bem

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Hi,

Suppose You have a vintage andbuilt pattern plane that has no drawings (anymore) and You want to make a drawing now so it is possibleto build it again now andin future.
I need photos of course, from side, top, underside, front, rear etc.

But how is the root and tip airfoil best and easiest made, assuming you have access to the airplane? Same goes for the stab root and tip airfoil. And fuselage outside shape.

My plan is to use high resolution photos taken from some good distanceof the fuselage side, top and underside and then load it into a CAD program and resize it to known measured lengths. Same procedure with wing and stab. I have access to whole Autodesk arsenal of CAD software so it should be possible to get reasonable result.

But best method to get wing root and tip airfoil I have not figured out.

How would You do to get as exact replication of the actual model into a drawing with reasonable effort?

If You are interested it is this model below I plan to make a drawing on, it's name is "Bumling" and it placed 22 (of 60)in F3A World Championship 1971 in Doylestown USA. It flew also in World Championship 1973 in Gorizia Italy. Ihave established contact with the person that flew Bumling in those two World Championship, he has preserved his model in all the years after this. Two photos of Bumlingen below (not so goodquality but that is what I have for the moment). I will get better pictures later.

/Bo

Jeff Worsham

My Feedback: (28)

Hi Bo,
The 71 WC program has this page for the Swedish entries- appears there were a couple Bumlings. Is there an English meaning for the name Bumling?

Free Bird

Neat looking model. To me, it looks like it has some Eyeball features and a little Miss Norway thrown in for good measure.

FB

Trisquire

I would just pick a root and tip airfoil that I've had success with in the past, and That Looks About Right. Without drawings the whole plane will be a close approximation of the original anyway.

Tom

bem

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Jeff,

That was an amazing piece of information You had there. Bumling was constructed by Christer Gillgren from Sweden (he passed away som years ago). The model I will try to replicate that still remain intact was the plane in WC 1971 and 1973, builder and pilot/owner Göran Ridderström. The airplane shown in the picture for Göran Ridderström is notBumling (I think it isa model named Sly-Bird, another swedish pattern plane from beginning 1970th). Christer Gillgren has a Bumling standing on it's wing tip in the picture (his plane was yellow by the way).

Bumling is what we say about a (large) stone here in Sweden. Why the plane was named that could perhaps be because the kind of large fuselage - it is after all not so small and sleek as many other planes at that time. It could also be that it was on the heavy side compared to many planes from that era.

Other interesting information in that "National Identification - SE" sheet is that Christer Gillgren used a Swedish made radio control "Micronic". It was construced by civil engineer Gerhard Westerberg from Sweden but the radios wasmade in Japan (as ar as I know) and considered top of the line here in Sweden at the end of 1960th and beginning of 1970th.A picture of one Micronic 6 ch below. I know one club member in the RC club I was member in (at beginning to middle 1970th)had a Micronic 6 ch but not exactly the same gimbals as in picture below but the transmitter case was same anodized red aluminium. It had a very long antenna I remember (I flew with it a couple of times with a Graupner Cirrus sailplane that my friend let me control) and the linear servos was red and exactly same as EK-logictrol linear red servos (I know because I had a EK-logictrol myself and some if these servos). Well that was little RC history from this corner of the world.

/Bo

NikolayTT

Hi Bo,

It seems possible that you can buy than plane used and even cut it and make drawngs, isn't it ?
But cuting is not needed....and capturing can done from photos too. The Mechanical Engineers tend to use AutoCad and associated periferals to get the whole "thing"captured and even further prepared for cutting the balsa and plywood on NCM(numerical-control-machine, eventually also laser). You can even get some business refund if you do it for that plane. Unfortunately I am not knowing more about the specific tools, but AutoCad is one of the most popular. Why not checking with the nearest University or Professional School around - they might enjoy giving student project to capture the "thing" for you as part of the Student training - of course you should entertain them with some flying ... There are nice kids & teachers everywhere...

Cheers,
Nick

flywilly

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Hi Bo,
I think the biggest question is how accurate do you want the replica to be? Being the lazy sort on occasion, I might consider simply redrawing the Miss Norway plans.
Good Luck,
Will B.

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Nick,

I have been offered to visit the owner and measure Bumling. The owner has also offered me that he willtake whatever high resolution photos of the planeI need (I know that will be good quality since one of his interests is photography). I have access to all Autodesk softwares including AutoCAD etc. I will probably make a foam fuselage and cover it with glass fibre and epoxy, then make a mould I can use to get the actual fuselage halves and glue/glass them together. Wing and stab will be foam covered with balsa.
Thanks for the suggestion about the student thing.

/Bo

bem

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Will B,

I want the replica to be rather close, not 100% but at least as good so the eye from 2-3 meter/yards distance can not tell the replica from the orginal. I have seen Miss Norway plan in a book I have, RCM Flight Training Course Volume II, and last in that book it is a description and drawing of Miss Norway.

Biggest problem will probably to get the airfoil shape of wing root and wing tip and fuselage crossections (nose, at wing seat leading/trailing edge, tail etc).
It has been suggested I use an airfoil from another good flying pattern plane and that might be what I do but I have not decided that yet. Maybe I can solve much of fuselage crossection problem with photos from front, back side and also measurements of whole fuselage at critical points.

/Bo

AndyKunz

This would do the job:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10668

Andy

martenson

Bo, I have some original Starfighters decals, when you get it done I can give you some for you airplane.
I also have a Cirrus but with ProLine radio in :-)

Could'nt we start the Swedish or Scandinavian Vintage Pattern Association or SVPA :-)
I now have 7 vintage pattern planes and 2 new/old planes.

When you talk to Riddis again tell him Hi from Gerger's son.

Take care.
Joakim Martenson

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Andy,

I have been thinking of something like that, I know it was flexible rulers but a "contour guage" seems exactly what I need. Thanks for the suggestion! I have ordered a contour guage now, it is 38 cm/15 inch long so it should be able to give a contour of most fuselages halves vertically and perhaps half wing profiles also. Picture of the contour guage I bought (it cost about US $56).

/Bo

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Joakim,

Would be nice to get some Starfighters decal(s) if you can do without some of them.

I had my own Graupner Cirrus also in middle of 1970th but the fuselage broke in two pieces since it was not so strong (ABS). I used a thin rubber rope and wow what acceleration it got up in the sky - the wings really flexed. One time I forgot to turn the reciever power on and released it in the rubber "catapult" rope and oboy what I felt stupid and had to watch the plane fly on it's own, it managed to fly by itself and landed safely on the field again. I have never forgot to turn on reciever power since. So You still have a Cirrus with a Pro Line radio, that is rare these days. I have been looking for a Graupner Cirrus kit on ebay for long long time but not found any good (I suppose there are few left). Pro Line radio was my dream radio when I was young but I had to settle with the less expensive EK-logictrol super pro 7 ch (that I still have in my "drawer" - I think it still work if I put in new batteries in TX and RX) but it is 27 MHz band so probably not wise to use it anymore.

Swedish or Scandinavian Vintage Pattern Association? Well why not, I have seen there have been some gatherings in Sweden of some of the old pattern flyers fromthe past. There is the Swedish Aeromodeller´s Oldtimer Association (Svenska Modellflygares Oldtimer Sällskap, SMOS) but it covers much broader spectrum of model flying and before RC even existed (free flight, line control, RC etc).

I remember You had a question some time ago about an old orange color pattern plane You havethat was finally identiffied by Benny Kjellgren as "Sly Bird" designed by Andreasson. That plane would be an interesting project to make a drawing of and build also. Have You flew anything with Your Sly Bird? What other old (and newer) pattern planes do you have?

Yes, I will tell Göran Ridderström when I speak to him next time You sent a greeting to him andit was Gerger Mårtensson's son that sent the greeting.

/Bo

martenson

Yes I have remaiden the SlyBird, but I had engine problems and only got two half bad flight's, but it flew nice.
So my lite stach of pattern planes are:

*TrueLine "Aggravator" with an 1968 HP
*Crusader with a 1967 HP
*Sly Bird with a piped OPS 61
*Curare with Rossi 61
*Calypso with Webra 61 Blackhead
*KwickFli with a Lee K&B 61 PDP
*Pulsarewith HP 61 Gold Cup
*Mach none with norvel.049
*Crusader shorkit that I'll build later
*Flair "Meteor" kit in box.

And a set of wings and stab for a Mach One, have to find some plans for a fuse and I build it.

Take care.
Joakim

bem

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Joakim,

I have Model Airplane News plan for Mach 1. You can buy it from MAN plans service.
http://modelairplanenews.com/ME2/dir...6E1BAD96EB2CBD
There is a PDF file there you open, search the PDF file for "Norm Page" and You will land on the page for Mach 1.

If You have trouble finding it I can copy my plan (or I can send You a PDF so You can take it to a plotting office like Arkitektkopia and have it printed in A0 format (or similar full scale format).
If You prefer Midwest Mach 1 plan I'm sure it can be found also on internet.
I have myself a Mach 1 short kit in transit to me now from Eureka Aircraft:
http://www.eurekaaircraft.com/plan_kits/machone.htm
I built a Mach 1 in 1975 so it is time for a new "bird" now.

/Bo

adhiraj

Hi, Can you make something out of this?

adhiraj

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9246499/tm.htm