what most US/Europe based dealers can sell it for and undercut them. They only buy enough product to skirt the law or where it costs more for the manufacturer to prosecute.
I would look for a US based company and try and buy product from them. There are some chicom items that only HK seems to carry but for the most part what they sell can be found elsewhere.
#12
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I am a die hard JR user and have been since 1980, when the Futaba J took a dump on my pristine Arrow.
Horizon's service has been outstanding, often replacing components for free. I'll never forget the fact that they replaced my broken Webra 145 sent it for service with a brand new W160 at N/C.
Yet, i've played with other servos, both, certain Futabas,Hi Techsand Spektrums, and most recently a couple medium/small sized Savox. I always come back to JR servos. To me, they have proven to be most reliable over the decades
As far as Hobby King, forgetaboutit. Never again
Horizon's service has been outstanding, often replacing components for free. I'll never forget the fact that they replaced my broken Webra 145 sent it for service with a brand new W160 at N/C.
Yet, i've played with other servos, both, certain Futabas,Hi Techsand Spektrums, and most recently a couple medium/small sized Savox. I always come back to JR servos. To me, they have proven to be most reliable over the decades
As far as Hobby King, forgetaboutit. Never again
#13
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I will say that price isn't always an indication of reliability. I know that the expensive servos are generally good...but they are made as cheap as possible and have a large markup from the sellers, too. I have been using the $13 Power HD 1501s and have nothing but success with them. Lots of good reports for these servos if you search for them.
#14
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
This is one of those tough calls. I immediately think Range Rover or Jaguars when somebody says higher costs offer better reliability. They are some of the worst vehicles you can buy for reliability but yet are very, very expensive.
However, I think with electronics you generally get what you pay for.
You can have any two of the following: Cheap, Speed/Torque/Centering, or Reliable but never all three at the same time.
However, I think with electronics you generally get what you pay for.
You can have any two of the following: Cheap, Speed/Torque/Centering, or Reliable but never all three at the same time.
#16
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I have never bought anything but name brand equipment and have had excellent luck spending the extra money. However in no way would I try and talk you out of buying anything you personally want. I would howeverlike to pass on some advice from my Dad who said : "remember, it;s always the pioneers who end up with arrows stuck in their butt". Good luck buddy, keep us informed of your decision and the results.
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
I lost 2 planes with nothing but the best PTS P51 with 821 digitals,AR7000 receiver, 2300 mah 6 volt, new Evo 60nx new everything that made it through 1.5 flights. I must have had $600.00 in her. Now she's in a Glad bag.
New Revolver 40/60 sized with a new 821 digitals, AR6200 new reciever, spiraled into a nose dive hitting paved street losing engine and everything.
I can't say good money guarantees good flight. After these recent losses, I'd be willing to spend less and lose less.
New Revolver 40/60 sized with a new 821 digitals, AR6200 new reciever, spiraled into a nose dive hitting paved street losing engine and everything.
I can't say good money guarantees good flight. After these recent losses, I'd be willing to spend less and lose less.
#19
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
ORIGINAL: daggets
welcome in spektrum world!!
welcome in spektrum world!!
what a friggin troll. specktum had nothing to do with his crashes.
JR 821 are not high end servos....
High price doesnt mean the best.
The best servos on the market should be by brand but what is offerent in them.
To me the best servos are ones that have a brushless motor and magnetic encoding for the "pot". these should work the same forever barring gear changes. These are offered from JR, Futaba and Bluebird from HK ( 100 dollars or so).
All electronics can fail at any given time. most all electronics are built by humans or have a human factory in them. Us humans fail more offten than the electronics.
I have a couple of guys at the field and they use nothing but HK servos and batteries. Thye only buy the Blue Bird servos though. The ones I have seen come with better equipment than higher priced servos. some come with aluminuim horns that are thick and pre tapped for ball links. The Hitec aluminum horn is very weak..
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
Hello there.
If you got to a site such as hobbyking you will be able to see the actual reviews from people who buy this stuff.
In the case of cheap servos some people accept a constant failure rate. I was looking for some slim wing servos for a glider and could get Hitecs and the alternative Turnigy or Corona which are anywhere from 1/5 to 1/2 the price and fail in use. Some people buy 6 knowing 2 will fail even before the get the damn thing airborne.
My brother in law buys Corona h duty steering servos for his DS gliders. They are very poor and develope slop and develope poor centering.
I have only ever used Jr 8611, futaba premium 9252,9351 and Hitec 5945/5925 on my glow helis, and 50/80cc plank stuff.
I use hitec on my DS gliders.
I've got Hitecs on my sebart angel.
Xxxxxcxxxxxxcxxcxxxcc
I've never lost a servo
Xxxxxxxcccccccccc
Sorry but you do get what you pay for. A couple of years ago there was a anti Hitec group of people on here who would just slate them. Probably what we now call trolls. I've used Hitecs for years on glow helis without problem.
Rodders
If you got to a site such as hobbyking you will be able to see the actual reviews from people who buy this stuff.
In the case of cheap servos some people accept a constant failure rate. I was looking for some slim wing servos for a glider and could get Hitecs and the alternative Turnigy or Corona which are anywhere from 1/5 to 1/2 the price and fail in use. Some people buy 6 knowing 2 will fail even before the get the damn thing airborne.
My brother in law buys Corona h duty steering servos for his DS gliders. They are very poor and develope slop and develope poor centering.
I have only ever used Jr 8611, futaba premium 9252,9351 and Hitec 5945/5925 on my glow helis, and 50/80cc plank stuff.
I use hitec on my DS gliders.
I've got Hitecs on my sebart angel.
Xxxxxcxxxxxxcxxcxxxcc
I've never lost a servo
Xxxxxxxcccccccccc
Sorry but you do get what you pay for. A couple of years ago there was a anti Hitec group of people on here who would just slate them. Probably what we now call trolls. I've used Hitecs for years on glow helis without problem.
Rodders
#23
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
yes i had 3 spektrum set and none has worked properly.... i m not the only one....
my name is lionel lenord, i m not a troll...
And you know what? i m proud to be french!
will you survive your heart attack?
my name is lionel lenord, i m not a troll...
And you know what? i m proud to be french!
will you survive your heart attack?
#24
My Feedback: (6)
RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
To all the above I belong to a small club (last 20 years) we as a group have mostly gone to HITECH,JR and Futaba We have all tried servo's from H/K & H/L not necessarly the cheepies, and we all have had failures in all brands, but the failures in HITech JR and Futaba have been vary minimal, we have found most crashes are pilot error, and/or push rod flexing to be the most proment causes, then it is engine failures. The radio and electronic failures have been The std. switches and poor battery maintance for the most part.
So basicaly i/we have come to the conclusion YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
Just my 2 pennys worth
Cheers Bob T
So basicaly i/we have come to the conclusion YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
Just my 2 pennys worth
Cheers Bob T
#25
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RE: Does Price Determine Reliability ?
Might be reasonable to consider re-sale value when purchasing expensive equipment. If you were to offer those servos for sale down the road, which do you think would bring the most money? Perhaps those JR, Futaba or Hitec servos are not as expensive as they seem.