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KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Old 07-16-2007, 02:25 PM
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alcarafa
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Default KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Hi everyone:

A friend just gave me a pattern plane he said was called " KIWI 40" looks nice and seems to have a clean slim airfoil, not a thick one like the Kaos, for sure it must fly real fast. I will post some pictures soon.

He said he stored the plane for at least 15 yrs, so I will restore it and if any of you have suggestions or modifications I can do. please let me know.

Any of you have had any experience with this plane?

Thanks.

Rafa
Old 07-16-2007, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Rafa,

Kiwi was kitted by Sig.. not sure on the dates.. but a nice 40 sized plane.

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft
Old 07-16-2007, 07:47 PM
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Jim Duda
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Dan is correct...the Kiwi was kitted by Sig and designed by my Formula 1 pylon racing partner, Hank Pohlmann. Here are some shots of the prototype I built. The one on snow skis has a built up wing and the one still hanging in my garage has a foam wing I made using the balsa rib contours. It has Carl Goldberg retracts operated from a Kraft 180 deg. retract servo...I converted them to taildraggers (easier retract installation) but the production model was trike gear, I believe.

Glenn (Sigafoose) wanted to test the structural integrity of it before production so I put a Webra .61 Blackhead (not the speed version) in it...you can see it in the pic. With the blackhead it would keep up with the best of 'em (especially with the retracts up) yet still was very docile on landings.

Hank loved the .61 but was pretty much committed to flying all of his with a .40 as that was how it was marketed. Don't be afraid to strap on a larger engine as it will certainly take it. Can't remember if the kit calls for glassing the center wing section but it's probably a good idea.

ps. It loves snap roll maneuvers at the top and bottom of loops...try a 1-1/2 snap at the top of a loop, complete the outside loop half and then do another 1-1/2 at the bottom and exit upright. I think that was our favorite maneuver back then...

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Old 07-17-2007, 12:08 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Thanks Dan & Jim :

Never thought plane was that old ! Looks a lot like a Kaos at first sight.

It is correct Jim plane is a trike, I did some glassing to the center wing section, you know just in case .

I have a OS 55 AX I want to use for this bird, wasnt sure about that cause I thought it was too much engine, now that you said you used a Webra .61 Blackhead I dont worry any more.

Some questions Jim:

What was the wheels size for trike ? You think I can grow a bit larger the rudder, could this affect performance ? what size was Propeller on webra? it seems to me landing gear is too short for long propellers if I use the OS.

TXS.
Rafa
Old 07-17-2007, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Rafa -
I increased the rudder about 50% on mine because of the heavier motor and I wanted to make sure it snapped quickly and could knife edge. I used either a 11 x 7 or 11 X 7.5 depending on the nitro I had. You could adjust the length of the retract gear legs so I just made mine long enough for prop clearance. I think I used 2 " thin wheels.

I remember now - the foam wing as a tail dragger and the stock wing (see pic with skis) used the supplied main gear. I could "plug in" the nose gear if I wanted a non-retractible trike. When the retract gear was used, I used a short piece of 5/32 wire in the nose gear bearings.
Old 07-18-2007, 05:32 PM
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alcarafa
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Txs Jim you have been very helpful , I just finished sanding the plane real smooth and covered it with monokote, now I'm going to install a GP motor mount to fit the OS, mount it had was to small for that engine.

Cannopy is missing so I'm going to put a Kaos one, I had for another project that is still pending.

For sure I will increase rudder 50% minimum so knife's will be easier to hold.

Good luck on your landings.
Rafa
Old 08-31-2007, 12:55 AM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Well restoration is finished did maiden flight, upssssss very nose heavy have to put weight on tail, one thing I didnt liked is that plane tends to go left side during loops, and rolls to left side become a bow instead of roll, took a close look to left aileron and its not straight, have to adjust it, a friend told me to put a small piece of balsa where wing wears in fuselage on the opposed part of tendency to correct this , im not sure I want to do this and even if it will help at all, my question is ; is this the cause for this awfull tendency ? it also fights to keep knife edge, plane tends to sink, will this change as soon I fix the balance?

I think it would be a good idea on starting a thread called "Pattern plane set up" anybody interested on starting it?

Txs for your advice is a nice plane and would like it flying well.
Rafa
Old 08-31-2007, 01:16 AM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

First thing I would do is check the lateral balance.
Old 08-31-2007, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

A pattern plane setup thread sounds good to me. Shall we start one?
Old 08-31-2007, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Propbuster I already did it txs , any more advice on trimming the kiwi?

All right locolobot I'll start it asking experienced pilots to contribute.
Old 10-26-2007, 08:43 PM
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kiwi4
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

I love the Kiwi Ive owned three of them,In order to fix the nose heavy with the rossi 45 I stretched the fuse 3in,this aids in knife edge and keeping it straight in loops and rolls.I am looking for another one to build mine is 12 years and wore out if anyone knows of one please email @ cboosinger@cinci.rr.com thanks. Dan
Old 10-27-2007, 06:00 AM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE


ORIGINAL: Deadstik

Rafa,

Kiwi was kitted by Sig.. not sure on the dates.. but a nice 40 sized plane.

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft

-----------


But not really a pattern plane.

There was a trend in the Seventies by all kit manufacturers to classify any low winged sport model as a pattern plane. This confused the dickens out of the non serious sport aerobatics folks. It was simply a marketing ploy and it worked very well - for the sellers.

For modelers, it became very confusing. After all, the box said it was a pattern model. How do you explain to someone that their Sterling Lancer, Andrews Trainermaster, etc., were not really competition grade pattern models without disappointing them? It's about the same as today's ARFs coming with fuel tanks whose necks protrude through the firewall. Anyone around in the late Sixties forward knows that this is bad engineering and leads to lots of engines being killed early in their lifespan due to fuel foaming. But try to explain this to the new modeler that trusted his ARF's manufacturer to design the model properly. Most of the time when I see a bad engine post, I know that this is the root of the problem. But who are the newbies going to believe? An old gray bearded guy, or the manufacturer?

Don't believe everything you read. These folks will say or imply anything to sell their products. That's just how the world works.


Ed Cregger
Old 10-27-2007, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

I've read similar comments on the 3D forum. These days certain planes are advertised as 3D capable which, according to the experts, aren't.

Tom
Old 10-29-2007, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE


ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger


ORIGINAL: Deadstik

Rafa,

Kiwi was kitted by Sig.. not sure on the dates.. but a nice 40 sized plane.

Dan
Carolina Custom Aircraft

-----------


But not really a pattern plane.

There was a trend in the Seventies by all kit manufacturers to classify any low winged sport model as a pattern plane. This confused the dickens out of the non serious sport aerobatics folks. It was simply a marketing ploy and it worked very well - for the sellers.

For modelers, it became very confusing. After all, the box said it was a pattern model. How do you explain to someone that their Sterling Lancer, Andrews Trainermaster, etc., were not really competition grade pattern models without disappointing them? It's about the same as today's ARFs coming with fuel tanks whose necks protrude through the firewall. Anyone around in the late Sixties forward knows that this is bad engineering and leads to lots of engines being killed early in their lifespan due to fuel foaming. But try to explain this to the new modeler that trusted his ARF's manufacturer to design the model properly. Most of the time when I see a bad engine post, I know that this is the root of the problem. But who are the newbies going to believe? An old gray bearded guy, or the manufacturer?

Don't believe everything you read. These folks will say or imply anything to sell their products. That's just how the world works.


Ed Cregger
************************************************** ***************************
Well Ed talkiing about bad engineering, I'm surprised as most of my planes have the fuel tank near firewall, have almost never had an engine kill due to this ( was it , fuel foaming?).

In order to eventually avoid that circumstance again, where is the best place to put the fuel tank? are there any standard distance ?

Txs for you comments & advice.

BTW the KIWI died last sunday and gave it a VIKING burial in the midle of the runway, you are right ED this is no pattern plane, never came out of a nose dive and crashed in a spectacular way.

Good flights 2 you... but better landings
Old 10-29-2007, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Here's what I think Ed is suggesting. The fuel tank is supposed to be isolated from the engine's vibration. You pack it in (non-compressed) foam, and make sure that no part of the tank (such as the neck) makes contact with anything solid (such as the firewall.) If they do make contact, the tank will vibrate right along with the engine.

In reference to tank/engine distance, I would say this: As close together as you can get them without the tank touching anything solid.

Tom
Old 10-30-2007, 12:45 AM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

I've got an original Kiwi kit still in the box. I was not looking to get rid of it but if someone really wants it I might be persuaded to part with it.

Tom
Old 11-01-2007, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE


ORIGINAL: Tip22v

I've got an original Kiwi kit still in the box. I was not looking to get rid of it but if someone really wants it I might be persuaded to part with it.

Tom
Hey Tom would you sell it? [X(]

if yes how much ? give me a good price heeeee

Is a nice plane problem with the one I had was too old and not build very well.

Regards.
Rafa
Old 11-01-2007, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE


ORIGINAL: Trisquire

Here's what I think Ed is suggesting. The fuel tank is supposed to be isolated from the engine's vibration. You pack it in (non-compressed) foam, and make sure that no part of the tank (such as the neck) makes contact with anything solid (such as the firewall.) If they do make contact, the tank will vibrate right along with the engine.

In reference to tank/engine distance, I would say this: As close together as you can get them without the tank touching anything solid.

Tom


----------


Trisquire, you have nailed it dead on. That is what I meant. Thanks.


Ed Cregger
Old 11-01-2007, 11:55 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Sorry Rafa, Dan got to me first.
Old 11-09-2007, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

Hello kiwi4,

Is that Snoopy in the Cockpit...?

Mine in the Gallery is the Super Kaos .60...w/Snoopy.

DRonland


Old 01-04-2008, 11:16 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

I built one in 1977 (in picture) when I was 14 years old. Man I had about 200 hours tied up in it!! I really never got it to fly right for some reason.Had problems with the inverted engine running and if I can remember it would pitch hard to the right and stall when taking off. I had guys at the club look at it but they couldnt figure out the problem. The CG was per specs too. I would like to build it again and try to get it to fly this time at 45 years old!!!

Scott R.
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: KIWI PATTERN PLANE

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger


It's about the same as today's ARFs coming with fuel tanks whose necks protrude through the firewall. Anyone around in the late Sixties forward knows that this is bad engineering and leads to lots of engines being killed early in their lifespan due to fuel foaming.


Ed Cregger
Thanks for that information. That may explain some things in a Global Freestyle which has exactly that...neck in the firewall.
Old 01-17-2020, 09:43 PM
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Default

I have the Kiwi in a kit and look forward to building an electric conversion.
Old 01-18-2020, 02:28 PM
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Default Electric

Originally Posted by Creative RC View Post
I have the Kiwi in a kit and look forward to building an electric conversion.
Im looking to build an electric version. If you get to it, let me know what setup your using. Kiwi4
Old 01-18-2020, 03:06 PM
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Default Kiwi electric conversion

Originally Posted by kiwi4 View Post
I’m looking to build an electric version. If you get to it, let me know what setup your using. Kiwi4
Hi, it may be a while before I get to it, but I did reach out to another flyer who converted to electric. Here are his comments with photos. His has the orange wing. The last three photos shows a white/yellow/blue Kiwi with a modified and more streamlined end. I will attempt to streamline the front likewise and add an air scoop opening under the spinner. Hope this is helpful for your build.

SIG Kiwi Electric Conversion (Orange main wing)
The motor s a Rimfire 46 running on 6 cells.
75A ESC
APC 11-5.5 prop.
Top speed is in the 100-110 range, it just blows by the nitro guys with ease!
Excellent flying plane, one of the best!
I hope this helps you?.
I used HS-125 flat wing servos.
Rear exit for cooling air.
Hatch is balsa with a thin ply backing, rear tab and balsa stick on the sides to keep it centered.
Make a few holes for cooling and motor wires.
Moved the canopy back to make room for the battery hatch.
Install a plywood plate for a battery tray.
I use 1.5" PVC pipe for a motor mount standoff. Other spacer methods can be used.

The cowl is just like the plans.
Closed on 3 sides and open on the bottom.
Then i made a scoop for the bottom to direct air into the motor area, the black part.

Here are some photos that were sent to me.












Last edited by Creative RC; 01-18-2020 at 03:11 PM.

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