Don't know if you guys know are not, but thought I would post for those that had never seen. Sunshine is out of Germany with ARFS of alot of the classic Pattern planes.

Voodoo

http://www.wega-sunshine.de/english/...ml?d_17772.htm

Wow, there is an Oxi-moron. It's like Jumbo Shrimp.

Classic Pattern ARFs never really existed. One of the things that gives the SPA or Classic Pattern concept its appeal is the realtionship the pilot had with his model. In most cases, he built the model that he competed with. He either bought and built a kit that was designed by champion or he designed one himself which had him selecting everything from the size and shape of the actual aircraft to the grade of the wood that he would use. The satisfaction was derived from not only flying the prescribed maneuvers but by doing it with the machine that he built from the ground up. Another discipline of Model Aviation that is slowly fading away in favor of immediate gratification and the toying-down of Model Airplanes.

is this the old farts pattern site where you spend weeks building a plane and over $200 on a designe that might fly as well as the new designed ARFs that can be in the air in 10 hours that fly better in most cases? if it is I must be in the correct place.

Yes Taildragger; this is the place for people who KNOW how to BUILD (or will happily help others learn), take great pride in their work, don't worry about the bubble gum letting go in the fuselage to hold the wing on, aren't happy that their plane looks like everybody elses, don't use airplanes for helicopters, can fly a slow roll from horizon to horizon, and enjoy pattern as it was yesterday and still enjoy pattern today. Need any help????


Deadstik

That is one of the coolest things about having classic aircraft is that you get to build them yourself!!! There are a few kits available and lots of plans to build from.

. . . And when someone came to look at your model and asked "Did you build that?" You could say "Yes I did" and didn't have to appologize and say "no, but some 12 year old girl in Taiwan did".

well lets see, I can build a kit, havent tried just using plans. As to taking pride in my work, I attain to be a average builder. I allways check the bubble gum holding my wings on and apply more if needed. Don't really care what other planes look like. I couldn't do a torque roll if my life depended on it. I cant do a slow roll from horizon to horizon but can do a pretty good knife edge and stall turn. I don't know how pattern was done way back then but am learning pattern as good as one can teach themselvs, as no one on our club flys pattern of anykind. I don't apoligise for any of my models wether built by me or that 12 year old from Taiwan. And yes If there is a model that I can build with sticks that will take a 91FX im ready to dig in, what do you sugest.This is what I currently fly

As I remember a good many of the classic birds were offered as an ARF from an outfit in Mexico, when the desings were current.

Guys I appologize if I have offended any of you by posting the website. I was only trying to help anyone trying to get into patterns easily. I agree with all of you that there is no better feeling than the sight of something you built from sticks and blocks of wood take to the air and fly.

Voodoo

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Kind of like flying a radio controlled pumpkin while riding a unicycle? <G>

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I remember them being offered as kits with fiberglass fuselages and foam wings from Brownsville, Texas. The ARFS must have come after I dropped out of pattern in 84.

This was in the late 70's. I guess ARf is the wrong term. They were built up wood with foam wings. They came as an ARC and they were pretty good quality as I remember. My first Curare came from them, I was a lazy teen ager at the time LOL. It flew a lot better than my skills at the time could keep up with. LOL

I think it is great to see these old designs again. I am far from offended!

I had a World Engines ARF of Wolfgang Matt's Super Star if anyone remembers it. It was molded plastic fuse with foam wings based on Laniers method of plastic on foam. Used as OS 60 Gold head in it.

Jeff

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Now that you mentioned it, didn't Hobby Barn sell a lot of the type of models you are describing?

If my memory serves me correct... This model was made by OK Models Co. in Japan. World Engines was the one who imported them to the states. OK Models was, for the most part, the first company to offer a true ARF plane back in the early 70's. I do remember them being fragile and next to impossible to fix.

Yeah I think Hobby Barn did too. But the ones I remember were advertised in the back of model aviation and they were impoted from Mexico by an outfit out of Texas, as I remember the quality was very good, although you had to take a good look at all of the glue joints in the fuse.

I have been racking by brain trying to think of the name of that "company in Texas" that distributed the Mexican-made "pre-fabs" (Ready to Cover) wood models. I bought a couple and still have an RCM Trainer that they produced and I used to teach my son how to fly on. Their name is "NAME Manufacturing" or Name MFG. They were nicely made balsa models with sheeted foam wings. If I remember correctly, they were pretty sparse on the hardware side but they were nicely sanded and ready to iron on your own covering. If I really believed my memory, I would suggest that Jim Simpson had a hand in this business. Jim use to work for EK Logictrol back in the mid 70s later I found that he was "dealing" in these kits as a distributor.
A mutual friend of ours use to bring the models up to Oklahoma in trade for the Kraft servos he didn't need. This was about 1982 when Joe Gross bought a Kraft Signature Series radio but liked the new JR servos better so he would trade off the new Kraft servos for these NAME MFG kits.

I don't remember what all designs they made but I do know that I still have the RCM Trainer with a K&B 40 pumper still in it.

Hopes this helps.

I really do admire a guy who can build a piece or art that flies. I have the skill and experience to build from plans, kit, or ARF. In the last couple of years, this hobby has seen a change much like that of my passion of earlier days. 25 years ago, my first computer was such a rarety in a house that friends came over just to see what it was. As a programmer, I learned quite a bit. When Windows came on the site around 1990 all the old timers complained that people were taking the easy way out. But this also opened the door to so many people that computers are very common and easy to use (compared to the days of DOS and assembler). I never hear of people complaining about the dumbing down of this industry anymore. But they are very happy about how mass production has dropped the prices. No one seems to be complaining that these parts are made in Asia either.

Now back to RC aircraft; In the last four years, I have built 5 kits, 7 ARFs and 1 from plans. With my time being so restricted now with kids, work, and continuing education, I have really come to appreciate the ARF. My first ARF was a 1978 Jayhawk Arrow (ewww!) My last was a H9 Ultra Stick last October. (I have bit a GP Big Stik and Tower Kaos for club members in the last few weeks) I have found that I much prefer spending 40 hours flying over 40 hours building. When it comes to pattern ARFs, There aren't that many around, so I don't see much argument in my plane looking like everyone elses. One other note, Composite ARFs are NOT cheap, and for some reason, these aren't criticized as being ARF junk. Now why does that sound like a double standard?

As for the girl in Taiwan? well, first off, this is a better job than she might have otherwise. (Most ARFs are from mainland China anyway) Second, because she builds the same model over and over, she is going to be a FAR better builder than someone looking to get into Pattern without a husge time investment. Finally, the last three ARFs I have seen are built fairly well, with my only concern being for the way the leading edge rib extension is used to secure the wing to the model.

Lets face it, ARFs are a better buy, a better than average build (name brand counts), faster to assemble, and introduce new people to a wonderful hobby. It begins to sound elite-ish to suggest that someone who builds the aircraft is in some way superior to the person who purchases it.

Bob

Bob,

My response to Taildragger was simply to point out that there is much more to this hobby than shaking an airplane from the box and going flying. He seemed confused as to why someone would build. I gave him the answer.

You will always get what you pay for...you buy a $130 arf.. that's what you have.... one of a thousand planes that looks exactly like the other 999, but all 1000 made as cheaply as possible. I choose not to fly one. A better buy??? I don't think so. If you fly pattern and drop $2700 on an Oxai plane, more power to you..but for that kind of money you get a beautiful handcrafted plane....no double standard there.. I don't really think that planes in that category can be called ARFs... they are custom built aircraft...purpose built for one reason...to fly pattern. Does it take too long to build a plane? I don't think so... I have deadlines at work...not in my workshop. My time there is free.

As to is a builder "elitest" to the person who just buys a plane???? Sure he/she is....as is anyone who has put in the time/energy to learn how to turn anything from a pile of various materials into something that can fly/float/drive/compute/and give the birds a safe place in the winter. Pattern season starts soon....and I'm going to go have some fun in the shop....until the weather clears....


Deadstik

I agree. There are Builders and there are Flyers and there are "Modelers". Nothing wrong with being any one that you wish. "Elitist" only if you think that there is some higher rating for being a builder. Personally, I would rather fly than build any day. But if it wasn't for the flying I never would have had the motivation to do all the building that I have done over the last 45 years. But if it wasn't for the building, I wouldn't have nearly the grandest memories and accomplishments that I now enjoy. Getting back on track, this discussion is about the albeit few ARFs that might be considered as belonging to the classification of Classic Pattern. My only point is to attempt to explain why there are so FEW and that is something of what delineates the Classic Pattern era from just the old memories.

The Classic Pattern era saw the introduction and refinement of "Precision Aerobatics" as well as the evolution of Radio Control Systems. At the same time the "modeler" was designing and building his aircraft that he would use to master the discipline. Those designs were an extension of the personality of the competitor. For many they were a trademark of a champion. Planes like the Chidgey Tiger Tail or the Don Lowe Phoenix series that made Dave Brown famous. How about the Jim Martin Banshee or the Don Coleman Cutlass, the Kraft Kwik Fly, the Cliff Wierick Candy and of course the Bridi Kaos. You could go even farther back before the Ed Kasmerski Taurus. The point is even though there were a few "ready built" models in the later years of the Classic Pattern era, the thing that separates then from now is that the champion was not only a great pilot but a craftsman and sometimes an innovator. Patience was shown in the workshop not at the dock waiting for the boat from China to arrive.

Classic Pattern is not a contest between "Builders" and "Buyers". It is a trip down memory lane. Enjoy it.

Perhaps I have struck a nerve. I only meant to offer an opinion on the other side of the coin. My concern is regarding the elitist attitude that someone might exhibit when another wishes to join in with an ARF. I agree with you that a builder is usually far more disciplined in his regimen. I would be curious to learn what percentage of TOC and Masters contenders actually build the plane they compete with. But I digress.

I believe Team America has said it best with his closing statement, "Classic Pattern is not a contest between "Builders" and "Buyers". It is a trip down memory lane. Enjoy it."

Well Said!

Bob

I think one company from the 80's that did the glass fuse/ foam wing was Model Merchant. I got to see Don Downing dump all his stock at swap meets for $20. He had a Tiger Tail, Compensator and a Laser 200 86" based on the Wanye Ulrey design. They were pretty well picked over, so there were probably some other designs not represented. He aslo had some trainers and alot of 1/2a designs.

turbo

One of the many great things about the “Classic” forum is that it is pretty much an ARF free zone! With Lanier RC discontinuing their classic ARFs there are only about three ARFs left, one from Tower, one from Great Planes and one from Global. The good news is if you want to fly you get to build! What could be better than that? Lots of “Classic” plans available too!

A lot of people, old timers included, would beg to differ. It's a shame that something as prestigious as classic pattern flying will be restricted to thoses who can either afford the time to build or the money to buy a specialty aircraft. I don't care a lick about 3-D aerobatics. I really wantedt o get more involved with classic pattern.

However, it seems if you have an ARF, 'Your kind ain't welcome here...'

Bob