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AMA says, "Wait to register"

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AMA says, "Wait to register"

Old 12-18-2015, 02:42 PM
  #26  
eaglen2fb
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Read This !
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngogl...cly-available/
Old 12-18-2015, 02:45 PM
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great post, thanks
Old 12-18-2015, 02:50 PM
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RCKen
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Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
Where are the minutes available?
Not sure right off the top of my head. But they should be available online someplace. "Should be" the the term that scares me though. If I get some free time this weekend I'll look for them.

Ken
Old 12-18-2015, 02:53 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by RCKen View Post
Unfortunately I don't think that you DO known my opinion on the AMA, although you may think you know my opinions on the AMA. And yes, I do need to try to remain neutral here on RCU. Because of what I do with Moderating the AMA Forum on RCU I have remained neutral with my comments about the AMA here on RCU. Many years ago when I was just a moderator and I only moderated 2 forums the AMA forum was such a mess the Admins of RCU were ready to close it down because it was so out of control. I volunteered to take it over and clean it up. Part of cleaning it up was that I vowed to not participate in any discussions about the AMA in that forum, or elsewhere on RCU, so that I could remain neutral in any moderation that I needed to take, this was part of the problem with the old moderator in that he was moderating the forum to back his viewpoints. I vowed to never do that. And I will not do that ever. This is why I never have discussed AMA issues on RCU. You can go back through my posting all the way back to the time I took over the AMA forum and you will not find me ever posting anything about any AMA issue, EVER. Until now. I am posting now because of the importance of this issue and and how I feel about what is happening to us as a group as hobbyists. As far as how I feel about the AMA?? Well, I have been the President of an AMA sanctioned club for 9 years, but I just stepped down last month to take some time off. And as for the AMA forum, it is my goal that any thread posted that remain in the thread whenever possible because I believe that any topic about the AMA should be discussed. I have removed threads in the past yes, but only after I have done everything I can to keep it alive and going. I feel that anything dealing with the AMA is important and deserves to be discussed, that is why I took over the Forum and why I spend so much time keeping it running. I also have a very good relationship with the Executive Director at the AMA. This has come in handy many times when something comes up on RCU and I can call him and get the "poop" on what's really going on with what's being discussed. So I've always been very supportive of the AMA, so please do not try in any way to portray me as having been anti-AMA in the past. However, that doesn't mean that I don't feel that the AMA has supported us in this matter. I totally feel that the AMA has let us down and thrown us under the bus.

So, I hope this answers your questions about my neutrality, my feelings about the AMA, where I currently stand, and why I don't normally post things about the AMA.

Thank you for asking.

Ken
I didn't actually have any questions on any of those things, you asked two questions at the end of your comments and I answered. But I appreciate you clarifying nonetheless.
Old 12-18-2015, 03:13 PM
  #30  
EchoBravo
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Thumbs down Forbes Magazine article

From Forbes magazine online:


FAA Finally Admits Names And Home Addresses In Drone Registry Will Be Publicly Available







The FAA finally confirmed this afternoon that model aircraft registrants’ names and home addresses will be public. In an email message, the FAA stated: “Until the drone registry system is modified, the FAA will not release names and address. When the drone registry system is modified to permit public searches of registration numbers, names and addresses will be revealed through those searches.”


I’ve been trying to get to the bottom of whether names and home addresses of model aircraft or hobby drone owners – including children as young as 13 – will be made available by the FAA to the public once the FAA’s new unmanned aircraft registry goes live on Monday. It seems a simple enough question. But it took a while to get a straight answer.


My confusion arose because of an apparent contradiction that a colleague pointed out to me between what the FAA stated in its FAQs on the new registration rule and what the Department of Transportation stated in a legal filing made at the same time as the FAA’s new rule was published. The FAA’s FAQs made it appear that only the FAA, its contractor and law enforcement agencies would have access to the data. Here is the FAA’s FAQ:


Who can see the data that I can enter?
A. The FAA will be able to see the data that you enter. The FAA is using a contractor to maintain the website and database, and that contractor also will be able to see the data that you enter. Like the FAA, the contractor is required to comply with strict legal requirements to protect the confidentiality of the personal data you provide. Under certain circumstances, law enforcement officers might also be able to see the data.


This led me – and many others I’ve spoken with – to believe that only these three entities would have access to registrants’ personal information. But my colleague pointed out that the DOT’s filing contained the following statement, “all records maintained by the FAA in connection with aircraft registered are included in the Aircraft Registry and made available to the public, except email address and credit card information submitted under part 48 [the new model aircraft registry].” In addition, the DOT statement says the name and address of model aircraft owners will be searchable by registration number.






So, I emailed DOT’s public affairs office to ask if they could clarify what information from the newly announced UAS registry will be made publicly available. Specifically I asked: “Will a hobby registrant’s name and home address be publicly releasable? Will the public be able to search the hobby registry for owner names and addresses by registration number?” I thought these were easy questions requiring simple yes or no answers. But apparently they weren’t that simple so my questions were referred to the FAA. An FAA spokesman wrote back: “Initially the Registration system will not have a public search function. The FAA plans to incorporate a search by registration number in the future. Names and addresses are protected by the Privacy Act. The FAA will handle disclosure of such information in accordance with the December 15, 2015 Federal Register notice.”


Not considering this a clear answer, I replied, “my reading of the DOT policy is that if someone requests the name and address of a drone registrant the information will be released by the FAA. I don’t want to misstate what the FAA would do so I would appreciate your confirmation.”


The FAA responded that it would have the Chief Counsel’s Office again review my request. It seems the third time was a charm and I got an answer that may not make many hobbyists very happy.


Fortunately for hobby flyers, the Academy of Model Aeronautics announced to its members yesterday that it’s exploring all legal and political means to stop the registry. In the meanwhile, it’s asking its members to hold off registering. If you’re concerned about what data will be made publicly available, you might consider holding off registering to give the AMA a chance.
Old 12-18-2015, 03:17 PM
  #31  
porcia83
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
So what about the planes my loving wife is going to give me for Christmas? They have to be registered before the first flight.
If you are flying as a hobbyist, the short answer is no. As a hobbyist we register ourselves, and each plane will carry our registration number. The FAQ repeatedly mention "aircraft" but if you read the actual document it notes that for us, its the pilot. If I find that part of the rule I'll post here. Here are the FAQs though:

http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
Old 12-18-2015, 03:32 PM
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There are 185,000 members in the AMA, the Executive Council of the AMA has asked all of its members to hold off on registering with the FAA. As you all know the FAA has offered us a 30 day period starting 12/21 to get a full refund of this fee. If all AMA members waited till Feb 19th 2016 to register with the FAA it would amount to $925,000 which would not be refunded. If the AMA can't change the FAA new ruling would they be willing to refund all members this fee. I really wonder weather if the AMA is so sure they would win that they would be willing to risk $925,000 of their money, after all it's only five bucks of your money. LOL
Old 12-18-2015, 03:51 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by goldenage1 View Post
There are 185,000 members in the AMA, the Executive Council of the AMA has asked all of its members to hold off on registering with the FAA. As you all know the FAA has offered us a 30 day period starting 12/21 to get a full refund of this fee. If all AMA members waited till Feb 19th 2016 to register with the FAA it would amount to $925,000 which would not be refunded. If the AMA can't change the FAA new ruling would they be willing to refund all members this fee. I really wonder weather if the AMA is so sure they would win that they would be willing to risk $925,000 of their money, after all it's only five bucks of your money. LOL
I'm thinking the AMA isn't asking people to something that will cost them more money, the e-mail simply says sit tight and wait for some additional feedback. Nobody has mentioned yet that the pending matter before the court of appeals (filed back in Aug of 2014) was stalled until the FAA took the next step...which they just did 4 days ago. Perhaps now the AMA has some additional points to argue? Just spit balling there. I know it's not a popular sentiment, but perhaps waiting more than 4 days to see how the AMA is going to respond is reasonable? If I was a betting man I would say we'll have our answer by the end of next week. Plenty of time to register, and just enough time for the FAA systems to come back online after crashing the first few days.
Old 12-18-2015, 03:53 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by eaglen2fb View Post
The full text of the law clearly states that the information will be publicly available. However, note that if you are an AMA member, you are supposed to have your contact information in the plane.

Last edited by RC_Fanatic; 12-18-2015 at 03:56 PM.
Old 12-18-2015, 04:06 PM
  #35  
goldenage1
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AMA quote: "As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft. " Your guess is as good as mine when this might happen.
Old 12-18-2015, 04:29 PM
  #36  
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one quick question for all of you. What in God's green earth makes you think any part of our government can have a web up and running by Monday Dec. 21? My guess is by the time Michelle Obama calls her girl friend and pays her a trillion dollars to set up the registration web site, she and her hubby will be out of office.
Just asking????
Old 12-18-2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by perdo View Post
one quick question for all of you. What in God's green earth makes you think any part of our government can have a web up and running by Monday Dec. 21? My guess is by the time Michelle Obama calls her girl friend and pays her a trillion dollars to set up the registration web site, she and her hubby will be out of office.
Just asking????
Wishful Thinking!
Old 12-18-2015, 04:43 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
So what about the planes my loving wife is going to give me for Christmas? They have to be registered before the first flight.

That is what the FAA said and I do plan to go ahead register early but OTH I think flying something you got for Christmas will not be a problem as I think it's to early in the game for the FAA to try to prove when something was actually purchased.
Old 12-18-2015, 04:53 PM
  #39  
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I'd like to see political attacks left out of this discussion. Of all threads on the subject, this one is by far the most informative, and, until now, hasn't been dragged into the gutter.

The ruling effects all of us, no matter what out politics may be. I see no reason to bring this into our conversation. There are several threads that hhave already degenerated down that path. posting political statements in them will likely find sympathetic ears.

It would be nice if we could have at least one thread without this type of comments.

Just my opinion.
Old 12-18-2015, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ira d View Post
That is what the FAA said and I do plan to go ahead register early but OTH I think flying something you got for Christmas will not be a problem as I think it's to early in the game for the FAA to try to prove when something was actually purchased.
Remember that when dealing with the government, especially the bureaucracies, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
Old 12-18-2015, 05:49 PM
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perdo
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Not really, It took our corupt government 2 years to get a web site up to register for the Affordable care act and even then it didn't work.
Old 12-18-2015, 06:02 PM
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Should a AMA club require there members to be registered ?
Old 12-18-2015, 06:22 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by karl hibbs View Post
Should a AMA club require there members to be registered ?
I'd bet that your insurance will be invalid if you do not register. I know my homeowner policy will not cover me if I am doing something illegal.
Old 12-18-2015, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RC_Fanatic View Post
I'd bet that your insurance will be invalid if you do not register. I know my homeowner policy will not cover me if I am doing something illegal.
That's not actually correct, in many instances your coverage would apply, for both a legal defense and indemnity payment. It all depends on what happened, and what your intent was. As for the AMA, Tony Stillman has already indicated there is not AMA requirement that members have to register. If that was to happen, I wouldn't imagine seeing that for at least a year or two. Bylaws would have to be changed, as well as written contracts and policies with insurance carriers.
Old 12-18-2015, 06:51 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by perdo View Post
one quick question for all of you. What in God's green earth makes you think any part of our government can have a web up and running by Monday Dec. 21? My guess is by the time Michelle Obama calls her girl friend and pays her a trillion dollars to set up the registration web site, she and her hubby will be out of office.
Just asking????
The government won't be running the website (thank god). That task has already been outsourced and a vendor will be doing that. Fingers crossed it's a competent one.
Old 12-18-2015, 07:11 PM
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Ditch the spouse and keep the receipts! It worked for me and I have been flying happily ever since.I have every receipt for every part, just in case my basement hangar or car go up in smoke.
Old 12-18-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by goldenage1 View Post
AMA quote: "As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA's legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft. " Your guess is as good as mine when this might happen.
If I had to guess you'll be hearing about the AMA's next move in less than a week. Rest assured it will please some people, and totally tick off others.
Old 12-18-2015, 07:58 PM
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porcia83
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Originally Posted by trex600fbl View Post
Ditch the spouse and keep the receipts! It worked for me and I have been flying happily ever since.I have every receipt for every part, just in case my basement hangar or car go up in smoke.
Bet that cost you more than the sum total of those receipts!

Just has some friends go through that...not fun, and not cheap!

Last edited by porcia83; 12-18-2015 at 08:14 PM.
Old 12-18-2015, 08:31 PM
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FYI the govt wasn't running the health care web site either so.......
Old 12-18-2015, 08:42 PM
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porcia83
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hey...I didn't say it was good company they picked...ha! Still, fingers crossed that it's a simple task...one page to click on, fill a few lines in, hit a submit button, and get a number. Hope it's that simple. Meanwhile, some 20 year old wizkid programmer probably could have whipped up something in a week that would be just as easy.

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