Paint for Pattern Planes
#26
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (2)
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
Beautiful work crankpin. I have heard of people Monokoting glass fuses before, but never tried it personally. I have used both Balsarite and clear dope in the past prior to Monokote and it does help with the finish hardness and covering adhesion. I wish the ARF manufacturers would do something similar.
Where do you buy 3/4 oz glass cloth and finishing resin nowadays? I don't see it advertised.
I did find two good sources for dope. Brodak www.brodak.com and Aircraft Spruce and Specialty www.aircraftspruce.com
Unlike the hobby shop dopes, Randolph dope is so thick that you must thin it almost 50% to spray, so a quart ends up being about 1/2 gal.
I'm going to check with some local auto paint suppliers today, and see what I can find out.
Where do you buy 3/4 oz glass cloth and finishing resin nowadays? I don't see it advertised.
I did find two good sources for dope. Brodak www.brodak.com and Aircraft Spruce and Specialty www.aircraftspruce.com
Unlike the hobby shop dopes, Randolph dope is so thick that you must thin it almost 50% to spray, so a quart ends up being about 1/2 gal.
I'm going to check with some local auto paint suppliers today, and see what I can find out.
#27
My Feedback: (15)
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
Let us know what you find out RC. I am almost ready to start with paint, etc., on the other fiber glas fuselage's and foam wing birds.
You can get the light glass cloth at Tower, Sig, etc. I will start glassing the leading edge of the wings, and the wingtips on these ARF's, as to give the tips a hard shell, the iron melts the fiberglass wingtips that are on the planes.
These are my last two ARF's for pattern stuff, too much nice stuff to work on.
Vince
You can get the light glass cloth at Tower, Sig, etc. I will start glassing the leading edge of the wings, and the wingtips on these ARF's, as to give the tips a hard shell, the iron melts the fiberglass wingtips that are on the planes.
These are my last two ARF's for pattern stuff, too much nice stuff to work on.
Vince
#29
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
Aerospace Composite Products (ACP) is an excellent source for anything related to fiberglass or carbon fiber products.
http://www.acp-composites.com/
They have an extensive selection and online ordering.
Mark
http://www.acp-composites.com/
They have an extensive selection and online ordering.
Mark
#30
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
if you go 1/2 - 3/4 oz cloth, water based polyurethane and latex paint all of the water will evaporate. it still has to be sealed against nitro but some of my practice work is extremely light (and no seams[X(]!)
david
david
#31
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
here is a post from another site where the builder tracked weight gain: 9 oz's or so? compared to 4-5 ozs of monocote? doesn't look to bad.
david
I just finished covering my Top Flight GE P-51 (1/7th Scale). I wanted to know what type of weight gain I would get so I bought a gram scale before I started building. Below are my results after finishing.
I'd like to know how much total weight gain I would have gotten with other covering methods, especially monokote. If anyone can tell me I'd appreciate it.
P-51 Build Weights in Grams (1lb = 453 grams)
Note: Covered with .75oz FG cloth and Polycrylic Water Based Acrylic. Painted with Behr Metallic Silver Acrylic and Nelson Hobbies Water Based Polyurethane.
FUSELAGE:
Sanded Fuse Ready to Cover: 1069
Glassed with .75oz FG and Polycrylic WB: 1125
Bondo 907 and sanded: 1134
1 Coat Primer (unsanded) : 1272
Primer Sanded: 1180
Cockpit added: 1257
2 coats Behr Silver Acrylic: 1282
Paint (all colors) complete 5-6 coats WBPU: 1300
With clear coat (3 coats): 1319
Total gain from glassing and painting (fuselage): Approx. 170 grams
WING:
Sanded Wing Ready to Cover: 1035
Glassed and primer (sanded): 1083
1 coat Behr Silver Acrylic: 1090
All paint added (5-6 coats Nelson WBPU): 1128
Clear coats added (3-4 coats): 1152
Total gain from glassing and painting (wing): Approx. 117 grams
TOTAL GAIN FROM COVERING (ENTIRE AIRCRAFT): 287 Grams / .63 lbs
david
I just finished covering my Top Flight GE P-51 (1/7th Scale). I wanted to know what type of weight gain I would get so I bought a gram scale before I started building. Below are my results after finishing.
I'd like to know how much total weight gain I would have gotten with other covering methods, especially monokote. If anyone can tell me I'd appreciate it.
P-51 Build Weights in Grams (1lb = 453 grams)
Note: Covered with .75oz FG cloth and Polycrylic Water Based Acrylic. Painted with Behr Metallic Silver Acrylic and Nelson Hobbies Water Based Polyurethane.
FUSELAGE:
Sanded Fuse Ready to Cover: 1069
Glassed with .75oz FG and Polycrylic WB: 1125
Bondo 907 and sanded: 1134
1 Coat Primer (unsanded) : 1272
Primer Sanded: 1180
Cockpit added: 1257
2 coats Behr Silver Acrylic: 1282
Paint (all colors) complete 5-6 coats WBPU: 1300
With clear coat (3 coats): 1319
Total gain from glassing and painting (fuselage): Approx. 170 grams
WING:
Sanded Wing Ready to Cover: 1035
Glassed and primer (sanded): 1083
1 coat Behr Silver Acrylic: 1090
All paint added (5-6 coats Nelson WBPU): 1128
Clear coats added (3-4 coats): 1152
Total gain from glassing and painting (wing): Approx. 117 grams
TOTAL GAIN FROM COVERING (ENTIRE AIRCRAFT): 287 Grams / .63 lbs
#32
My Feedback: (121)
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
Radio South used to sell PPG automotive acrylic enamel in smaller quantities (pints). I always had to buy at least a quart of paint when puurchasing from an auto paint supplier - which lasts forever if you're just using it for trim colors!!
I accidently discovered the ability to monokote over fiberglass about 25 years ago when the paint I purchased (had mixed, in fact) didn't match the monokote. So I decided to try to monokote the cowl and wheel pants. At little tricky at first, but the results were quite good. I did clear coat to prevent monokote peeling. Lasted several years of flying. Didn't matter much on the final crash...[&o]
Painting 'light' isn't difficult, but it is very easy to spray on more paint than necessary. Just enough for uniform coverage. Good lighting is essential!!
-Will
I accidently discovered the ability to monokote over fiberglass about 25 years ago when the paint I purchased (had mixed, in fact) didn't match the monokote. So I decided to try to monokote the cowl and wheel pants. At little tricky at first, but the results were quite good. I did clear coat to prevent monokote peeling. Lasted several years of flying. Didn't matter much on the final crash...[&o]
Painting 'light' isn't difficult, but it is very easy to spray on more paint than necessary. Just enough for uniform coverage. Good lighting is essential!!
-Will
#33
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
i found a nice comparison chart showing the various weights of coverings: 1/2 fiberglass cloth seems to be one of the lightest coverings on the list. of course add paint but that won't increase the overall weight to much.
david
Covering and Painting Weights
Here's a table of, purported, covering weights originated by Fritz Bien, Charles River Radio Controllers, December 1996, with other contributors (August 1995 Flying Models article, Herm Perez, adding covering data, and Radio Control Soaring Exchange [RCSE] articles):
Covering Weights Chart Covering Color Weight [gm/sq ft] Comments
Monokote Red 5.8 circa 1996
Monokote Yellow 7.5 circa 1996
Monokote Metallic Platinum 6.0 circa 1996
Monokote Red 7.1 circa 1971
Monokote Black 6.0 circa 1985
Monokote White 7.3 circa 1990
Monokote Transparent Red 5.5 circa 1988
Monokote Orange Florescent 9.4 circa 1996
Ultracote Dark Red 8.5 circa 1996
Ultracote Cub Yellow 6.6 0.002 in thick
Ultracote Plus Pearl Yellow 8.2 0.0022 in thick
Ultracote Transparent Yellow 5.0 0.0015 in thick
Ultracote Transparent Yellow (lite) 3.4 0.001 in thick
Century 21 Fabric White 10.4 Heavy!
MicaFilm Yellow & Red 4.0 Needs Balsarite
MicaFilm Preprimed 3.9
MicaFilm Transparent White 2.2 Needs Balsarite
Sig Koverall White 4.3 Needs dope or paint
Sig Supercote Silver 4.8
Esaki Light Silk Clear 0.97 REALLY Hard to put on
5/8 fiberglass/paint clear 3.9 Needs filler and color
Japanese Tissue all colors 0.65 The lightest!
Nitrate Dope clear 1.0 2 coats/ 50-50 thin
Dope, gloss finish all colors 7.0 8 clear, 4 color, 1 clear coats
Dope, over silk all colors 2.0
Polyester Dress Lining All colors 4.2 Needs Balsarite & dope
david
Covering and Painting Weights
Here's a table of, purported, covering weights originated by Fritz Bien, Charles River Radio Controllers, December 1996, with other contributors (August 1995 Flying Models article, Herm Perez, adding covering data, and Radio Control Soaring Exchange [RCSE] articles):
Covering Weights Chart Covering Color Weight [gm/sq ft] Comments
Monokote Red 5.8 circa 1996
Monokote Yellow 7.5 circa 1996
Monokote Metallic Platinum 6.0 circa 1996
Monokote Red 7.1 circa 1971
Monokote Black 6.0 circa 1985
Monokote White 7.3 circa 1990
Monokote Transparent Red 5.5 circa 1988
Monokote Orange Florescent 9.4 circa 1996
Ultracote Dark Red 8.5 circa 1996
Ultracote Cub Yellow 6.6 0.002 in thick
Ultracote Plus Pearl Yellow 8.2 0.0022 in thick
Ultracote Transparent Yellow 5.0 0.0015 in thick
Ultracote Transparent Yellow (lite) 3.4 0.001 in thick
Century 21 Fabric White 10.4 Heavy!
MicaFilm Yellow & Red 4.0 Needs Balsarite
MicaFilm Preprimed 3.9
MicaFilm Transparent White 2.2 Needs Balsarite
Sig Koverall White 4.3 Needs dope or paint
Sig Supercote Silver 4.8
Esaki Light Silk Clear 0.97 REALLY Hard to put on
5/8 fiberglass/paint clear 3.9 Needs filler and color
Japanese Tissue all colors 0.65 The lightest!
Nitrate Dope clear 1.0 2 coats/ 50-50 thin
Dope, gloss finish all colors 7.0 8 clear, 4 color, 1 clear coats
Dope, over silk all colors 2.0
Polyester Dress Lining All colors 4.2 Needs Balsarite & dope
#35
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: elko, MN
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Paint for Pattern Planes
ORIGINAL: RCDENT
In the late 1980's, I remember seeing one of Steve Helms's Auroras up close and inside. The finish was immaculate and the fuse appeared to be made from a molded balsa shell. All of the inside parts were sanded smooth and coated so that the interior of the fuse was just as impressive as the outer finish. At the time, I think he said they cost around $2,300 to 2,800 each. Very professional!
I've been pricing out various paint systems, and now I see why film coverings and ARF's are so popular! I can buy the ARF Intruder for little more than it will cost me to paint the Tipo with some systems! Ed has a good point about planes accumulating hangar rash, etc. Still, we do this hobby/sport for a number of different reasons. Sometimes, the important thing is just to have something that flys, other times, there is a lot of satisfaction in the craftsmanship and individuality that goes into a good painted finish. I love to eat out. Sometimes I feel like fine dinining and wine, sometimes I feel like babecue and beer. Both are great, but different. One thing I don't like about film finishes is that the balsa surface is still soft. I almost feel like the plane gets dented every time I pick it up, unless I'm extremely careful. Also, the edges always start peeling up after a while. The auto enamel and epoxies make beautiful finishes, but seem difficult to touch up when dinged. Old fashion silk/dope was so easy to fix.
I think the bottom line is, results depend on the builder and his/her talent and experience with the materials being used.
Anyone used the Nelson Hobbies system? Sounds good, with water thinning and clean up. www.nelsonhobby.com
In the late 1980's, I remember seeing one of Steve Helms's Auroras up close and inside. The finish was immaculate and the fuse appeared to be made from a molded balsa shell. All of the inside parts were sanded smooth and coated so that the interior of the fuse was just as impressive as the outer finish. At the time, I think he said they cost around $2,300 to 2,800 each. Very professional!
I've been pricing out various paint systems, and now I see why film coverings and ARF's are so popular! I can buy the ARF Intruder for little more than it will cost me to paint the Tipo with some systems! Ed has a good point about planes accumulating hangar rash, etc. Still, we do this hobby/sport for a number of different reasons. Sometimes, the important thing is just to have something that flys, other times, there is a lot of satisfaction in the craftsmanship and individuality that goes into a good painted finish. I love to eat out. Sometimes I feel like fine dinining and wine, sometimes I feel like babecue and beer. Both are great, but different. One thing I don't like about film finishes is that the balsa surface is still soft. I almost feel like the plane gets dented every time I pick it up, unless I'm extremely careful. Also, the edges always start peeling up after a while. The auto enamel and epoxies make beautiful finishes, but seem difficult to touch up when dinged. Old fashion silk/dope was so easy to fix.
I think the bottom line is, results depend on the builder and his/her talent and experience with the materials being used.
Anyone used the Nelson Hobbies system? Sounds good, with water thinning and clean up. www.nelsonhobby.com
NN