H. Wayne S

My Feedback: (18)

Does anyone know if there is any Legal recourse one can take against someone that shoots you down, or can an idiot just turn on a transmitter and say "Opps, sorry" and walk away. Both parties members of AMA, 2nd time it's happened.

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

It's a shame that something like this should even need a "legal" recourse. At all the club fields I have ever flown at and even in the early 60's if you turned your TX on and shot somebody down you just bought them a new kit/and engine/radio repairs. I think it is one of those unwritten rules of R/C. But now, in the new millenium where NOBODY is responsible for their own actions, I think that you will have to at least speak w/an attorney concerning what can be done. I would think that at the minimum you have a small claims court case where you can show cause/effect/damage. I'm certainly not an attorney but that is what I would do in this case. Perhaps the guilty party could at least be spoken to about doing the "right thing" Sorry to hear about your loss. Good luck..

Deadstik

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

Yeah, the 'idiot' should at least offer a repair, or offer one of his own ships...

That's what the board is for.. and if in doubt, ask!!

"Hey, Who's on / Anyone on channel 29?!?!"
"Marky Farrel is I think"
"Where / Who is he?!?"
"Flying I think.. Yeah, that's him, the one in teh green hat.."

It's a club, and we're all supposed to know each other..

glowplug

My Feedback: (1)

A friend of mine has had this happen twice to him.......one guy did the right thing and bought him everything that was destroyed......the other guy didn't even take responsibility.........totally denied it...after the plane went down, he only said, "I didn't turn on my transmitter".......sad thing is he knew the guy that got shot down pretty well......
It's sad that it's had to come to legal recourse.......the guy should have been a man and stepped up and did the right thing.

H. Wayne S

My Feedback: (18)

Small claims court, one has to "PROVE" responsibility, been there,hey will not hear your claim espically if the offending party denies all responsibility. . The punk has been banned from the field, but that does not help pay for a $3,000.00 + plane. Like one stated, use to be no questions asked, the guilty party accepted the fact they were responsible, and offered to pay up or replace. Now days, different group of people out there.

FLYBOY

My Feedback: (11)

I have seen it happen. In most cases the person responcible payed for it, but not in all. Now that we have a walmart generation flying at the fields that don't give a rip about anyone else but themselves, you are probably going to be hosed. Not a good thing. Sorry for the loss.

H. Wayne S

My Feedback: (18)

"Hosed", thanks Flyboy, If I can find him I'll beat the H$#@ out of him with a hose, they don't leave a mark and in his own words "sorry bout that, But you'll have to prove it was me"
(or I've heard a hose won't leave marks) My luck someone will be filming the wind blowing and I'll be on the video beating his punk A%*.

deckerv

My Feedback: (21)

Had that happen to me @ an airshow.. Some jerk was running their engine up in the PARKING LOT while I was flying a Top flight p-47. It went totally beserk on me for about 1 full minute before it piled in about 1/2 mile away. When the officials @ the rally confronted him, he just packed up and left... didn't even see me since we were out getting the wreckage which was a TOTAL write off.

I know if I did it to someone, I'd definately replace the equip/airplane.


SOrry for the loss.. know exactly how you feel
Deck

Live Wire

With the new radios out and newbie at controls or a hot shot oldie !!!!! like me , freqency control is just about in the past. You are going to have to prove what channel he is or was on It could get interesting. Don't even use a cam corder near a person that can't fly! BEEN THERE DONE THAT.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

This is a real sticky situation that has been discussed a lot. You can search the Jet forum for a thread on an actual case that went to court. It was a situation where a Freq. flag was pulled and there were witnesses. Without witnesses or an admission of guilt there is no legal recourse.

There are also many, many times that people call out that they were hit when in fact it is much less common than snap stalls, bad batteries or switches, loose plugs and broken antennas.

H. Wayne, I understand your frustration but I hope your just venting and wouldn't actually act on what you are saying, that is a far cry from property damage through negligence and something the police would act on.

Some examples I have seen at our field.

A new Zero locked out and crashed. A frequency scanner indicated another radio on that channel which turned out to be a new electric. When confronted the pilot claimed to have the flag on 14 which turned out he put his flag in 41. When the park ranger call was threatened he wrote a check on the spot.

Another similar example that turned out to be a mislabeled radio that had been used for a year until the scanner caught it.

Getting back to the Jet case that I first mentioned. At what point does a person flying a $300 trainer have to be responsible because someone decides to spend $8000. on their model? I'm not sure on that one and do they own for the entire $8000 for a mistake?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Richard makes a good point, I think back in the day when people paid there were no such thing as 8000 or 12000 dollar airplanes.

So to you guys that say that you should just "pay" do you think most of the old timers would pony up 8k if they shot down a turbine? Do most people with trainers even know there are 8-15K+ planes that exist?


What we need is a radio that cannot be "shot down", either intentionally or unintentionally.

H. Wayne S

My Feedback: (18)

Not to worry BasinBum, I AM just venting, would never assalt someone over a $3000.00 plane, Prison ain't worth it and there is no way to make the money to replace the plane.(those fighting days are long long gone) It's just that #1- It was the 2nd time this guy has done this, both times resulted in the loss of a plane.(both times were not to me).
#2- His attitude that Well S&^* happens and that's tough. #3- The fact that he was not really sorry nor did he even give a darn nor even offer to help retreve the plane. Just got in his car and left.
We have strict rules at the field, you park, you place your transmitter on the impound table before you unload. You check the board before you test, start,assemble. If there is not an AMA card on the pin it's yours. These rules are in plane site and were explaned to this individual on SEVERAL occasions. He just chose to ignore thim. If someone gets there and flys without placing his card on the board and someone else comes along and hits him, well thats another story. Anyway, what's done is done and I realize there is no recorse that can be taken, My loss- "GET OVER IT" as they say.

NitroWoman

Try http://www.smithandwesson.com

ekrcflyer

What a shame!!!

Some people out there are forgetting more and more often that this hobby (like many other activities) not jus FUN, but also a great responsibility… Frequency control board –not for them, flying the pattern… “what pattern ???�, AMA rules – “who cares, I am paying my dues, that’s enough�….

H. Wayne, I am sorry about your loss, but it seems like you are out of luck. Court system won’t help because there is “no proof� (even though Judge Judy trying to prove otherwise) and the guilty party just have no balls to acknowledge the problem, not to mention offer some help or reimbursement. And I am not even talking about money – these people don’t have balls to acknowledge the amount of your time, thoughts, pane and little victories that you went through wile building this model!

Real pilots, car drivers, etc. can loose their privileges for not following certain rules. Something like that should be done in the RC world, especially in regards of RC airplanes, because after all the kind of ignorance such people demonstrate is a clear case of “public endangerment�.

We all make mistakes, but there is a clear distinction between an “honest mistake� and ignorance.

Scalebuff

LOL NITRO

ballgunner

My Feedback: (1)

Basin Bum hit the nail on the head when he asked how many people even reallize that there are models that cost $3000.00 and up. I don't think there should be a monetary limit on what one can spend on any aircraft but after you pass the range of 7 to 8 hundred bucks you have to take into account that some dummy will do the wrong thing either uninentionally or unknowlingly. Maybe this is the only form of relaxation he can afford and it's very little at that account a wife and kids, car payments, mortgage etc. To expect that poor guy to pony up 3 grand and up is going a bit far. Before he even started flying at any field he should have been throughly briefed and told of the possible consequences. For a moderately priced model he might be expected to pay what he can afford monthly. For the big boys there may be nothing he can do even when he sincerely regrets his lapse of acceptable RC conduct. If the guy is just sloppy and careless and even snotty about it he can be firmly denied the privelege of flying at your field. We had one like that and advised him to try any other hobby he could come up with as long as it wasn't RC. He was also advised that he was now in the position of having anything he flew treated in the same manner as he had shot down other aircraft. I have no idea what he does now for a hobby but it sure isn't flying RC.

Crashem

Not to offend anyone but I got to go with BB on this one...

First Rule I was taught was if you can't afford to crash it then you shouldn't fly it.

Know I'm not saying that it doesn't hurt to lose a 3k model ESPECIALLY being shot down. But we all do this hobby knowing the risks Being shotdown is not an automatic replace my plane.

Shoot downs are unfortunatlely part of the hobby just like mid-airs, mechanicals and dumb thumbs.

branded

My Feedback: (9)

I also agree with this idea. Everyplace I've ever flown, unless it was gross negligence, or malice, and I've never seen or heard of either instances, a shoot down is just an unfortunate part of the hobby, and is mostly unintentional, and a rare occurrence.

I've never been shot down (that I know of), but if ever it happened to me I'm sure I'd behave as gentleman and just acknowledge the apology.

I think it's a waste of time, and plain silly to beleive that one can litigate this matter in court.

Hey, sheet happens....

Stewart

If you can spill coffee on your lap and win a lawsuit why not sue for having your toy airplane shot down. After all this is America

ilikeplanes

I also agree that it's unreasonable to expect that a person must have the wherewithal to afford the liability of causing damage to a multi-thousand dollar model. I think a court would also find that expectation unreasonable.

Maybe another way of thinking about this is that you assume the liability for your own airplane regardless of who may cause damage to it. The argument could be made that operating a valuable model with radio equipment that's susceptible to being "shot down" is assuming an unreasonable property risk. And, as such, you would take full responsibility for damages that may occur to that model.

Come on, would you really expect someone who can barely afford a park flier to be liable for damages to a giant scale jet?

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

You were taught this in case you wrecked. If you can't afford to wreck your own plane then..... Not so someone could come along and take what you have and just say 'oh well'


I loose enough planes thru my own mistakes. I don't need any help <g>

*****

Wow, not me!!! It's one thing to say it guys but when your plane is laying there in pieces that you saved months and maybe years to get then I'll believe you. You are RESPONSIBLE for your actions. If you're in an accident with your car, you're either going to get compensation, pay compensation or be a skunk and run away as fast as possible!!!! If someone would come up to you and just take your plane and transmitter, would you just let them walk away? After all, 'you shouldn't come to the field if you can't afford to crash it' This is the same thing!! Jon

branded

My Feedback: (9)

Wow! This a great way to put it. You're absolutely correct in your assertion that we, as modelers that fly multi-thousand dollar aircraft need to assume the liability for damage, or destruction to the aircraft regardless of the source, be it an equipment failure, a dumb thumb, or an accidental shoot-down.......
[8D]

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

JonKoppish,
I agree with your analogy of someone taking your plane and walking away. If someone intentionally shot you down they are responsible. If it's an accident then the case becomes very murky and I really don't know what the fair solution is.

I disagree with you when you say, "It's one thing to say it guys but when your plane is laying there in pieces that you saved months and maybe years to get then I'll believe you". That is when your not thinking clearly at all. This thread affords us to think it through without the emotions of having just lost a plane.

The bottom line is there is no clear cut solution to this problem and hence the proliferation of threads on the topic.

As Matt stated earlier the answer is radios that can't be shot down i.e. digital spread spectrum and the sooner the manufacturers start selling them the sooner the price will drop so as anyone with an $800 dollar plane will be motivated to buy one, ending this discussion. Hopefully when we're old guys sitting around tables at the field we'll talk about the old days when you'd get "shot down" and newbies will ask us what that means.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

When 2 cars hit each other it's an accident, one or the other is usually at fault though and accountable! One good solution is not to fly if there's something in the air you can't afford to replace. The giant scale will be up for 10-15 minutes and the jet even less then it's your turn. Spread spectrum radios would be great. The tracker II has taken a good step toward the problem also. Jon

ilikeplanes

I anticipated, but was hoping to avoid, the auto accident analogy. My auto insurance policy has something like 150k property damage and 250k injury. I buy insurance not only because it's the law, but because there is no practical way I could afford to pay damages straight out of my pocket. The expectation of "shoot down" liability predicts an RC insurance policy.

This would definitely be an end to any so called model airplane hobby.