P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I don't know if all kits are dying, but I know I killed one last weekend!

Goinstraightup

My Feedback: (26)

Good one P-51B!!! I saw an ARF die Sunday LOLOLOL.

Couch-pilot

I'm with Niagara Region Model Flying Club. If I can find the shirt, I'll copy the logo and print 'em.

I like your anti-arf logo - wonder if they'll sell? Wonder if they'll sell as kits?
Shirt + iron-on.

Wait...nah. Not pre-assembled...

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Wouldn't a shirt + iron-on be the ARF version?

Surely a kit would include thread to weave the shirt, some templates for silk screening, and some chemicals to make the ink from??

Jim_McIntyre

I think that would be a scratch-built.

I'm not trying to 'convince' anyone, I'm merely discussing my opinion (as I have often stated). Further, sometimes packaging the same information differently will reach a wider audience.

Taking the King analogy further, they were not required to get an education either, they simply hired advisors (ARF education?) .... leading to the current state of kingship ... or lack thereof.

Further, this is our entertainment, not our profession. Some enjoy making music (I play guitar & keyboards), others merely listen. Still others are 'DeeJays' who often refer to themselves as musicians (musician ARFers?).

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

Hmmm.

Reminds me of the man who had a farmer friend send him a sheep and a pair of knitting needls with the note, "Hope you like your sweater!"

bax

Live Wire

When kits die so will model aviation. The whole Idea of flight will be gone. Mans dream, Fly Like an Eagle, The miracle of flight.

Tenthumbs

Funny I see this thread here. Earlier today I was thinking to myself that I remember going out to the flying field out in Layton, Utah. Everyone would show up with their own kit built creations(early 90's).

That alone was part of the joy in the hobby, being able to see someone else's skill at building the aircraft. Everyone's was different, not like today, you can see those fakes(arfs) in the magazines, they all basically fly the same, some just faster than others.

Still, nothing beats the feeling of watching your "kit" built creation take flight. It's a beautiful thing thats hard to describe, unfortunately some may never experience. I guess we kit builders are just lucky in that we can actually put one of these together and enjoy every part of the hobby. As for everyone else, well, you can't knock 'em, at least they like the flying....

Manny P.

tdelaney

Good statement. Just about sums it up.
Half the fun is watching the plane take shape and trying to make it as good as possible. Always learning something new. Once in a while I build one that is so pretty I don't fly it. I just look at it and marvel that "I built it"..

It is the Builders that will take US to the Stars and beyond............................

NitroWoman

I'd really like to tell you what you can do with that T-shirt. I just happen to be a girl that can build a kit, build from plans, assemble an ARF(and have very little pride in it) and fly the dog poopy out of them all. I also repair my own radios, rework/rebuild my own engines, and mix my own fuel. Oh, by the way I can cook, keep a nice house, and earn all the money to pay for it all too. P.S. No offense taken, I just had to comment.

TorkRollN

My Feedback: (22)

Go here:
www.composite-arf.com

Look at what they have to offer.

Airplanes that are TRULY 90% complete!
All major consturction is done with alignment of flying surfaces done!
Planes are painted in the mold!

You get the plane, install control arms and linkages, glue in canopy, bolt in landing gear, install radio, install engine and FLY the BEST flying planes built in the WORLD!

For what you can buy these planes for I can't see why anyone would pay for a box of sticks and fiberglass and then deal with plastic covering, sand, build, paint, blah, blah, blah.
Unless of course Composite-ARF doesn't make what you want, then you have to build it your self. But they offer quite a few airplanes.

I truly believe this is the future!

I love to FLY!

Barry Finck
Grantville, PA

dionysusbacchus

My Feedback: (25)

Some like to fly, and some like to build, I don't buy ARF's. I can't see how anyone can get any satisfaction from flying one, must be very boring. At any rate flying an ARF will never give the same satisfaction that turning a "box of sticks" into a real flying machine will give.

There are some that can't build, I have taken cover many a time when one of these contraptions flew over (in the day before the proliferation of ARF's), in this case thank god for ARF's! Then you have those that need to work many hours a week and don't have time for those sweet things in life, like building a model from a box of sticks! If this is the future I see burn out for the ARF flyer, boredom. The prices are ridiculously low for ARF's! How long will the Chinese be happy with a bowl of rice in exchange for building an ARF? They might some day demand a decent wage, that is what I would like to see. An ARF that sells for $150 should sell for $550, that will stop this ARF garbage and bring back the kits!

This is what it's all about!

Couch-pilot

Sorry Nitrowoman - not meant as a derogatory comment, and I didn't print the shirt...

Cheers to you! My wife is capable of the same, except she still thinks these things are overpriced toys.

And where was a girl like you when I was young and single?????

r1morris

My Feedback: (1)

When the price of a plane reaches over 3 grand for the almost complete airframe less paint and the rest . Thats so far outa my Ballpark we ain't even playing the same game. Just shows there is a customer for whatever you want or can afford to do.
The fact that we all share the love of flying things keeps this hobby going. I don't need a kit or an almost ready airplane to fly. I've built aircraft from alot of differant materials and started with just pencil and paper. Where does that fit in your scheme of things?

Couch-pilot

Yep. Price is paramount - lets you buy more toys...

My last project was a scratch-built Goldberg Ultimate with a YS91AC. $69.00 in balsa and ply - $10.00 for cowl, wheel pants and canopy,$150.00 for NEW motor(another story) and $40.00 for covering.

$269.00 sans glue and fittings.

Kit retails for $299.00 up here - ouch...

I just recently aquired another machine shop and am tooled enough now to try the next pinnacle of scratch-building

-TURBINES!!!!!
(much evil laughter...)

-will let everyone know when the fires start...

nascarjoe

Before I opened my hobby shop, I investigated the matter extensively and gotten information straight from the source, meaning other industry members such as kit manufacturers. They tell me that yes indeed, kits are dying. They would much rather sell kits and so would distributors, so they could sell all of the assessories that go along with kit building. Thing is, kits were just not selling so they had to do something to stay in business, which was mostly importing ARFs from overseas, since they could make ARFs in the US to compete with those made in Taiwan.
Business 101.

In their market research, kit manufacturers discovered that the public is being inundated with such negative info from the old hand that crashing in the learning process is all but assured, so why would beginners spend months building a trainer that will most likely be rekitted ASAP? Keep in mind this is not my opinion but info I gathers from kit manufacturers themselves. If kits aren't selling, for whatever reason, and ARFs are....

nascarjoe

tdelaney

The way ARF prices are going, why not attend the EAA Oshkosh air show and buy yourself a real B-17 or one of the many Mustangs or P38s.
There you will see some serious "TOYS". Imagine having your own flying B-29! Or a real Mig 21 jet fighter and a shiny Mustang. There you will see what having "Money" really means!!

The EAA is a must see at least once in a lifetime for all aviation fans and modelers.
This is the air show of shows. The thunder of the racing Bearcats, mustangs, spitfires, and P38s is beyond description. Watch B-17s make real bomb runs and feel the heat from the bomb blasts. See little Patty Wagstaff fly the pants off any man alive. Lordy that little gal can fly. Ride a Ford Trimotor over the beautiful Lake Winnebago. See the most complete and beautiful aviation museum filled with real aviation history. It shames the Smithsonian.

warplaneinsane

and the above post has what to do with the subject of this forum?????????

Sport_Pilot

At that price why bother with a model? Three grand will buy a lot of hours on a full scale plane!

Jim_McIntyre

Now that's the spirit. :thumbup:

I'm beginning to outgrow my old unimat desktop lathe.

Jim_McIntyre

I fly full-scale.... when compared to the thrill I get from maidening a scratch-built classic bipe ... YAWN....

I'm just finishing the bottom wing on my Waco umf, probably months from maiden flight and I've already got the 'jangles'. I confess to running to the workshop before I leave for work in the morning just to get another peak at the building board... it get's worse the closer I get to completion.... Like an ARF would give me such a thrill.

dionysusbacchus

My Feedback: (25)

My brother is a full scale pilot and I have flown his plane... YAWN. Expensive and boring! Flying a model war bird that I built at my own miniature air show with all my friends....EXCITING!!

I would attribute the YAWN in this case to the types of planes you build and fly! BORING!

Forget about full scale aviation, it's a total waste of money, buy model kits! Save the kits!!!!!!!

Luke

Jim_McIntyre

To each their own, I certainly yawn when I see another warbird making YASRFBAVR (Yet Another Strafing Run Followed By A Victory Roll).

I routinely test fly warbirds for many friends and, other than speed, find them generally boring, they don't tumble well, won't sideslip very well, snap too easily and are generally unable to perform even simple aerobatics like a knife edge loop.

You may think biplanes/triplanes are boring but, try flying one some time.... you have to use both sticks and be very quick about it (especially on landing and T.O.).

Couch-pilot

Biplanes.... Ultimate.....Smoke.....MMmmmmmmm

Jim_McIntyre

Now you're talking!