I interested in getting acurate fuselage bulkheads so I can build a very accurate fuselage. If I can I will build a mold of it so we can have glass fuselages available.

Thanks David.

Don,

if I get a copy of Tarquin's tracings, I can make you a perfectly symmetrical set of fuse formers. The tolerance of scanned MK plans in such that there is about plus/minus 1/16" between upper and lower end of a parts dimension. The formers I would draw would be at the 50% mark which would result in a fuse size of "average" dimensions.

By the way, I'm not sure where you are with respect to the same idea on the Aurora and whether you might build a fuse as a plug. If you are interested in doing that, I can also send you perfectly symmetric CAD drawings of the Aurora formers.

In both cases (Beetle and Aurora), I could also send you a planform drawing of the wing along with the root and tip airfoils so you can cut cores for the wing and stab. Hopefully Tarquin made templates of the ribs too.

David.

Well that would help us get to a finished product a lot sooner if had the help in my efforts.
Thanks David

Hey Dox, Freq

I've already started working on digitizing the tracings for the beetle.I've been converting them to tif files to get them into my cad app. I planned on making a cad templates for laser cutting later. Will post them when finished. Any preference for finished file type?

Bryan

Bryan,

excellent news. In that case, I'll leave the torch in your good hands re the Beetle

I'll work on sending Don Aurora related stuff - for a fuse build and foam core cut. You do the Beetle.

Final file format: DWG & PDF - if possible.

David.

Hey Beetle fans,

After reviewing the tracings it appears that the beetle has an additional small stab plan not previously mentioned. I checked the plan and this portion does not appear on it. Posted here for all to enjoy.

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Hello Guys

I didnt know there was so much interest in the cut part templates. I think I have sent download links to everyone who has asked for them. If not then please PM me again - it just takes me while to getting around to replying since it is mid summer here and good to be outside.

I was a little rough in making the tracings because I didnt expect for anyone to want to use them apart from me if I ever needed to make any repairs. I hope they are still of use. Please note that a couple of file numbers appear missing from the series - these were deleted for various reasons - but rest assured all of the tracings have been scanned. Also a couple are double ups. I did this to capture the different pen colours I used i.e. one will have a really faint couple of ribs and the other will have those ribs but with two really dark outlines.

Cheers
Tarquin

p.s. the only rule is that no one finishes a beetle before I do!

HeyDavid,

Sodo youhave tracings for theAurora diecut parts?

Bryan

Hello Bryan

I think RaineDave (?) has done the whole Aurora in CAD.

Cheers
Tarquin

Bryan, That drawing is the same as my Wild Beat stab drawing. Both of the kits (Beetle, Wild Beat) have adjustable stab assemblies and the small stab plan is the assembly directions. I don't know that i would be able to replicate the assembly if i built a Beetle, probably just go with a fixed stab.

Rainedave did do the Aurora in CAD and was kind enough to send me those CAD files. I also bought another CAD Guys Cut file of the Aurora just to have for any future builds.

Tarquin, by the way how is the build going.

Tarquin's build thread has been over taken.

When I scratch built the Wild Beat I saw that detail also and knew that I was not going to be able to get those MK parts. Central Hobbies has what I bought, the Gator Stab adjustable kit. It worked out just fine and I have used it before on other planes that I have. It is almost really just the oposite, it pivots at the rear on a tube rather than the front and then adjusts at the front, up & down.

Don,

what are the dimensions on that Gator stab tube set?

Phenolic OD, Inner tube ID and OD, length of each, material (carbon?)

TIA, David.

The tube is 12" long it looks about 7/16" dia. alum or you can buy carbon fiber tubes PBG has them.
I know it's not easy to find these any more . I believe these are not made, Gator's house and shop was hit by a tornado some years ago and I am not sure if they are stll doing business.

If they are not in business any more I may just have to start making them in my cnc shop. Who know's I may even make the dies and have my friend that is in the injection molding business pop out a thousand of the mounting bracket made or of poly or plastic or what ever would be the strongest material for the part.

Then we would have plenty.

Yes,

I have been looking into tubes lately and it is not only tricky to source them for the larger IMAC or F3A models but if you want tubes that are for a smaller project, the pickings become very slim. 7/16" seems to be the lower end of tube sizes both Gator and PBG.

I don't know how the quality of the TNT tubes and sockets compare to PBG but it may well be that they are the best source in town - assuming that they do have what they advertise on their site.

Thanks for the info.

David.

I know www.buddengineering.com has them. 12" x7/16" Carbon fiber PBG - tube and socket $14.95

I gotAurora 60 templates from anotherRCU memberbut he requested that I not share them.Hence the question. I would ask RaineDave but he has not logged on since Feb 2010. I believe he had some type of accident, but have not got any details. Hope he is well.

Thanks for the detailed measurements of the root and tip ribs. Your measurements verified what I was seeing in the files you sent.Would it not be better if at least the LE were the same size from root to tip?I can change this whenmaking the rib templates. Seem's like it would make the wing a little easier to build, e.g. able to keep the shape better or would it dramtically change the airfoil of the wing? Due to the way the TEis I don't see how changing it would benefit unless the ribs went the whole cord length, which could be done as well. At first I thought the two part ribs were for flaps but it appears it's just an extra step. All input welcome on this, by the way.

Bryan

Bryan,

it looks like you got some replies on the A60 before I got a chance. Indeed, DW, drafted up the A60 in CAD very nicely but felt his plan was not complete. I may agree, but the bulk of the engineering effort was done and very well - as usual. In any event, I have started to work on his drafts to bring the plan into a more complete state such that the design can be laser cut (or scratch built) and the CAD plans used for construction. While I don't intend to touch the design at all (Undoubtedly Naruke knew a fair bit more than I do as far as pattern design goes... [:-]), I was considering, after having discussed with Jeff (Bootalini) his electric plug-in wing A60, the idea of reducing the weight of the fuse. I am thinking that the fuse sides as well as the doubler can be either reduced in stock size or, in some other way lightened. Seeing and handling Jeff's A60 first hand gave me the distinct impression that the wings were super light while the fuse was on the heavier side.

I am considering re-working the fuse sides to 3/8" (down from 1/2"), possibly in 2 layers (1/4" core plus 1/8" skin) and the doubler to 1/32" (down from 1/16") or simply lightening the 1/16" doubler where appropriate. In order to keep the former design untouched (much less work), I may just go the latter route on the doubler. The fuse would build to 1/8" less width on either side but perhaps this isn't altering the design substantially. An alternative would be to widen the formers correspondingly.

In any event, these changes basically amount to wood stock specification on a laser cut layout sheet without really affecting much else.

As far as the Beetle goes (and Tarquin, I hope you don't mind this little detour from your build here - we're working toward survival of these beautiful models), I would be very careful with altering things like airfoil on such a design. I don't really consider world class models such as the Aurora or Beetle "bash platforms" for experimental design. Take a Kaos or even a Curare if you will for design altering fun since those models are what I would consider "brutes". A refined design such as the Beetle on the other hand, I'd be leery to "design-in" such flight altering behavior such as LE airfoil changes. The shape and span-wise thickness of the LE on a wing is a critical aspect of its design and has a significant effect on the flight performance of the model.

As far as ease of building, these wings don't build easily as far as I'm concerned. To my mind, many of these MK Japanese designs could benefit from dual 1/4" center holes along the rib chord centerline in order to permit a jig to be used to frame up the panels. Using tabs on tapered and swept wings quickly gets tedious and having a jig to align the ribs and spars makes for a straight wing which can be sheeted while still in the jig. Inexpensive jigs are available from Tower for $24 or one can be built if so inclined.

Last but not least, as far as a repro kit from Don goes, I envision the kit being a glass/foam model so that what Don may need for a fast wing build consists of the root and tip airfoils along with the core planform. Building a framed up wing isn't going to help to "make a mold" of it. The critical thing to know is whether the tip rib is indeed centered along its chord axis on the root rib for a longitudinally symmetrical wing about a constant chord axis. I haven't studied the plans in detail enough to know if that's the case but I believe it is. With those four pieces if information, Don should be able to set up wing templates for Beetle cores.

Finally, an optional and firth piece of information, is the idea of making these models as plug-in wing designs in the glass/foam kits - much like how Jeff built his scratched Aurora (even if it was wood). As far as the fuse molding goes, this seems to make more sense as only a fuse and a bottom pan would need to be molded and produced. It also makes for a much easier fuse to work with since most of the space taken up by the wing in the fuse is now available. The approach that strikes me as the most graceful in terms of the glass/foam version would be to design the model around plug-in wing panels which have root chords that are at 90 degrees to a reference spar perpendicular to the ribs (the spar doesn't actually exist in the framed up wing). This allows the plug-in system to be simpler and also makes for easier wing construction although foam cores don't pose a complication even with angled root ribs. The wing fairings on the fuse would then be built onto the wood fuse with "wing stub" extensions setting the wing panel mating to the fuse to also be at 90 degrees to the fuse centerline. This is a way to mold these compound curves into the glass fuse and keep a simple wing tube mount as well as a simpler two piece glass fuse (no wing belly pan required). In summary, this would require altering the wood fuse plug construction as well as how the wing cores are ultimately cut.

Bryan, Don, Tarquin, Paul, others - thoughts?

David.

P.S. Tarquin, if this is taking your Beetle build too off topic, just let us know and we'll take this discussion somewhere else.

As a related point of interest - the Aurora 30 (which never really existed. The A25 is somewhat different to some disadvantage) is being designed around the concept above using plug-in wing panels and a single piece of belly pan glass. At this point of course, the A30 is a fully framed up balsa/ply design but nothing precludes it from being cast into glass/foam at some point in the future.

David.

David,
I have a lot more thoughts on this, but now I regret my first post #106 that I assume took Tarquin’s build way off Topic.

Tarquin I’m very sorry for that.

I had started another thread on just this, “Want to Build a Beetle�

Hey pitstop000 and All

No worries. I think discussions about the differences/similarities of the Aurora and Beetle are interesting. The discussion is probably going a little far from the build (or lack of) thread and is time for a new one.

In terms of potential changes to the wing section I would suggest trying to maintain the MK profiles. Although it might be difficult to build there may have been some hdden reason as to why. For example the leading edge spanwise shape change may have been to induce/prevent tip stall. As said earlier building tabs or jig alignment holes would be a useful addition.

For my build I am pretty sure I dont have room for the tuned pipe as it stands. I am going to have to chop into the bottom skin. It was suggested to me that I cut and oval hole and then bevel the edges. Then I can press in a piece of 1/64th ply and CA in place, then sand the edges flush, then glas back over.

Cheers
Tarquin

Hello

I have bitten the bullet and cut into the bottom of the wing skin. I used the dremel type tool with sanding drum to create an oval hole with bevelled edges. Then I used a piece of sandpaper over my fingers to smooth out the edges and create the shallow depression. I then added a matching oval of thin ply using medium CA. All I had to do then was sand the small edge to feather it back into the wing skin.

Next up I need to add a layer of glass to replace that removed by the cutout/ply.

Cheers
Tarquin

tarquin, that looks just fine. all part of squeezing everything into a work of art.

Tarquin, I hope all is well at your house. I guess the quake was well south of you. It appears to be a terrible situation over there.