Notices
Control Lines For all you fly-by-wire fanatics!

Monoline handle

Old 10-29-2005, 04:59 PM
  #1  
Phil Heller
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Monoline handle

Back in the late 40's and early 50's when I was flying speed, I recall seeing several flyers using a monoline handle that appeared to be geared and could be flown with one hand with the normal up/down wrist motion. Are these still available? - or were they home builts? Any info would be appreciated.

Phil Heller
Old 11-02-2005, 12:12 AM
  #2  
jetpack
My Feedback: (1)
 
jetpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hobart, IN
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

I have a couple of Berkeley Models Ducted Fan models from the '50's that show this control. Its called a Stanzel's monoline. A solid wire led to the model that turned a coil of wire which moved the elevator rod back and forth. Looks almost like a heavy clockspring, with the rudder wire riding inside it, like a spiral gear.
Old 11-06-2005, 02:35 AM
  #3  
50+AirYears
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Irmo, SC OH
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

More popular with the CL Speed flyers than any one else. I've heard rumors that someone may still be making systems once in a while. Sometimes one of thescale people would do an article in one of the mags showing two of the systems connected for elevator and throttle, or maybe something to give a two line system for carrier.
Old 11-06-2005, 09:54 AM
  #4  
Jim Thomerson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,086
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Monoline handle

I think George Aldrich showed me one of the handles like you mention. Also I have somewhere an Aeromodeller with instructions for making one. I think they were home builts and not very successful. When monoline first came out the FAI speed rules wouldn't allow the conventional monoline handle. This has since changed. Whether you can still get monoline stuff from Stanzel, I don't know. I'm sure if you go the a speed site you can find the conventional monoline stuff.

Joe Kirn flew a monoline Old Time Stunt airplane at the 2000 VSC and did very well.
Old 11-06-2005, 02:37 PM
  #5  
Phil Heller
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

Hi Jim,

I received several Emails and also some great pictures of geared handles from Bill Hughes. There was one made by Moki that looked like the one I remember seeing. Even had 2 spokes to fit in the pylon yoke. I remember seeing it in use at the 1960 Nationals. If you can find that Aeromodeller article I would appreciate a xerox copy and will reimburse any costs involved. Even though I am much involved with RC now, My first love was UC speed. ( doubt I could keep up around the pylon with one now, but with 8 grandsons and 5 granddaughters, maybe I could spark some interest!)

I was in the Air Force in the late '40s and early '50s with Dale Kirn. Dale was a big booster for Stanzel and his Monoline system and could do more with it in stunt than many could with 2 line systems. The Monoline units Stanzel sold that were used for speed had too many weak points and often failed the pull test or let loose in the air - not a good thing! This led to the home built development of more sturdy units.

Since you evidently knew George Aldrich, you must agree with me that he was a great guy and a real asset to model builders everywhere. He reworked and chromed many of my engines and always had time to lend a hand and answer any of my "dumb" questions. He is missed by many.

Phil
Old 11-06-2005, 07:25 PM
  #6  
gcb
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Port Ewen, NY
Posts: 3,440
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Monoline handle


ORIGINAL: jetpack

I have a couple of Berkeley Models Ducted Fan models from the '50's that show this control. Its called a Stanzel's monoline. A solid wire led to the model that turned a coil of wire which moved the elevator rod back and forth. Looks almost like a heavy clockspring, with the rudder wire riding inside it, like a spiral gear.
Jetpack,
That is very interesting. I remember the Berkeley Ducted Fan planes as being free flight. I did not know they adapted them to monoline. In addition to the general actuating unit you describe, they had one that was essentially a pin driven by a worm gear that was used for speed.

One of the problems of monoline use (if my observations are correct) is that the wire twists, in addition to turning. If you observe Dale or his son flying stunt with monoline, you will occasionally see them spin the button to re-center it in the middle of the control handle. It is quick and easy to adjust and is done during level flight, between maneuvers.
The handle in question here may not have means to re-center, assuming that is also necessary for speed flight.
Note these are merely observations, I have never flown monoline.

Oh, another point. The problem with using the early Stanzel handle with FAI speed, if I remember correctly, was that no part of a person could be in front of the pylon yoke. This was to prevent whipping.

George
Old 11-07-2005, 09:34 AM
  #7  
50+AirYears
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Irmo, SC OH
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

Funny, Just this weekend, I got the latest FM, and found an add for the latest reincarnation of the Victor Stanzel Company. The add not only had new kits for some of their 1940s CL kits, but there was even a mention of at least one version ot the Monoline unit.
MAN may still sell plans for one of Dale Kirn's stunters that was designed around a Monoline unit
Old 11-07-2005, 09:58 AM
  #8  
Jim Thomerson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,086
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Monoline handle

The Stanzel kits being offered are New Old Stock. They do have a good bit of monoline stuff on hand as well, again new old stock. The Stanzel Museum is well worth a visit. There are a good number of models, beautifully built by Dale Kirn for the exhibits. It is a small museum, but very well done. It is in Schulenburg, TX, a few blocks south of IH 10 on Hwy 77. The old factory is nearby, and part of it has been refurbished as a museum annex.
Old 11-07-2005, 10:19 AM
  #9  
50+AirYears
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Irmo, SC OH
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

Someday, if I ever get to retire, I hope to get to some of these sites and museums. I've been close to some of them on business travel, but things always seem to happen. Like being in Appleton, Wi. for 4 days on business, just about 20 minutes from Oshkosh, and spending 10 hour days on site and not being able to get there; A month in Northern Sweden, staying and working ten minutes from a Scandinavian Museum that closed for major overhaul two days before I got there and was scheduled to reopen the Monday after I left; living in Ohio all my life and only getting to Wright=Pat once; Three beautiful flying days on a job just 50 miles South of Muncie, and the morning I left the job site, haing a major two day rainstorm hit the area so all I could do was head home.

As in the words of the old Disney song, I owe, I owe, so off to work I go.
Old 11-08-2005, 12:58 PM
  #10  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

I happilly discovered the ad in MA a few days ago and of course made a bee line for the plastic and the phone. My Tiger Shark is on the way which I had always admired but somehow always did other airplanes. The nice lady on the phone confirmed as Jim Thomerson posted that all the kits are new old stock and there are no reproductions and that since that one ad they arm going rapidly.

Its my understanding which may be flawed that the Tiger Shark was the first Ukie kit and it is two line, apparently the monoline did not come along untill sometime in the fifties.

Ye Haw

John
Old 11-08-2005, 01:19 PM
  #11  
Jim Thomerson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,086
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Monoline handle

Stanzel had a couple of pre-monoline systems which I have never paid enough attention to to understand. The terms G-Line and Thumb-It come to mind. These are on exhibit and explained in exhibits at the museum, and I think units may still be available. These were attempts to compete with the Jim Walker system which at the time was patented. I've done a couple of Learn to Fly Control Line events with the Stanzel Museum. I've always felt a little odd about teaching the Jim Walker system under the aegis of Stanzel, but I haven't let that stop me.
Old 11-08-2005, 02:05 PM
  #12  
50+AirYears
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Irmo, SC OH
Posts: 1,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

I'm not sure these were all Stanzel, but in some old Air Trails and MAN, I've seen one system that hooked a single wire from the handle to a 90 degree bend off a torque rod driving to the elevator. Raising the handle tip fed in some up, lowering the handle tip fed in some down. Probably not very aerobatic, but at least you could probably trim for relatively level flight. Then there was the stanzel 2 line system, which I believe is available through the web sight, in which the two wires went through the tip guide, around a couple pulleys, and direct to the elevator. I believe I remember seeing one sytem in which one line was fixed to the airframe while the second line went to a spring loaded 90 degree bellcrank. Pulling on the line pulled against the spring and gave one direction of the elevator, while relaxing tension on that line allowed the spring to move the elevator the other way.

Walker didt it the best!
Old 11-24-2005, 01:18 PM
  #13  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

I thought I would come back after I received my Tiger Shark purchased from Stanzell after the Model Aviation ad.

I was amazed when the package arrived because there was not only the Tiger Shark but also a half A kit from the fifties or sixties included called the Lil' Raider. When the order was replaced the lady asked what I would like with the Tiger and it was a promotional item, not really understanding the option I just said surprise me. heck I was just thinking it was some candy or something!

Both kits are in perfect condition and more than complete. Plans particularly the Tiger are perfect but of course brittle with age. Not really knowing anything about Stanzell but heresay I found the Tiger Shark was intended to use the patented 'G line' system. Turns turns out this is a single line 50 to 60' that attachs to the airplane two inchs forward of the wing leading edge and run through a leading edge standoff. The flyer uses a nine foot bamboo pole to guide the airplane up or down. Both the elevator and the rudder are hinged and made adjustable through a friction slider at the trailing edge.

The Lil' Raider uses the later patented monoline system. The hardware for this is of course not included. I neglected to ask if the hardware was still avalible but will definately try as I would love to try it that way and am definately considering the G line setup for the Tiger. I love exploring everything I missed.

John

Neglected to mention the Tiger included two cool glass jars of Dope and Cement both pertrofied of course.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ge95734.jpg
Views:	192
Size:	45.7 KB
ID:	359699   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xt60100.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	359700   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rw58307.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	43.7 KB
ID:	359701   Click image for larger version

Name:	Fz74680.jpg
Views:	145
Size:	38.0 KB
ID:	359702  
Old 11-24-2005, 01:26 PM
  #14  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

More:
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Vt56810.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	40.8 KB
ID:	359706   Click image for larger version

Name:	Oj27098.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	42.4 KB
ID:	359707   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ag91027.jpg
Views:	223
Size:	84.2 KB
ID:	359708  
Old 11-26-2005, 12:33 AM
  #15  
mathison205
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: las vegas, NV
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

monoline is alive and well in the desert line need not be tight to still have control
Old 01-08-2013, 10:34 AM
  #16  
chuckstarck
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Canon City, CO
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

I have the 'plane' side monoline control, the little spiral gear and the bellcrank in what appears to be stainless material, even if it looks brassy in the photo, it's very very shiny plated or stainless. Very clean. It needs a new owner.

Make an offer...
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ge96303.jpg
Views:	299
Size:	84.0 KB
ID:	1838209  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:26 PM
  #17  
dennis
My Feedback: (90)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Minersville, PA
Posts: 1,872
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Monoline handle

That is the speed unit. can't tell what class from the picture.

Dennis
Old 01-08-2013, 04:26 PM
  #18  
aspeed
 
aspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ruthven, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

I don't think anyone makes the geared handle type, or the thimble type handles anymore.  I think the geared type only worked on fairly heavy models.  I have a thimble type, but don't think it is strong enough for much bigger than a .15.  I thought of making a handle, but it is way too much trouble to make just one, and no one flies it any more except the few remaining speed guys.  I would be surprised to see one do any stunts.  Maybe a pistol grip transmitter on monoline will be the new monoline.
Old 01-08-2013, 04:38 PM
  #19  
chuckstarck
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Canon City, CO
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Monoline handle

The long stick is about 6" if that will help. Know anyone that needs this sort of piece?
Old 06-28-2014, 10:28 PM
  #20  
jetpack
My Feedback: (1)
 
jetpack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hobart, IN
Posts: 2,477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I need the 1/2 clockspring/spiral type.



Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.JPG
Views:	766
Size:	76.5 KB
ID:	2009698  
Old 07-01-2014, 06:43 AM
  #21  
coriolan
 
coriolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 885
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Modern monoline handle
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Nightingale_Handle_2.jpg
Views:	623
Size:	63.5 KB
ID:	2010354  
Old 07-01-2014, 07:09 AM
  #22  
aspeed
 
aspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ruthven, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

I heard they were only good for larger models. Looks like it would be hard to use in the forks with the pivot so far behind. Nice machining, a bit of engineering there. Is Nightingale still around? I think an electric one may be the next hurdle. Like a servo at the handle with no transmitter?
Old 07-11-2014, 05:27 PM
  #23  
ggeezer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatoon, SK, CANADA
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

JohnBuckner (post 11-24-2005), if you are still online, did you ever finish and fly your Tiger Shark?
I too have a Tiger Shark kit along with a recently Ebayed Brown Junior ignition engine like shown on the plans. I intend on building it as shown but I will build in two control systems. One will be the original G-line and I will also install the later Thumb-It and Control-it Stanzel system. If I don't destroy the plane trying the first, I will then use the second. Should be a good experience.

I have never handled the later Monoline system and have a question for chuckstrak about the plane unit. Does the control unit use an encased torque rod to cause the unit to go back to neutral when the twist on the line is reduced?

Orv.
Old 09-01-2014, 09:17 AM
  #24  
V1jet
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Perth Western Australia, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Do you still have any.I want it.Cheers Chriss
Old 09-01-2014, 11:26 AM
  #25  
Lou Crane
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

ggeezer,

I never successfully flew mono-line using the basic, long-twisted wire pair and slide button setup. I have since come across both types of Stanzel actuators that mount in the models.

As in the illustrations above in this thread, both feature an aluminum tube with a thimble or grommet at the end away from the cam. The tube encloses, most likely, a length of braided cable from the line-attach ‘thimble’ to the mounting plate. That forms a twist spring, and yes, it does return to ‘neutral’ when control input torque is relaxed.

The ‘clockwork spring’ type isn’t. The coil doesn’t tighten or loosen. It is a spiral cam. A fork rides the coil to actuate the pushrod.

The more compact type, much stronger and incidentally more compact, is a drum cam. A spiral groove is cut into its cylindrical surface, to fit a pin on a simple crank that operates the pushrod. RC carbs use the same type cam action to shift the barrel sideways to compensate the mixture setting for different throttle positions.

Neither mono-line cam bears any pull load, just pushrod loads. Pull is carried from the flying line attached to the ‘thimble’, through the neutral-return twist spring, to the mounting plate.

AMA Rulebook, CL Basic section has good info on the standard for (solid) flying line wire, for making line ends, and for safety-wiring them.
Solid wire only - it's the only wire, and solid transmits torque better

Flying mono-line is very different from standard 2-line CL. There is NO physical control feedback! You have to set the control position – neutral or whatever path you want – by eye, and likely will need constant correction except, possibly, at neutral.

I saw Joe Kirn’s VSC demo that Jim T mentioned. Also saw Dale Kirn’s mono-line stunt demo at VSC 1, the only VSC in California, in about 1989. Both were virtuoso performances!

Also saw Dale demo mono-line at a long ago Nats. Spooky! Part of the time the lines were lying on the ground, but full control was maintained. (That’s not enough for me to switch, though. I’ve learned how to keep 2-line models out at the end of the lines… most of the time.)

Last edited by Lou Crane; 09-01-2014 at 11:36 AM.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.