Banshee
12-10-2009 | 02:20 PM
#26
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From: Concord,
NH
RE: Banshee
David,
Thanks for the compliment. Having built a few electrics, and needing to pay particular attention to weight with those planes, tight joints and minimal glue have nearly become a habit.
Gremlin,
What a cool color scheme on that Banshee of yours!
It’s nearly a negative of its’ self!
I have gone with the barn door ailerons. Although I won’t have anything to compare it to, I’m confident that they will work out fine. Jim Martin’s original had the barn doors, and I suspect that the strips were just a matter of ease of assembly, and, cost for the production J&J kit.
Evan,
Yup, that last sentence drives home the point. Not a lot of feedback to the servo from the nosewheel when properly set up. I really didn’t want to put a MG servo on the rudder; just trying to out-think myself……
A correctly laid out pushrod system should be sufficient.
Thanks.
Thanks for the compliment. Having built a few electrics, and needing to pay particular attention to weight with those planes, tight joints and minimal glue have nearly become a habit.
Gremlin,
What a cool color scheme on that Banshee of yours!
It’s nearly a negative of its’ self!
I have gone with the barn door ailerons. Although I won’t have anything to compare it to, I’m confident that they will work out fine. Jim Martin’s original had the barn doors, and I suspect that the strips were just a matter of ease of assembly, and, cost for the production J&J kit.
Evan,
Yup, that last sentence drives home the point. Not a lot of feedback to the servo from the nosewheel when properly set up. I really didn’t want to put a MG servo on the rudder; just trying to out-think myself……
A correctly laid out pushrod system should be sufficient.
Thanks.
12-10-2009 | 03:45 PM
#27
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From: Arlington,
TX
RE: Banshee
Doug, sorry for the poor photo quality but that is what you get when scanning a 35 year old photograph.
The color was a brilliant transparent blue epoxy made by leaching the dye out of Rit Dye using the K&B epoxy thinner and then putting the concentrated blue thinner in clear K&B epoxy and spraying it over a silver base coat. The bottom was left silver for high contrast in the rolls. Some days when the sun was right it flashed like a hooked marlin during the rolls.
The barn door ailerons should be just fine. Are you using two servos?
The color was a brilliant transparent blue epoxy made by leaching the dye out of Rit Dye using the K&B epoxy thinner and then putting the concentrated blue thinner in clear K&B epoxy and spraying it over a silver base coat. The bottom was left silver for high contrast in the rolls. Some days when the sun was right it flashed like a hooked marlin during the rolls.
The barn door ailerons should be just fine. Are you using two servos?
12-10-2009 | 05:26 PM
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From: Concord,
NH
RE: Banshee
Fiberglassing has commenced. I’m using Great Planes ¾ oz fiberglass, and Great Planes Finishing resin.
The resin is mixed 1 part resin, 1 part hardener, and 1 part Denatured alcohol. The alcohol and the hardener are combined and thoroughly mixed. The thinned hardener is then combined with the resin, mixed well, and allowed to sit for a few minutes.
The cloth is laid in place, brushed down with a natural hair paintbrush (places a bit of static cling to the cloth), and a foam brush is used to apply the thinned resin. I start in the center of the section to be ‘glassed, and work my way outward with a light jabbing motion. This method applies a very thin coat of resin, and rarely induces a wrinkle.
Generally, I like to have control over where the overlap seams are going to be, so I tend to place masking tape on the plane, and ‘glass just over the tape. Once the resin has dried, the raised edge created by the tape provides a good surface to sand/cut through the applied ‘glass. Although a bit more time is involved, I’ve found that having a straight line for the joint makes my life easier when feathering the seam (I know where it is….).
Also, in tight locations, the seam can be cut/scored, and sanded lightly to remove the tape. This can allow for a butt joint with adjoining pieces, an advantage where swinging a sanding bar is difficult.
Seams and edges are cut with 220 Wet/Dry, but most of the sanding is with 320 grit. The resin is thin enough so that minimal sanding is needed.
Usually a couple of passes are made with a hair dryer to help the resin penetrate the glass and balsa
The starting weight of the wing, less the ailerons and aileron servo covers, is 1.5 pounds (669 grams). We'll see where we end up.
The resin is mixed 1 part resin, 1 part hardener, and 1 part Denatured alcohol. The alcohol and the hardener are combined and thoroughly mixed. The thinned hardener is then combined with the resin, mixed well, and allowed to sit for a few minutes.
The cloth is laid in place, brushed down with a natural hair paintbrush (places a bit of static cling to the cloth), and a foam brush is used to apply the thinned resin. I start in the center of the section to be ‘glassed, and work my way outward with a light jabbing motion. This method applies a very thin coat of resin, and rarely induces a wrinkle.
Generally, I like to have control over where the overlap seams are going to be, so I tend to place masking tape on the plane, and ‘glass just over the tape. Once the resin has dried, the raised edge created by the tape provides a good surface to sand/cut through the applied ‘glass. Although a bit more time is involved, I’ve found that having a straight line for the joint makes my life easier when feathering the seam (I know where it is….).
Also, in tight locations, the seam can be cut/scored, and sanded lightly to remove the tape. This can allow for a butt joint with adjoining pieces, an advantage where swinging a sanding bar is difficult.
Seams and edges are cut with 220 Wet/Dry, but most of the sanding is with 320 grit. The resin is thin enough so that minimal sanding is needed.
Usually a couple of passes are made with a hair dryer to help the resin penetrate the glass and balsa
The starting weight of the wing, less the ailerons and aileron servo covers, is 1.5 pounds (669 grams). We'll see where we end up.
12-11-2009 | 08:40 AM
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From: Euharlee,
GA
RE: Banshee
Beautiful work Doug!! I Really like the masking tape trick for the straight line!! Very kewl..
I hope I'll get to this stage on some of my projects soon and have never done it before..I really appreciate you sharing the info and photos...
I've about decided I'm going to glass and paint everything I've got except my Calypso which I'll just cover...
Keep up the good work!!
Have Fun..
Chuck
I hope I'll get to this stage on some of my projects soon and have never done it before..I really appreciate you sharing the info and photos...
I've about decided I'm going to glass and paint everything I've got except my Calypso which I'll just cover...
Keep up the good work!!
Have Fun..
Chuck
12-26-2009 | 11:10 PM
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From: Concord,
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RE: Banshee
I’d like to start with a warning:
Do not operate Photo Software while under the influence of Over the Counter Cold Medicine, as you’ll probably delete half of your photos.
So with that in mind, I’ll do the best I can………
The wheel wells have been ‘glassed. The photos show the strut recess being taped and ‘glassed.
As far as the wheel wells themselves, I’ll try to describe as best I can.
-Cut a paper template of the bottom of the well, and of the sidewalls. The sidewall template should be accurate in circumference, but intentionally cut oversized in length (depth). This extra length will allow overhang out of the wells.
-Sandwich a piece of fiberglass between two pieces of paper. Smooth the fiberglass, and try to straighten the weave prior to placing the top piece of paper.
-Staple the paper/fiberglass/paper together around the edges. The staples should be placed just to the outside perimeter of the paper template of the piece that is to be cut (in this case, either the bottom of the well, or the sidewalls).
-Tape the template on the sandwich with clear tape.
-Cut out the fiberglass, using the template as a guide.
The bottom of the wells was fairly simple; drop the fiberglass in, and slowly apply the resin. The foam brush needs to stay put for several seconds so as to allow the resin to penetrate through to the balsa, and not lift off when removing the brush. This can be particularly troublesome on the sidewalls.
The bottom of the wing had masking tape covering the wheel well, and then the tape was cut to expose the well, using the sidewall as a guide. The first sidewall went smoothly, however, the amount of time I consumed waiting for the resin to penetrate the first sidewall allowed the resin to thicken enough that the glass would lift when ‘glassing the second one. Next time, I’ll make a second batch of resin.
With the top of the wing and the wheel wells glassed with one coat, I’ve added 1.6oz thus far.
Oh yeah, if using a foam brush, you can save a few bucks by simply making your own with a hunk of foam and some tape.
Sorry for the lack of photos. You know you’re getting old when Children’s Dimetapp and computers don’t mix………..
Do not operate Photo Software while under the influence of Over the Counter Cold Medicine, as you’ll probably delete half of your photos.
So with that in mind, I’ll do the best I can………
The wheel wells have been ‘glassed. The photos show the strut recess being taped and ‘glassed.
As far as the wheel wells themselves, I’ll try to describe as best I can.
-Cut a paper template of the bottom of the well, and of the sidewalls. The sidewall template should be accurate in circumference, but intentionally cut oversized in length (depth). This extra length will allow overhang out of the wells.
-Sandwich a piece of fiberglass between two pieces of paper. Smooth the fiberglass, and try to straighten the weave prior to placing the top piece of paper.
-Staple the paper/fiberglass/paper together around the edges. The staples should be placed just to the outside perimeter of the paper template of the piece that is to be cut (in this case, either the bottom of the well, or the sidewalls).
-Tape the template on the sandwich with clear tape.
-Cut out the fiberglass, using the template as a guide.
The bottom of the wells was fairly simple; drop the fiberglass in, and slowly apply the resin. The foam brush needs to stay put for several seconds so as to allow the resin to penetrate through to the balsa, and not lift off when removing the brush. This can be particularly troublesome on the sidewalls.
The bottom of the wing had masking tape covering the wheel well, and then the tape was cut to expose the well, using the sidewall as a guide. The first sidewall went smoothly, however, the amount of time I consumed waiting for the resin to penetrate the first sidewall allowed the resin to thicken enough that the glass would lift when ‘glassing the second one. Next time, I’ll make a second batch of resin.
With the top of the wing and the wheel wells glassed with one coat, I’ve added 1.6oz thus far.
Oh yeah, if using a foam brush, you can save a few bucks by simply making your own with a hunk of foam and some tape.
Sorry for the lack of photos. You know you’re getting old when Children’s Dimetapp and computers don’t mix………..
12-27-2009 | 12:02 AM
#32
Senior Member
RE: Banshee
ORIGINAL: DougC1
I’d like to start with a warning:
Do not operate Photo Software while under the influence of Over the Counter Cold Medicine, as you’ll probably delete half of your photos.
So with that in mind, I’ll do the best I can………
The wheel wells have been ‘glassed. The photos show the strut recess being taped and ‘glassed.
As far as the wheel wells themselves, I’ll try to describe as best I can.
-Cut a paper template of the bottom of the well, and of the sidewalls. The sidewall template should be accurate in circumference, but intentionally cut oversized in length (depth). This extra length will allow overhang out of the wells.
-Sandwich a piece of fiberglass between two pieces of paper. Smooth the fiberglass, and try to straighten the weave prior to placing the top piece of paper.
-Staple the paper/fiberglass/paper together around the edges. The staples should be placed just to the outside perimeter of the paper template of the piece that is to be cut (in this case, either the bottom of the well, or the sidewalls).
-Tape the template on the sandwich with clear tape.
-Cut out the fiberglass, using the template as a guide.
The bottom of the wells was fairly simple; drop the fiberglass in, and slowly apply the resin. The foam brush needs to stay put for several seconds so as to allow the resin to penetrate through to the balsa, and not lift off when removing the brush. This can be particularly troublesome on the sidewalls.
The bottom of the wing had masking tape covering the wheel well, and then the tape was cut to expose the well, using the sidewall as a guide. The first sidewall went smoothly, however, the amount of time I consumed waiting for the resin to penetrate the first sidewall allowed the resin to thicken enough that the glass would lift when ‘glassing the second one. Next time, I’ll make a second batch of resin.
With the top of the wing and the wheel wells glassed with one coat, I’ve added 1.6oz thus far.
Oh yeah, if using a foam brush, you can save a few bucks by simply making your own with a hunk of foam and some tape.
Sorry for the lack of photos. You know you’re getting old when Children’s Dimetapp and computers don’t mix………..
I’d like to start with a warning:
Do not operate Photo Software while under the influence of Over the Counter Cold Medicine, as you’ll probably delete half of your photos.
So with that in mind, I’ll do the best I can………
The wheel wells have been ‘glassed. The photos show the strut recess being taped and ‘glassed.
As far as the wheel wells themselves, I’ll try to describe as best I can.
-Cut a paper template of the bottom of the well, and of the sidewalls. The sidewall template should be accurate in circumference, but intentionally cut oversized in length (depth). This extra length will allow overhang out of the wells.
-Sandwich a piece of fiberglass between two pieces of paper. Smooth the fiberglass, and try to straighten the weave prior to placing the top piece of paper.
-Staple the paper/fiberglass/paper together around the edges. The staples should be placed just to the outside perimeter of the paper template of the piece that is to be cut (in this case, either the bottom of the well, or the sidewalls).
-Tape the template on the sandwich with clear tape.
-Cut out the fiberglass, using the template as a guide.
The bottom of the wells was fairly simple; drop the fiberglass in, and slowly apply the resin. The foam brush needs to stay put for several seconds so as to allow the resin to penetrate through to the balsa, and not lift off when removing the brush. This can be particularly troublesome on the sidewalls.
The bottom of the wing had masking tape covering the wheel well, and then the tape was cut to expose the well, using the sidewall as a guide. The first sidewall went smoothly, however, the amount of time I consumed waiting for the resin to penetrate the first sidewall allowed the resin to thicken enough that the glass would lift when ‘glassing the second one. Next time, I’ll make a second batch of resin.
With the top of the wing and the wheel wells glassed with one coat, I’ve added 1.6oz thus far.
Oh yeah, if using a foam brush, you can save a few bucks by simply making your own with a hunk of foam and some tape.
Sorry for the lack of photos. You know you’re getting old when Children’s Dimetapp and computers don’t mix………..
I first saw the Banshee 38 years ago. Jim Martin flew the thing at an astounding pace practicing for the Nats. I was too young and shy to go up and talk to him.
Fast forward 38 years....I met up with him just this Fall at his home field at the urging of Ed Alt who belong to that club. All I can say is a really nice man and full of ideas. I found out that he is of Armenian dissent just like me. Who knew!
Jim has been very gracious to me and invited me to join him anytime. I will probably join that club. Who knows I may get him to fly real pattern models again in addition to the IMAC types he flies now. He did share that he is planning to build an electric Banshee and we talked some about making it lighter.
Good luck with yours Doug
Matt Kebabjian
12-27-2009 | 04:38 AM
#33
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Banshee
ORIGINAL: DougC1
The DB nose wheel retract did require that plywood stand-offs had to be attached to the rear of the firewall. A front bracket on the nose wheel extends past the mounting plane, preventing a flush fit to the firewall. I suspect that the bracket is just not bent at a sharp enough angle, as a replacement backet that was sent to me exhibited the same issue.
Another fall back to the Flying Models plans was the use of angled dowels for the front of the wing. Since the nosewheel cutout removed the center section of the bulkhead, two dowels seem to be required. With the mid-wing design, I suspect that straight dowels will eventually go oblong with the wing being removed with a downward motion before they can be pulled rearward.
The DB nose wheel retract did require that plywood stand-offs had to be attached to the rear of the firewall. A front bracket on the nose wheel extends past the mounting plane, preventing a flush fit to the firewall. I suspect that the bracket is just not bent at a sharp enough angle, as a replacement backet that was sent to me exhibited the same issue.
Another fall back to the Flying Models plans was the use of angled dowels for the front of the wing. Since the nosewheel cutout removed the center section of the bulkhead, two dowels seem to be required. With the mid-wing design, I suspect that straight dowels will eventually go oblong with the wing being removed with a downward motion before they can be pulled rearward.
I'm glad that you pointed out the DB retract protrusion problem (into the back of the firewall). I have a new set of DB retracts and a used set of Rhoms that I have accumulated. The belly mount nose gear of the Rom-Air gear will be tons easier to mount, just at a cursory glance. I can't say that the Rom-Airs will work any better or be more reliable than the DB Products retracts, which will surely be a lighter set up. That carries some weight too.
Nice job. Keep up the good work.
Ed Cregger
12-27-2009 | 04:46 AM
#34
Senior Member
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Banshee
ORIGINAL: DougC1
Regarding Banshee variations, from what I understand, the Eureka short kit is a exact replication of the original kit produced by J&J Industries in the early '70s. In comparing the J&J plans to the FM plans, two things jump out at me; 1) a difference in the airfoil, and 2) the length of the fuselage being longer from the leading edge bulkhead to the nose on the J&J kit. I would speculate that the airfoil was changed on the J&J kit to allow for ''standard'' strip aileron stock to be used in the kit (the thicker airfoil on the FM plans does not transition into what I found available for aileron stock), and, the longer nose on the J&J kit makes it easier to install the fuel tank and retracts.
Actually, placing retracts and a fuel tank into the FM layout would probably cause me to develope a twitch.
You got to see Jersey Jim put on a demo! Just too cool. I understand that he's capable of being quite the showman.
I still have my ProLine single stick, but it will probably remain on the shelf a bit longer.
Doug</p>
Regarding Banshee variations, from what I understand, the Eureka short kit is a exact replication of the original kit produced by J&J Industries in the early '70s. In comparing the J&J plans to the FM plans, two things jump out at me; 1) a difference in the airfoil, and 2) the length of the fuselage being longer from the leading edge bulkhead to the nose on the J&J kit. I would speculate that the airfoil was changed on the J&J kit to allow for ''standard'' strip aileron stock to be used in the kit (the thicker airfoil on the FM plans does not transition into what I found available for aileron stock), and, the longer nose on the J&J kit makes it easier to install the fuel tank and retracts.
Actually, placing retracts and a fuel tank into the FM layout would probably cause me to develope a twitch.
You got to see Jersey Jim put on a demo! Just too cool. I understand that he's capable of being quite the showman.
I still have my ProLine single stick, but it will probably remain on the shelf a bit longer.
Doug</p>
I have built wood kits, fiberglass and foam and have even designed my own scratch built models from time to time. I never found the hobbyshop's aileron stock to be of any use, and always ended up buying thick sheets of balsawood and drawing up the ailerons on the rectangular sheets. I'd rough out the ailerons using my little Dremel Table Saw. After that it was whittling and sanding to get them to shape. Make two identical ailerons was tough at times, but I did it. I didn't have a choice. The aileron stock available at the hobbyshop was always too small in the places where it counted. Had I to do it all again today, I would make built-up ailerons instead of using heavy sheets of solid balsa, sawn, cut and sanded to shape.
I saw Jersey Jim Martin flying exhibition flights at the Lakehurst Naval Air Station in NJ. He was a master showman and an unbelieveably good pilot. That was back in 1970 or 71.
Ed Cregger
12-27-2009 | 01:13 PM
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From: Concord,
NH
RE: Banshee
With all of you guys having had to opportunity to either meet, or see Jim Martin fly, I’m beginning to think that living in New England all of my life thus far has kept me too sheltered. I’ve really got to make an effort to get to a SPA event this summer, as I must confess that I’ve never been to any sort of competitive event.
Here is the build article from Flying Models.
http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...es/banshee.pdf
It’s an informative, and often humorous read. Although Google yielded no results, Jim’s reference to “Snoopy’s Institute of Dog House Design”, leads me to believe that he is a degreed Aeronautical Engineer. It also seems that he designed, built, and flew at least two iteration of the aircraft before settling on the final plane. In my opinion, the Banshee is a very purposeful design, from the amount of fuselage side area, the lifting profile of the fuselage, the canopy placement, to the inverted “V” rudder.
Matt,
I’m pleased to know that Jim is still active, and by your location, he might still be “Jersey” Jim! I had started toying with an electric Banshee. I’d reduced it to a 50” wing to keep the battery cost down, and had the foam core cut. Hope to get back to it at some point.
Ed,
There are a few other annoyances with the DB retracts, such as the mounting plates on the mains aren’t parallel/flat, and several of the plastic standoff bosses were crushed during assembly. Nothing that can’t be rectified, but annoying nonetheless.
I’ve read many of your posts over the years; always informative and insightful. Thanks for checking in.
Doug
Here is the build article from Flying Models.
http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...es/banshee.pdf
It’s an informative, and often humorous read. Although Google yielded no results, Jim’s reference to “Snoopy’s Institute of Dog House Design”, leads me to believe that he is a degreed Aeronautical Engineer. It also seems that he designed, built, and flew at least two iteration of the aircraft before settling on the final plane. In my opinion, the Banshee is a very purposeful design, from the amount of fuselage side area, the lifting profile of the fuselage, the canopy placement, to the inverted “V” rudder.
Matt,
I’m pleased to know that Jim is still active, and by your location, he might still be “Jersey” Jim! I had started toying with an electric Banshee. I’d reduced it to a 50” wing to keep the battery cost down, and had the foam core cut. Hope to get back to it at some point.
Ed,
There are a few other annoyances with the DB retracts, such as the mounting plates on the mains aren’t parallel/flat, and several of the plastic standoff bosses were crushed during assembly. Nothing that can’t be rectified, but annoying nonetheless.
I’ve read many of your posts over the years; always informative and insightful. Thanks for checking in.
Doug
12-29-2009 | 03:43 PM
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From: Concord,
NH
RE: Banshee
ORIGINAL: speed-panzer
I read with great pleasure the Banshee article, but one question please - was it common to use a diamond shape airfoil for elevator? Never heard that before....
I read with great pleasure the Banshee article, but one question please - was it common to use a diamond shape airfoil for elevator? Never heard that before....
Here is an explaination;
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7769135
I'm sure that there are others here that can provide additional insight beyond my limited knowledge.
01-10-2010 | 05:04 PM
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From: Guyton , GA
RE: Banshee
Hi,
I just ran across this thread on the Banshee. I have an Airborne Associates version. It is a little different than the Fliyng Models plan that I also have. I saw Mr Martin do a flight demo with the Banshee at the Toledo Show when they had it at the Mud Hens Stadium. I don't remember the exact year, but bought one shortly after. I still have it and I'm still sitting on 2 Proline radios and a Weber Black head. Maybe one of these days I'll shake them out of storage and get it all together.
Does anyone know what colors the Banshee was painted?
I just ran across this thread on the Banshee. I have an Airborne Associates version. It is a little different than the Fliyng Models plan that I also have. I saw Mr Martin do a flight demo with the Banshee at the Toledo Show when they had it at the Mud Hens Stadium. I don't remember the exact year, but bought one shortly after. I still have it and I'm still sitting on 2 Proline radios and a Weber Black head. Maybe one of these days I'll shake them out of storage and get it all together.
Does anyone know what colors the Banshee was painted?
01-10-2010 | 06:51 PM
#43
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From: Concord,
NH
RE: Banshee
ORIGINAL: crankpin
There are some photo's on here with JJM and the plane, sitting in his house,do a search. I think it was silver.
Crank
There are some photo's on here with JJM and the plane, sitting in his house,do a search. I think it was silver.
Crank
Can anyone give me a recommendation as to where I might be able to have a Webra 61 Speed drilled and tapped for a bolt on muffler? And also a suggestion as to a commercially available muffler that would be a good match.
http://www.paulsmodelsupply.com/ perhaps?
Thanks.
03-17-2010 | 11:42 AM
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From: SHOHOLA,
PA
RE: Banshee
Hi Doug,
How is your Banshee project coming?
I have started on a fiberglass kit which I plan on powering with electric.
I am trying to find a set of electric retracts that would hold up to a 7lb plane.
Prop will be another problem I will need a 11X 13 three blade.
Jim Martin[img][/img]
How is your Banshee project coming?
I have started on a fiberglass kit which I plan on powering with electric.
I am trying to find a set of electric retracts that would hold up to a 7lb plane.
Prop will be another problem I will need a 11X 13 three blade.
Jim Martin[img][/img]
03-17-2010 | 01:15 PM
#45
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Banshee
Jim,
interesting follow up project to Doug's beautiful build.
Your wait for the electric retracts should be over soon. While Kraft Multicons can still be obtained from time to time and there are also a couple of European manufacturers of electric retracts (e.g., Lado & Geizendanner I believe), Horizon is soon to release a set of nice e-retracts for classic pattern (among others) designs. They should be available some time this Summer. Their little counterparts (for up to 4 lb models) are also available now (see pics).
As for the three blade prop you'll probably be able to use a non e-prop which should make things easier to find an over square prop. However, there are several non taildragger classics setup with e-power which use 2 blade props (e.g., Jeff's [Bootalini] Aurora build here). I think the trick is to find high kV motors that can produce ~1400-1600W on a two blader. You could check out the info on Jeff's Aurora's Hyperion. I haven't done the research but I know there are motors available that can do this on a 12" prop which you should be able to turn.
What do you have in mind for cooling and battery swapping? Wing removal is the obvious choice for LiPo's but I was wondering if you might be thinking along the lines of A123's (or similar) for a single permanent pack (probably 8s)?
David.
Edit: Forgot the pictures. Here they are.
interesting follow up project to Doug's beautiful build.
Your wait for the electric retracts should be over soon. While Kraft Multicons can still be obtained from time to time and there are also a couple of European manufacturers of electric retracts (e.g., Lado & Geizendanner I believe), Horizon is soon to release a set of nice e-retracts for classic pattern (among others) designs. They should be available some time this Summer. Their little counterparts (for up to 4 lb models) are also available now (see pics).
As for the three blade prop you'll probably be able to use a non e-prop which should make things easier to find an over square prop. However, there are several non taildragger classics setup with e-power which use 2 blade props (e.g., Jeff's [Bootalini] Aurora build here). I think the trick is to find high kV motors that can produce ~1400-1600W on a two blader. You could check out the info on Jeff's Aurora's Hyperion. I haven't done the research but I know there are motors available that can do this on a 12" prop which you should be able to turn.
What do you have in mind for cooling and battery swapping? Wing removal is the obvious choice for LiPo's but I was wondering if you might be thinking along the lines of A123's (or similar) for a single permanent pack (probably 8s)?
David.
Edit: Forgot the pictures. Here they are.
03-17-2010 | 10:05 PM
#46
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Banshee
ORIGINAL: JIM MARTIN
Hi Doug,
How is your Banshee project coming?
I have started on a fiberglass kit which I plan on powering with electric.
I am trying to find a set of electric retracts that would hold up to a 7lb plane.
Prop will be another problem I will need a 11X 13 three blade.
Jim Martin[img][/img]
Hi Doug,
How is your Banshee project coming?
I have started on a fiberglass kit which I plan on powering with electric.
I am trying to find a set of electric retracts that would hold up to a 7lb plane.
Prop will be another problem I will need a 11X 13 three blade.
Jim Martin[img][/img]
Hey, if that pretty bird is going to be electric, why is there a hole in the SIDE of the nose
03-18-2010 | 07:26 AM
#47
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From: Concord,
NH
RE: Banshee
Wow, I guess the pressure is really on now……..
Jim,
I ran into a few difficulties with the second coat of resin on the Banshee wing, mainly slow cures of resin, and coating thickness (older resin, and a bit chilly in the basement). I need to rethink my methods and materials, and think it best to have the base primer ready to shoot before I complete a second coat of resin on the entire plane, as being able to primer some of the smaller parts will allow me to see how I’m doing before I make any big mistakes. I’ve starting doing some homework on Mini-Spray Guns.
As I mentioned to you, I want to do as good a job as I can, and want to scratch my head a bit before proceeding. I became concerned with the quality of my work, and confused on how best to proceed.
So I stopped.
However, I was building a Super Kaos in parallel with the Banshee, and will have that wrapped up in a few weeks (the advantage of MonoKote). The Kaos will be a good “trainer” for the Banshee, and will also put some run time on my Webra Speed, so it’s all good.
Do you already own the power system for your electric version, as I think you should be able to back into a power system design from a more standard prop.
Jim, I can’t think of anything nicer than to have you checking into this thread. I’m looking forward to any posts you care to make on your electric version.
Doug
Jim,
I ran into a few difficulties with the second coat of resin on the Banshee wing, mainly slow cures of resin, and coating thickness (older resin, and a bit chilly in the basement). I need to rethink my methods and materials, and think it best to have the base primer ready to shoot before I complete a second coat of resin on the entire plane, as being able to primer some of the smaller parts will allow me to see how I’m doing before I make any big mistakes. I’ve starting doing some homework on Mini-Spray Guns.
As I mentioned to you, I want to do as good a job as I can, and want to scratch my head a bit before proceeding. I became concerned with the quality of my work, and confused on how best to proceed.
So I stopped.
However, I was building a Super Kaos in parallel with the Banshee, and will have that wrapped up in a few weeks (the advantage of MonoKote). The Kaos will be a good “trainer” for the Banshee, and will also put some run time on my Webra Speed, so it’s all good.
Do you already own the power system for your electric version, as I think you should be able to back into a power system design from a more standard prop.
Jim, I can’t think of anything nicer than to have you checking into this thread. I’m looking forward to any posts you care to make on your electric version.
Doug
03-18-2010 | 11:21 AM
#48
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From: SHOHOLA,
PA
RE: Banshee
Let me say that I am flattered that there are people that remember the Banshee.
I will consider all available retracts weight is the most important.
The motor as of now will be the PA thrust 50 out runner.
Power will come from two 2200mAh 11.1v lipo packs.
(Cooling and battery swapping) I haven’t gotten that far yet.
(Why is there a hole in the SIDE of the nose?) The kit is intended for glow power.
(Wow, I guess the pressure is really on now……..) Doug, You bet. I am sure yours will be done long before mine.
Jim Martin
I will consider all available retracts weight is the most important.
The motor as of now will be the PA thrust 50 out runner.
Power will come from two 2200mAh 11.1v lipo packs.
(Cooling and battery swapping) I haven’t gotten that far yet.
(Why is there a hole in the SIDE of the nose?) The kit is intended for glow power.
(Wow, I guess the pressure is really on now……..) Doug, You bet. I am sure yours will be done long before mine.
Jim Martin
03-18-2010 | 08:38 PM
#49
RE: Banshee
Glad to see you here Jim. I remember you coming down to the Delaware R/C field near Wilmington for the fun fly's. One year Jim and his Banshee were at the local airport in PA (New Garden) and flew a demo during the airshow. Jim literally drew a crowd; his performance equalled the aerobatic types flying the show.
03-19-2010 | 07:24 AM
#50
My Feedback: (41)
RE: Banshee
Hey Jim Martin you were one of the best ever. It's been a long time but I'll never forget how nice and helpful you were to me and my Dad in the early 70's when we were flying in the top level competitons.
The Banshee was a really cool looking plane. I'll never forget how fast it flew and how neat it was to watch you fly it. You always had a way of wowing the crowds with it. Also you were the guy who taught me how to slip a plane in for landing. Still to this day there are few who can master that skill and I've never seen anyone do it as well as you.
Great to see the Banshee resurface. I hope your doing well.
By the way I still compete and I've been all E. for the last 4 years. Your going to like it.
Take care, Mike Mueller
The Banshee was a really cool looking plane. I'll never forget how fast it flew and how neat it was to watch you fly it. You always had a way of wowing the crowds with it. Also you were the guy who taught me how to slip a plane in for landing. Still to this day there are few who can master that skill and I've never seen anyone do it as well as you.
Great to see the Banshee resurface. I hope your doing well.
By the way I still compete and I've been all E. for the last 4 years. Your going to like it.
Take care, Mike Mueller
