Community
Search
Notices
Classic RC Pattern Flying Discuss here all pre 1996 RC Pattern Flying in this forum.

Blue Angel - Build

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-20-2010 | 02:10 PM
  #1176  
doxilia's Avatar
My Feedback: (3)
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
From: Montreal, QC, CANADA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Yup,

UC is easier to apply and less prone to wrinkles but it is more sensitive to heat settings. It's hard to overheat MK unless you really want to melt it. Because of the single bonded layer type of film it is, it adheres better, is more tolerant to varying temperature, more prone to wrinkles but also has more shine. UC is great when learning I'd say, the fact that you can heat it and reposition it with no adverse effect is great. Once MK is stuck, it really is. Pulling it off is not much fun.

If there is such a thing as a "good filler" for covering to adhere to, Balsarite film is probably it. Using a typical light wood filler (spackling type stuff) is actually terrible because it doesn't allow the adhesive in MK (at least) to create bonds - kind of like polyester resin over epoxy, doesn't work. Hence the need for "glue coating" wood fillers under plastic film. However, some people use spackling filler in solution (e.g., polycrylic) to close balsa grain (and glass weave) prior to painting.

David.
Old 04-29-2010 | 08:24 PM
  #1177  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build


ORIGINAL: FLAPSDOWN

Mike,

Thanks for the PM reply with how to contact Dan for plans, cores, and the canopy. I've exchanged emails and will be getting an order as soon as his tornado damage is behind him. What a shame.

I also wanted to thank you for the inspirational build. I never really thought about building a Blue Angel until I read your thread. I do however remember the Model Airplane News with Tsugutaka Yoshioka on the cover. I was 12 flying novice pattern competition in the midwest. I would lay in bed at night after spending the evening in the basement building. I remember that cover very well thinking what a beautiful airplane. Your build is just as beautiful.

I cringed though as I read the thread thinking ''Oh no, not monokote''. It turned out beautifully though. I always used K&B epoxy and a Binks airbrush. I even put Coverite and paint on an Ugly Stik. What's the secret? I assume a cover over the monokote iron to prevent scratches. Did you use Balsarite to prep. I always end up with seeing the wood grain when I cover. And that shine. Why doesn't the monokote I buy shine like yours? Any tips would be great. Also, are the Blue Angel decals still available?

Thanks a lot. I'm looking forward to your next build. Do you something in mind.

Best Regards.

Bill
Thanks for the kind comments.

From my experience MonoKote gives the best looking film finish that I prefer over the others. Nothing really special is required to use it. I find that I get the best results by making tight glue joints and then the normal sanding that you would do to prepare for glassing balsa. Sloppy glue joints or joints that don’t fit well tend to show through the MonoKote but I’ve never had problems with grain showing. I prefer the way that you can stretch Monokote around compound curves like wing tips and the way it bonds so tightly to its self. The seams are almost invisible and I plan the covering so they are in places that are hard to see.

Some people complain about wrinkles but after you expose it to the sun a few times and then reheat out the winkles it is a non issue. I don’t use a cover on the iron. If your iron is scratching clean it or buy a new quality one. Monokote can be polished with wax like you do paint and it adds to the gloss.

There are a number of advantages of using MonoKote on the wing and stab. First it is lighter than glass and paint, if you get a ding you can easily fix it by ejecting water into the balsa under the dig and it will pop out with heat, did I say it was lighter!


Old 05-12-2010 | 09:28 AM
  #1178  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

RCU member "Sound-barrier" from the Netherlands, mailed me a set of Blue Angel plans that came with a MK Blue Angel kit that his dad built many years ago. During my discussions with "Sound-barrier" about the different variants of the Blue Angel he encouraged me to add more information about them to my thread. For the next few days I’m going to post what I’ve learned so far and share various pics that have been provided to me by RCU members following my build. I do not consider myself an expert on the history of the Blue Angel so feel free to add any information you might have.

I’m going to compare the earlier MK design plans that "Sound-barrier" sent me to the later MK design plans that Ron Ellis "RCU grotto2" sent me for my build. The "Sound-barrier" plans more closely match the variant that Yoshioka flew in the World Championships.

I’m going to start with the article that was published in the October 1974 American Aircraft Modeler that was sent to me by "impactiq" on RCU. This article shows the very first Blue Angel variant that was designed and flown by Kato. The design work started in 1963 with the first prototype being flown in 1966. This first variant has the swept wing and stabs, a long nose moment and a pretty short tail moment. Note the wing fences! See image below.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Wt59193.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	132.6 KB
ID:	1434844  
Old 05-12-2010 | 09:56 AM
  #1179  
Member
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: , BELGIUM
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Hi 8178,

is this the file you are talking about?

Quality of my copy is not perfect, so if yours is better, I will just edit and remove,

Thanks
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Hf98293.pdf (969.5 KB, 161 views)
Old 05-12-2010 | 09:58 AM
  #1180  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Kato continued to develop the design with a second variant that had the wing sweep reduced, larger wing area, thicker airfoil and shorter nose moment. The thick airfoil did not work well because it slowed the speed of the aircraft too much so a new wing was designed with a thinner airfoil. The new wing also reduced the overall aircraft weight. Note that it still has wing fences. See image below.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Fd92209.jpg
Views:	161
Size:	156.5 KB
ID:	1434857  
Old 05-12-2010 | 10:00 AM
  #1181  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

ORIGINAL: CaptainBlueSky

Hi 8178,

is this the file you are talking about?

Quality of my copy is not perfect, so if yours is better, I will just edit and remove,

Thanks
Thanks. Those articles are great info.
Old 05-12-2010 | 10:15 AM
  #1182  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

The third variant had a shorter nose moment, no wing fences, a deeper fuselage profile for retracts and a redesigned tail. See first image below. I believe that this variant was the first variant that Kato added to his MK kit line. This was done after he flew it in the 1971 Doylestown Internats.

The April 1974 Model Airplane News did a Field and Bench article by Art Schroeder that reviewed the MK Blue Angel kit. See the second and third images below. Note the slab balsa vertical stabilizer and rudder that stops at the top of the fuselage.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Da83170.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	156.7 KB
ID:	1434868   Click image for larger version

Name:	Je98853.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	144.8 KB
ID:	1434869   Click image for larger version

Name:	Gl20721.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	123.8 KB
ID:	1434870  
Old 05-12-2010 | 10:46 AM
  #1183  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Enter Mr. Yoshioka! Yoshioka buys a Blue Angel kit but believes it would perform better with an improved ruder design that goes all the way to the bottom of the fuselage and making the tail of the fuselage narrower to match up with the rudder. See post 1133 above for the American Aircraft Modeler (page 31) for more detail on the changes.

This variant is called the Blue Angel Modified and with it Yoshioka wins the 1973 world championship. Ironically, Yoshioka beats Kato in the competition with his own but modified design.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Jh14675.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	133.7 KB
ID:	1434878  
Old 05-12-2010 | 10:50 AM
  #1184  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Images of Yoshioka during and after the Worlds.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	tr51717.jpg
Views:	159
Size:	27.1 KB
ID:	1434879   Click image for larger version

Name:	rm37511.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	544.9 KB
ID:	1434880   Click image for larger version

Name:	lr39219.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	183.4 KB
ID:	1434881   Click image for larger version

Name:	vo38088.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	103.2 KB
ID:	1434882   Click image for larger version

Name:	sd45348.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	1.02 MB
ID:	1434883   Click image for larger version

Name:	fv26170.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	264.8 KB
ID:	1434884   Click image for larger version

Name:	jl95054.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	164.3 KB
ID:	1434885  
Old 05-12-2010 | 10:52 AM
  #1185  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

At this point in the early 70s the current MK Blue Angel kit looked like the variant on the left but MK changed the new kits to include Yoshioka’s modifications on the right.

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	ec89024.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	16.7 KB
ID:	1434886   Click image for larger version

Name:	lh18469.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	11.4 KB
ID:	1434887  
Old 05-12-2010 | 11:24 AM
  #1186  
Taurus Flyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Gents,

See post 1132, 12 May 2010 :
ORIGINAL: 8178

RCU member ''Sound-barrier'' from the Netherlands, mailed me a set of Blue Angel plans that came with a MK Blue Angel kit that his dad built many years ago. During my discussions with ''Sound-barrier'' about the different variants of the Blue Angel he encouraged me to add more information about them to my thread. For the next few days I’m going to post what I’ve learned so far and share various pics that have been provided to me by RCU members following my build. I do not consider myself an expert on the history of the Blue Angel so feel free to add any information you might have.
Message shortened by Taurus Flyer
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9728432


Isn't it interesting,


See my own post of a few days before! 5 May 2010
in "Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth".
The second Mr Ka

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9722052

ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents,

Process of idea to first prototyping and realization of the useable result is going on, also for the “controller”(picture2) of post 722, a process of years. Normally only the result is interesting for you when you can buy it.

How about this process of the realization of a champion model pattern plane. Thinking about the Simla-Taurus I am also interested in a comparable plane, there is one.

Some keywords:

Designer and builder did look to the real airplanes to have a visualization of his new plane.
Both were Mr. Ka
The development period was a project over several years and prototypes.
The designer and builder never became a world champion with the plane himself.
After the first kitting of the plane after several prototypes it became world famous

What can we learn when we look to the stories of these two airplanes?
There already is done a lot of organized work before the realization of the plan, kit or ARF before you can buy.
Believe me these planes did not drop of the air.

More to come

Cees
Classic Pattern Flying from the Netherlands!


Cees


Edit: header of the post changed
Old 05-12-2010 | 11:42 AM
  #1187  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

The most notable difference you see first between the "Sound-barrier" (early) plans and the “grotto2” (late) plans is the name on them. The early plans are titled WORLD CHAMPION BLUEANGEL and the late just BLUE ANGEL. Odd that there is no space between the name BLUEANGEL.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	mk26776.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	143.0 KB
ID:	1434894   Click image for larger version

Name:	nl29962.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	131.3 KB
ID:	1434895  
Old 05-12-2010 | 11:58 AM
  #1188  
Taurus Flyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

8178,

BLUE ANGEL characters are the same.
WORLD CHAMPION probably later added on the plans after Yoshioka became world champion with that plane.
The characters of WORLD CHAMPION are not so nice, see the -O- and -C- so I think a different draftsman

Later plans they did use the same characters (sjabloon/template) for BLUE ANGEL

Cees
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Vt56474.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	98.5 KB
ID:	1434905  
Old 05-12-2010 | 12:26 PM
  #1189  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build


ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

8178,

BLUE ANGEL characters are the same.
WORLD CHAMPION probably later added on the plans after Yoshioka became world champion with that plane.
The characters of WORLD CHAMPION are not so nice, see the -O- and -C- so I think a different draftsman

Later plans they did use the same characters (sjabloon/template) for BLUE ANGEL

Cees

Could be but they are not located in the same area on the plan sheets.

Old 05-12-2010 | 12:33 PM
  #1190  
Taurus Flyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

8178


Each template of a character you use separate. Even the B, O, A, R, D etc are difficult to make because you have to use two positions to construct one character.
You see the characters of the two BLUE ANGEL names are al the same for example look to the -G-.

Of WORLD CHAMPION there are a lot of shortcomings visible, parallelism, distances, so other draftsman or he did it on monday.

Very interesting to look for a second check!!!!!
Do the characters have the same dimensions?

Cees
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:17 PM
  #1191  
speed-panzer's Avatar
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 361
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Rennerod, GERMANY
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

What nice articles to read! I printed them out and am still in the process of enjoying to read them tonight.
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:26 PM
  #1192  
stuntflyr's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,891
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
From: Tucson, Arizona
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

That first Blue Angel is a very nice semi-scale Grumman F11 Tiger. I kind of like all of them, they have a nice style.
Chris...
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:33 PM
  #1193  
speed-panzer's Avatar
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 361
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From: Rennerod, GERMANY
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

.... my Blue Angel kit then seems to be the early one, too - it always made me wonder that the carton box had 2 different airplanes pictured on its top lid, the Blue Angel and the Fuji.
The Fuji kit is packed into the same carton, but missing the blue "World Champion" Sticker....
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf99880.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	61.3 KB
ID:	1435001   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fa85147.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	61.9 KB
ID:	1435002   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xd80718.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	85.0 KB
ID:	1435003  
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:34 PM
  #1194  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build


ORIGINAL: stuntflyr

That first Blue Angel is a very nice semi-scale Grumman F11 Tiger. I kind of like all of them, they have a nice style.
Chris...

It does look very much like a Grumman F11 Tiger!
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:41 PM
  #1195  
Taurus Flyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Gents,

Look WORLD CHAMPION designed by:

Mr. Kato and Mr.Yoshioka

We see the names also on the other drawings, but this is the oldest one I think, and maybe kitted "world champions design".

Edit, second picture: This proves I think Mr Kato and Mr Yoshioka did cooperate after Mr Yoshioka became champion.




Cees


Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ax72934.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	46.3 KB
ID:	1435007   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kh17725.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	49.0 KB
ID:	1435008  
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:47 PM
  #1196  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build


ORIGINAL: speed-panzer

.... my Blue Angel kit then seems to be the early one, too - it always made me wonder that the carton box had 2 different airplanes pictured on its top lid, the Blue Angel and the Fuji.
The Fuji kit is packed into the same carton, but missing the blue ''World Champion'' Sticker....
Wow! A real Blue Angel kit, very nice!

I’ve seen that box type before and it is odd that they had the first kit variant and the Blue Angel Modified on the same box top. And it is odd that Blue Angel Modified is not in Blue Angel colors.
Old 05-12-2010 | 03:49 PM
  #1197  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build


ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents,

Look WORLD CHAMPION designed by:

Mr. Kato and Mr.Yoshioka

We see the names also on the other drawings, but this is the oldest one, and maybe ''world champions design''.



Cees


Yes, the names are on both plans.


Old 05-12-2010 | 04:21 PM
  #1198  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

On the left is the early Blue Angel tail assembly and on the right the late. The early Blue Angel uses slabs of balsa for a vertical stab and uses only small blocks of balsa beside the stab base to fair into the fuselage. This makes more of abrupt change between the fuselage and the stab compared the late that uses a large hollow balsa block that makes a smooth molded like transition from the fuselage to the hollow built-up stab base. The built-up vertical stab on the late is much thicker. From the top view the early fuselage sides flow directly into the leading edge of the rudder making the fuselage narrow. On the late the fuselage is wider than the front of the rudder by about 1/8” on both sides. So the back of the fuselage is a least ¼" wider. The base of the early vertical stab is about 3/8" and the base of the late is about 1”. The rudder on the early is taller and the stab cap shorter. The lower part of the fuselage on the very back is not a carved block like the late.

The drawing error on the late plans where they have the rudder pushrod connected to the rudder in the wrong place causing interference with the elevator is not present on the early plan.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Vt56261.jpg
Views:	137
Size:	147.0 KB
ID:	1435046   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pk30575.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	134.9 KB
ID:	1435047  
Old 05-12-2010 | 04:32 PM
  #1199  
8178's Avatar
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (17)
 
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,351
Received 15 Likes on 7 Posts
From: Atlanta, GA
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

Hay, with all this thread activity we made the RCU Heartbeat list!
Old 05-12-2010 | 04:43 PM
  #1200  
Taurus Flyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,408
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
From: Almelo, NETHERLANDS
Default RE: Blue Angel - Build

8178,


For me it is logical the BA kits we see "all over the world" after Mr. Yoshioka became champion, or not?
So the plan with WORLDCHAMPION is the oldest one and maybe of the kit Mr. Yoshioka did use in the first place to build his own plane for the world championships?
This plan, edited with the modifications and "WORLDCHAMPION" we see with the names of both Mr. Kato and Mr. Yoshioka.
Can that be true?
Or easy question? Is there any date on the plans?

Cees


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.