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Well got my first pattern Plane

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Old 06-19-2008 | 09:31 AM
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Default Well got my first pattern Plane

Well I flew in my first SPA contest June 7th and 8th, with a small 39 ounce 44 inch wingspan electric airplane. I did good for my first one took 8th out of 11 pilots.

So everyone in my home club thought I needed a pattern plane to fly, so one member was nice enough to give me a plane he had built. this is a utter koas. its got a Super tiger 61 engine on it. some old JR servos and I put in a Hitec Electron 6 RX using a Prism radio with a 4 cell Tenergy rx pack.

I just got finished going over the whole plane yesterday, had a few minor things had to change/fix on it. I think its a nice looking plane and will fly it as it is untill I can afford something else.
it weighs 6 and a quarter pounds.


I plan to run the engine today to see how it runs and it will get flown saturday or before if the weather is nice.
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Old 06-19-2008 | 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Congratulations, looks like you're off to an excellent start, Enjoy!!
Old 06-19-2008 | 10:11 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

And another one joins the fold...........
Old 06-19-2008 | 11:26 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Thanks, I just got finished running the engine, it cranks great but was adjusting needle as it was to lean. Anyone with this motor can tell me how many turns out normally it likes to run? also what fuel do people use in this engine.

I think I am about 3 turns out how or well 2 1/2 I was testing it by pinching the line and got it where it barly speed up when pinched it. but then it was dieing out when went from low to WOT really fast.
Old 06-19-2008 | 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

ORIGINAL: Night_prowler26

...but then it was dieing out when went from low to WOT really fast.
If it die's out with a blubbering like it's too rich and can't clear its throat, maybe the idle mixture is a hair rich?
Old 06-19-2008 | 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Chris;

I'm glad you got a good plane to fly with, it looks very nice. I like the color scheme. What does it look like on the bottom side? Is the engine brand new or did it come on the plane used? If new it could be a little lean on the low end if it quit quickly when advancing the throttle fast. If it did what Jeff was saying then it is defiantly rich on low end. If it is used and there is any fuel filters I would go ahead and change them out for new ones including your glow plug before fine tuning.

Glad to see you getting into the SPA!!!!! If you need anything let me know. Hate to hear you can't make it up to Asheville.
Old 06-19-2008 | 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Hey, thanks the motor came with the plane, I think its still new, said he only flew the plane about 20 flights.

I will get some of the guys to help me sat tune it, I never learned how to tune that good, my father done all of my tunning since we always flew together up untill this year.

here are pics of the bottom. part of the checker was on it and we got some sticky trim and finished I just hope they stay on and don't blow off.

No fuel filters on the plane, Think I should run one? never have on any glow planes.I am just worried cause the tank is under the wing so there is about 9 or 10 inches of fuel line running from tank to motor. I have ordered a header tank to put inline with it but won't be in untill next week.

the glow plug seems to be good I mean it cranks up everytime w/o issues.


I wish I could make it also, hopefully next year I can be able to make a few of the contests. I am going to try to make Mac's this year but no promises, Money is tight right now.



ORIGINAL: patternflyer76

Chris;

I'm glad you got a good plane to fly with, it looks very nice. I like the color scheme. What does it look like on the bottom side? Is the engine brand new or did it come on the plane used? If new it could be a little lean on the low end if it quit quickly when advancing the throttle fast. If it did what Jeff was saying then it is defiantly rich on low end. If it is used and there is any fuel filters I would go ahead and change them out for new ones including your glow plug before fine tuning.

Glad to see you getting into the SPA!!!!! If you need anything let me know. Hate to hear you can't make it up to Asheville.
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Old 06-19-2008 | 08:42 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane


ORIGINAL: Night_prowler26

Well I flew in my first SPA contest June 7th and 8th, with a small 39 ounce 44 inch wingspan electric airplane. I did good for my first one took 8th out of 11 pilots.

So everyone in my home club thought I needed a pattern plane to fly, so one member was nice enough to give me a plane he had built. this is a utter koas. its got a Super tiger 61 engine on it. some old JR servos and I put in a Hitec Electron 6 RX using a Prism radio with a 4 cell Tenergy rx pack.

I just got finished going over the whole plane yesterday, had a few minor things had to change/fix on it. I think its a nice looking plane and will fly it as it is untill I can afford something else.
it weighs 6 and a quarter pounds.


I plan to run the engine today to see how it runs and it will get flown saturday or before if the weather is nice.

-


The Utter Chaos with the ST .61 is an excellent SPA combination.

I flew my Utter Chaos for a couple of years and really enjoyed the model. Even though there are some significant differences between the Utter Chaos and the original Kaos/Super Kaos, the essence of Kaos flight performance is still there, albeit a bit smoother and a tad more streamlined. Nice looking model you received too.

You can go quite a ways with that model. Hope to see you at one of the contests.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-19-2008 | 08:43 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

ST's need some break in time to create that sweet spot; when they do, you'll never need to play with the adjustments. Only one setback to flying pattern ships and that is nothing else you have will be as fun to fly again so it will be a competition as to what else you are going to bring to the field besides the Kaos. Nice ship.
Old 06-19-2008 | 09:28 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Well, I enjoy mostly 3D flying, but going to put some SPA in the mix with it, most guys only fly one type of plane, if I like this one however I thinking about buying the 40 size just to have something smaller to fly, I have a feeling this big plane/motor going to burn some nitro.


Thanks everyone, I think its a great looking plane also, and I hope it flys as well as it looks.

Chris


ORIGINAL: Roary m

ST's need some break in time to create that sweet spot; when they do, you'll never need to play with the adjustments. Only one setback to flying pattern ships and that is nothing else you have will be as fun to fly again so it will be a competition as to what else you are going to bring to the field besides the Kaos. Nice ship.
Old 06-19-2008 | 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

The Tigre only needs 5% nitro to idle and transition superbly. Burning low nitro (5%) fuel with a prop that will let the engine rev into the design range will minimize fuel consumption and will extend engine and glow plug longevity considerably. Pattern flying isn't racing. There are no extra points for going extra fast. Consistency is more important than all out speed. Consistency is one of the reasons that I've always liked ST/Webra/OS engines over some other, higher powered, but flakier, engine brands (not Rossi).

Pick up a Jett or Ultrathrust muffler for the engine and prop the engine to run in the muffler maker's rpm range. This means no 12x7 or 12x8 props on a 10cc engine that is not a long stroke, lower rpm engine, such as the OS SF and RF series. You should be trying 11x7, 11x7.5 to 11x8 props, or even a few 12x6 props if you need the vertical emphasis. Not all props load the engine equally, so be sure that whichever prop you use keeps the engine in the Jett or Ultrathrust muffler's recommended rpm range.

I've switched from Perry and Robart pumps to Cline and Iron Bay fuel pressure regulators. They are much easier to dial in. In fact, most times, there is no dialing in at all. They work best when the tank is pressurized by two-stroke crankcase pressure lines fitted with a check valve (one way valve). This is a very easy mod (adding a lower crankcase pressure nipple to a two-stroke glow engine) to do, but if anyone has trouble, feel free to contact me and I'll walk you through it, as will many others here on RCU, I'm sure.

Stay with the .60 engine, but keep the fuel costs down by staying with 5% (or less) nitro in the fuel. The ST engines will tolerate straight synthetic oil easily, but I always run a tad of castor oil in the mix. It can't hurt and it doesn't add much of a mess to clean up. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-20-2008 | 07:56 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Man, must be rough. The only thing I get for free from other club members is a hard time.............waaaah. Just kidding, nice airplane, I'm sure you will enjoy it! sugarfox
Old 06-20-2008 | 09:30 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane


ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

The Tigre only needs 5% nitro to idle and transition superbly. Burning low nitro (5%) fuel with a prop that will let the engine rev into the design range will minimize fuel consumption and will extend engine and glow plug longevity considerably. Pattern flying isn't racing. There are no extra points for going extra fast. Consistency is more important than all out speed. Consistency is one of the reasons that I've always liked ST/Webra/OS engines over some other, higher powered, but flakier, engine brands (not Rossi).

Pick up a Jett or Ultrathrust muffler for the engine and prop the engine to run in the muffler maker's rpm range. This means no 12x7 or 12x8 props on a 10cc engine that is not a long stroke, lower rpm engine, such as the OS SF and RF series. You should be trying 11x7, 11x7.5 to 11x8 props, or even a few 12x6 props if you need the vertical emphasis. Not all props load the engine equally, so be sure that whichever prop you use keeps the engine in the Jett or Ultrathrust muffler's recommended rpm range.

I've switched from Perry and Robart pumps to Cline and Iron Bay fuel pressure regulators. They are much easier to dial in. In fact, most times, there is no dialing in at all. They work best when the tank is pressurized by two-stroke crankcase pressure lines fitted with a check valve (one way valve). This is a very easy mod (adding a lower crankcase pressure nipple to a two-stroke glow engine) to do, but if anyone has trouble, feel free to contact me and I'll walk you through it, as will many others here on RCU, I'm sure.

Stay with the .60 engine, but keep the fuel costs down by staying with 5% (or less) nitro in the fuel. The ST engines will tolerate straight synthetic oil easily, but I always run a tad of castor oil in the mix. It can't hurt and it doesn't add much of a mess to clean up. Good luck and let us know how you are doing.


Ed Cregger
your the 2nd one to say need to run 5% fuel, only thing is no one around me sells it, I use 5% in my quickie 500 with a speed webra 40 with tuue pipe cause it won't run on anything else.

I have a 11x8 prop on this enhine now thats what he said he used. others looked and said needed a 12x6 or something. I really don't know. I have some fuel not sure what % it is, I used it last night and it seemed to run better. I think its 10%.

Sugarfox, I am a lucky guy, I fly with some Super great flyers and there all willing to help each other out. We all have a great time at our home feild and kid around all the time, but when we need help its there. I didn't ask for anything but was just offered it. I feel bad about this guy not wanting anything in return, but maybe one day I can help him out with something.

Old 06-20-2008 | 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Night prowler, hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way, was just joking. I fly with a great group of guys too and helping each other out is part of the fun. However you've got to be tough to hang with us as we hassle each other constantly all in fun. Having a friend that helps you out without your asking or wanting anything in return is a special friend indeed. Not many of those around. No need to feel bad just remember your good fortune and help someone else in need one day and you will carry the tradition forward. Ed's right about the low nitro with super togre engines. They will actually run pretty good with no nitro. In europe they don't use nitro and the engines are designed to run without it. However, as Ed said it does help with the transition and idle and your just wasting money with more nitro. Might add a few rpm but not enough for us to notice and its harder on the engines in higher percentages. Treat that engine right and it will give you good service for many years. regards sugarfox
Old 06-21-2008 | 05:06 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Yeah I knew you was kidding, and sounds like my club, few of the guys give each other a really hard time, in fun. I think I have 10% now, I will have my 5% with me today cause taking my racde plane might have to try it with it. just have to figure out whre i can buy more 5% at.


ORIGINAL: sugarfox

Night prowler, hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way, was just joking. I fly with a great group of guys too and helping each other out is part of the fun. However you've got to be tough to hang with us as we hassle each other constantly all in fun. Having a friend that helps you out without your asking or wanting anything in return is a special friend indeed. Not many of those around. No need to feel bad just remember your good fortune and help someone else in need one day and you will carry the tradition forward. Ed's right about the low nitro with super togre engines. They will actually run pretty good with no nitro. In europe they don't use nitro and the engines are designed to run without it. However, as Ed said it does help with the transition and idle and your just wasting money with more nitro. Might add a few rpm but not enough for us to notice and its harder on the engines in higher percentages. Treat that engine right and it will give you good service for many years. regards sugarfox
Old 06-21-2008 | 05:14 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

If it runs good on 10% and you can stand the fuel consumption, don't bother changing. I was just trying to tell you how to get the most flight time out of a gallon of fuel. The nitro percentage of the fuel does have an important impact upon fuel consumption. Of course, this also depends upon your tuning habits, type of prop used, glow plug, ambient weather conditions, etc. Have fun.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-21-2008 | 06:08 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

And remember that the Tigres are European engines, designed to run on no or very low nitro fuels.
Evan.
Old 06-21-2008 | 07:27 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

No problem Ed, I appreciate the input.

Well I got to fly her today, a member of my club helped me tune it and got it running good.
so first flight only needed a little trim, and got her flying stright. Engine was running okay but I was worried about it, Done normal stright passes to see how it was doing then I did a Roll , WOW that was fast for pattern, So fliped to low rates and tryed again, Much better that looked like a Pattern roll to us.

next thing you know I was doing stall turns, 4 point rolls, 3 continuious rolls, half cuban 8's whatever you can name. the wind calmed down so i could land right to left ( uphill and everyones choice at my feild) so i went for it, first landing was great.

got it on the table and trimed out my trim in the radio, and gave myself some more rudder control and got it working the same both ways.

2nd flight was good but a little out of trim from the re trim got it trimed out and flew around same stuff as first flight. then it started raining so had to come in early, that was a short flight.

Checked things over while it rained and found the round piece at the nose of the plane was loose, so i glued it with some CA and flew after the rain.

Wow some people online had me scared, I am glad i do not listen to everyone, i had read this is a bad plane to do 4 point rolls with, well I done 4 point rolls w/o issues and then thought hey lets see if it knife edge. well it will KE as well as my 3D planes, I KE the lengh of my feild no problems at all.

So it was a good day at the feild, wish could have flown more but worried about the tank, I am about to try to add a header tank and hope that fixes the fuel issue. so i can get lots more flying done on this plane.


ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

If it runs good on 10% and you can stand the fuel consumption, don't bother changing. I was just trying to tell you how to get the most flight time out of a gallon of fuel. The nitro percentage of the fuel does have an important impact upon fuel consumption. Of course, this also depends upon your tuning habits, type of prop used, glow plug, ambient weather conditions, etc. Have fun.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-21-2008 | 08:51 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

I run 20% Pro Pattern fuel in my ST X-61 that is in my MK Arrow. Runs great, nice and smooth; on a pipe and no lean runs.
I only use one fuel for all my pattern planes, turn-around, SPA/ BPA. no difference.

Orlando.
Old 06-21-2008 | 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

I have heard good stuff about the pro pattern fuel but never tryed any.
Old 06-22-2008 | 12:24 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Ed makes a good point on nitro content in the ST fuel; however out here in Ca. we have the Hobby People chain and when they sell fuel on a discount, it is usually the Powermaster 15%. No prob except that on sale the 15% runs about 5$ cheaper than 5%. I guess you can get out the head shims.
Old 06-22-2008 | 01:02 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Yep, headshims will do just fine with higher nitro fuel.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-22-2008 | 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

a washer under the glowplug. Seems to be working OK.

Orlando
Old 06-23-2008 | 09:45 AM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

never heard of anyone doing that, what does shimming the head or glow plug do?

I flew it two more times yesterday, after adding a small one ounce header tank, seemed to run better but still a 2 cycle. yuck, makes a mess. I love my 0s70 on my profile plane hardly any mess.

Anyways I flew the novice pattern it flys well I need to add some tail weight to it as its very nose heavy. but other then that it does fly nice.


ORIGINAL: crashlander

a washer under the glowplug. Seems to be working OK.

Orlando
Old 06-23-2008 | 06:13 PM
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Default RE: Well got my first pattern Plane

Raising the head via head shiums lowers the compression ratio slightly reducing the tendancy to blow glow plugs due to the higher temperature the additional nitro content will cause; this is especially true on a piped engines.
In my case, running my ST X-61 with tuned pipe, on 3 engine runs I blew 2 plugs; not having head shims available, I placed a second plug washer under the glow plug achieveing the same thing as raising the head. I now have several runs on my ST X-61 and no blown plug yet.
So it seems to work. The only difference I noticed, the RPM's on the ground reduced by 165 RPM's, not enough to make a difference.

Orlando


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