colingw

My comments about bigger props - 9.5x6, etc. where specific to the model 4004 19-IV.

The later .19s - model 4005 19-V and model 4006 19-VI are timed differently and are better off propped smaller - 9x4 or so seems to be ideal.

For comparison, my model 4004 19-IV manages around 11,500 on a Taipan 9x4, where my model 4005 19-V happily reaches 12,000 or more. Put a 9.5x6 Bolly Clubman on, and the 19-IV digs in and does 10,500 - 10,600, whereas the newer 19-V dies can't even do 10,000. Furthermore, on the big prop, the older 19-IV becomes far less "cranky", where on the 9x4 it is quite snappy. I tried it on an 8.5x4 and it was just plain evil.

cheers,
Colin

Ram Jet

Assuming the amount of work he put into it the builder must have been heartbroken. My hat is off to the builder attempting such a project in post war Japan. No balsa, no CA glue, no Ambroid scarce methanol, no nitro and darn little castor oil. How about 1.5 volt dry cell batteries - possibly ignition engines? I think the builder deserves a large pat on the back. He certainly would have been ahead if he had access to relatively light Philippine Mahogany. He has my admiration.

Bill

Ram Jet

Thank you Colin I'll launch my first aircraft (probably a Brodak Super Clown or Li'l Thunderbird?) with a 9 x 4 prop. I was wondering what to use after breaking-in my VI 4006. You've saved me a-lot of time, money and experimentation.

Regards,
Bill

colingw

Bill,

To me, a lightly built Super Clown, at 355 square inches, looks ideal. Thats around the same size as the plane we were flying with a model 4005 19-V and black Taipan 9x4 prop. We were flying on 60' x .012 lines, and it was just right.

cheers,
Colin

steve111

To clarify a bit, the model Col and I were flying was actually about 320 sq.in., 40" span, and 18 oz. No flaps, but with such a low wing loading it was plenty manoeuvrable. On a 9x4 the 19-V had plenty of thrust but flew it quite slowly - lots of fun, although more speed would've been handy in the gusty conditions. I would've liked to try an 8.5x6 or 8x6, but unfortunately allowed the model to destroy itself, while waiting a bit too casually for line tension to return after a strong gust...

As Col says, a light 355 sq.in model should fly fine with a 19-VI.

Ram Jet

Thanks for the affirmation on the Super Clown. Brodak recommends a .19 to .35 engine. I figure the little Enya .19 ought to fly slow enuough to accomodate a 61 year old's reflexes who is reentering the hobby after many years. In addition, my dad had a powder blue Clown hanging in his garage for most of my life. Although a profile fuselage is not my cup of tea it certainly would be a nostalgia purchase for me. I don't know what engine powered his Clown. He built it in the early 50s, perhaps a Fox .35? 60' lines of .012 gage. Another question answered. I think I'll need to find a local flying club to locate a 120' open circle. My new Enya SS.40BB is going into a Brodak Oriental. I think I'll need to lock the ailerons in the neutral position until I attain a decent comfort level with this ship.

Thanks again for your valued advice. I think I'll check out the AMA website tonight and see if I can locate a local flying field here in Mid-Michigan.

Regards,
Bill

Ram Jet

Thank you Steve, sorry for your loss. Heck, you can buy an ARF for probably less than you can build. You might try SS Hobbies.com here in Missouri. It's run by a nice guy named Joe who's owned the shop for many years. I had a long talk with him a few days ago and he's holding a spun aluminum tuned pipe for my Enya .09 for me until I get paid on the 26th. I offered him my phone # and E-mail address but he didn't take it. He said he would just hold it aside for me and wrote my name on it. He's a laid back country sort of fellow and specializes in control line aircraft. I learned of his shop through an RCU member. I will probably buy my Brodak Oriental from him depending on how the tuned pipe deal goes down.

Thanks again. Fellas like you on the RCU website are helping me ease back into a hobby I used to love. Will again, I'm sure, if I don't "lawn dart" my aircraft.

Regards,
Bill

steve111

Don't be too sorry, Bill, this was a pretty rough-looking model! It was built and finished as quickly as possibly, had various minor repairs painted in matt-black, non-fuelproof paint which kept rubbing off on everything, had crude ply doublers on the fuselage following a previous minor mishap, and at the time of its demise had a 'Fragile' sticker covering a hole in the wing tissue - this caused by Colin's seemingly irresistable urge to poke holes in the thing . Its life was always going to be short but fun. It might've been repairable but for the fact I went out of my way to build it as light as possible. As you say, ARFs are good and cheap, but I really enjoy designing and building them myself.

What are you going to do with an Enya 09 and a tuned pipe?! I've just acquired a new 09-IV (CL) - will probably knock up some sort of miniature Nobler-shaped thing for it once it's run-in.

Ram Jet

You asked for it.

Well Steve, it seems to me that there are two types of persons in this hobby. Those that want to fly first and build second. those like me who get all caught-up in producing museum quality aircraft and tinker with engines and are too chicken to pile-up their masterpiece. I think the first type have more fun. I have plans for a flat wing all balsa sheet P-51-like 1/2 A profile that you could build in about 3 hours for about $20.00, head to the field with some CA or super glue and 5 minute epoxy and have a ball. I almost built it until disdain grew to such an extent for the Cox .049 that I scrapped the whole idea. My Cox collection now amounts to a 1959 Curtiss Pusher and a pretty little Extra300S neither of which will fly any higher than the thread they are suspended by hanging from my ceiling. Then this cat named Bob Allan of Supercool Racing Propellers got the sweat running down the back of my legs over Enyas. Fourty five days later I own 4 Enyas - .09, 2-.19s, and a SS.40BB. Mr. Allan saved a Styrofoam winged plastic Cox Hyper Viper from the trash bin. This is the .09's new home. It's a shoehorn fit for sure. It will be mounted inverted on a firewall beefed-up with 1/4" plywood reinforced with 60 minute Locktite epoxy. A new balsa and basswood Monocoat covered wing is in process. I stole the design on a "free plan" site somewhere on the web (see attachment). Through the magic of my H.P. printer and Microsoft I fiddled around and made a full scale working plan that I'm building on now. I tried to send you an attachment. I simply cut out a carboard template of the wing inletting on the Hyper Viper fuselage and scaled with reduction/enlargement from there. The original Hyper Viper had a 27.5" wing with a 20" fuselage. I will end up with a fuselage to wingspan ratio close to that of a Brodak Oriental. The new wing will be 33". By the time I'm done with this little nightmare I'll have more money into it than the out the door price of a new Brodak ARF Oriental. A $15.00 Brodak polished aluminum spinner no less. I think a polished aluminum or chrome spinner is a must on an areobatic aircraft. The leadout wires will be built into the wing along with the bellcrank. The Cox version has the leadouts lying on top of the wing. The holes in the fuselage accomodating the .049 and the bellcrank will be covered by Hobby Lobby aileron pushrod covers reversed to act as air scoops. Golly, I hope it flys. If not it can join it's friends on display hanging from my ceiling. Don't you think a sane man would have crapped-out by now? Oh yeah, the tuned pipe should look pretty cool also. I have read here where the .09 has a very loud and ratty exhaust note. I'm hoping the tuned pipe with tame it a-bit. I don't think it will require more power. Do you think I'll have to add weight to the tail? Dumb question. I'll probably have to tape a silver dollar to the right wingtip.

Hence - "Nobody ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the American people." "There are two things that are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity - and sometimes I wonder about the former" - Albert Einstein.

Best regards,
Bill

Ram Jet

Shoot, I forgot to tell you about a possible ship for your .19. Go to eBay U.K. and search "Mercury Marlin" and you should come up with an offer for plans. It's a beautiful little plane. Sort of a cross between an Extra300S and a Super Marine Spitfire. It looks to be an easy build. The plan notes are as follows, "Designed by Dennis Allen - 1959, Mercury Model Aircraft Supplies LTD.(London or Loudon N T ?)

Worth a look.

Regards,

Bill

colingw

How many times did I poke holes in it? Must have been at least 3.

It lives on anyway, in the form of "Goldfinger" - an 8.5oz Norvel .061 powered stunter that is a scaled down version of Steve's design.

colingw

Bill,

I hear you loud & clear. I've not been back in the hobby that long myself, but have been busily setting about getting the Enyas that I really wanted when I was at school.

To date I have bought:

1 x 09-III
2 x 19-IV
1 x 19-V
2 x 29-IV (one NIB from Enya)
1 x 35-III (NIB)
1 x 45BB (NIB)
1 x 45S-M (NIB)

The thing is , I still want more, would eventually like at least one current production Enya diesel (probably the 25), an 06D-II, a 15-V or SS15S, a SS30S, and a 60-IIIB

For the time being I'm behaving, probably because if one more box with an Enya in it turns up my wife will shoot me!

It also appears that Steve may have caught the Enya disease. Probably contracted while repairing a hole in his wing.

cheers,
Colin

Ram Jet

Maybe you should cover your aircraft with 1/64" carbon fiber sheet. Hey, I meant that as a joke but wouldn't that make one heck of a strong and light wing? Hmmm . . . now could I afford it? It's midnight here and I'm getting silly. Off to bed, I have to get up at 3 AM.

Bill

Ram Jet

Yeah, I want an Enya 4 cycle - bad. I don't care what the displacement is. I do not want the one with exposed rocker arms - Gawd! I probably won't fly it, just take it apart and play with it on a test stand. I'm still in disbielief that a four cycle can be made at this scale - with no freakin' oil sump yet!

Bill

74SEVEN7

Just harking back to the aforementioned "iffy" starting of the Enya 19-IV, it might interest you guys to learn that this was first described
40 years ago by Peter Chinn, both in his July 1968 Engine Review for MAN, and also his Jan. 1969 Engine Test for Aero Modeller (see
attachment). I do have a theory why the 19-IV might have been slightly less than perfect in the starting department ; anyone who knows anything about Enya's will be aware that they can be made to run in reverse, simply by unbolting the front housing and rotating
it 90 degrees, so the intake is on the starboard side looking from the rear. In the 19-IV, the intake timing is (deliberately ?) arranged
so that it is exactly 45 deg. ABDC to 45 deg. ATDC, regardless of whether the venturi is vertical or sticking out the R.H. side. Compare
this to the following 19-V BB which has intake timing of 49 deg. ABDC to 50 deg. ATDC, and we might conclude that Saburo Enya compromised the easy starting, for an engine which would run equally well in either direction. BOB

colingw

Bob,

That described behaviour on restarting agrees with my experimentation with the engine.

The trick, which I have found to be effective for hot restarting of both the 19-IV and 19-V, is either a healthy exhaust prime or choking/venturi priming to the point of flooding, then applying back flips.

My 19-V in particular seems to be easy to start by grasping the prop near the hub between thumb & forefinger, and applying a sharp backward flick. When treated in this manner, it will often cough, bounce of compression, spit a couple of puffs of smoke then slowly spool up in a nice miniature emulation of a WW-II radial engine starting. Fun!

Steve was present for a couple of these style starts when we were flying the 19-V in his black plane.

cheers,
Colin

74SEVEN7

Colin, if there is one thing I've learnt from my (admittedly far from comprehensive) study of the internal combustion engine, its that sometimes things happen for which there is no rational or scientific explanation. Sometimes, a design (like the FOX 35 for instance) is
just about perfect from day 1, whereas another engine (such as the fabled OS Max 15 Diesel), which is designed from the ground up to be a world-beater, will flop badly for no apparent reason. Most Enya's will work OK in the reverse mode, yet still be an easy starter, but the 19-IV seems to trip up slightly. Why ? Who knows ? When I was looking for an Enya 40 Model 6001 which could be easily hand started (remembering my experience with the Dykes ringed McCoy 40 Series 21), I closely examined 4 brand new engines until I found one with enough "slow turning" compression that would allow hand starting. Another example is PAW Diesels - when you have a dozen or so 15's and 19's, you discover that less than half of them have, what you would call, a great piston / cylinder fit. The wild card is - the ones that "feel" great when un-run, may well turn out to be not as good as the ones that you would reject ! In other words, there are variations within a particular model of a model engine which defy logic. Remember too, we are just talking about simple, basic single cylinder engines here - imagine the complexity and multiplied problems of trying to de-bug a H24 Napier Sabre engine, as used in the WW 2 Hawker Typhoon ! I consider that Enya engines have the finest piston / cylinder fit (the single most important thing for un-ringed 2 stroke engines) to be found in model engines, and second only to COX in consistency - that means that
the very best Enya fit is better than COX, but the COX doesn't vary much whereas I have found Enya has 3 grades : 1) Average (meaning 9 out of 10), Below Average (meaning 8 out of 10), and Above Average (meaning 10 out of 10) BOB

Luna_Rendezvous

Hmm... my new Enya SS30 has a suspect piston to liner fit, It doesn't hold compression very well at all, you can even turn it over with just your thumb and index finger, not by grasping the prop drive hub but the propeller nut ? Cold starting by hand can be tricky, cold starting with the muffler is impossible without electrics [] when it's running, it seems strong though ~ turns a APC 9x6 @ 12500 rpm on 10% nitro and a APC 10x5 @ 11200 rpm (with muffler)

steve111

Hi Bill,


I'm probably not the right person to ask that question of. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] I certainly wouldn't have crapped-out by now - curiosity and brainless optimism win out every time...



I guess I'm about to find out. I just got a nice little tongue muffler (Aero Products AP-9) for my Enya SS15S - turns out it fits the 09-IV as well, so there's another option for you if the tuned pipe thing doesn't work out. I have no idea yet whether it actually reduces noise or just looks good.

All the best with your Hyper Viper project - and yes, the Mercury Marlin is a fantastic-looking thing and I probably need to make one.

Cheers
Steve

Ram Jet

Thanks for the tip on the AP-9 muffler. I'll let you know how the "tuned pipe" thing goes. If nothing else it should look racy.

Bill

74SEVEN7

In reply to Luna Rendezvous - I should have specified that I handle (almost exclusively) the older Enya's, from the period 1950 through
to about 1980. We call them the "classic" Enya's ie. they are not Schnuerle ported, and most have plain iron pistons. Incidentally, I made a small error above when I referred to the Enya 40 being a Model 6001. It is, of course, a Model 6002. With regard to your Enya
30, read this article on "piston growing" - http://www3.telus.net/dieselcombat/about_diesels.htm
I have dabbled in this area a bit, and have had a little success, but I offer no guarantees ! This subject has also been covered extensively on other forums, and it may just improve your 30. BOB

lukesp

I have dealt with Joe at SS hobbies quite a few times. Honest man and very good to deal with, plus he always throws in little extras with whatever you buy from him. And he ships quickly too, I live in Australia and have had no issues whatever.

lukesp

Was it like this from new? I recently bought an SS30S from Ebay that hadn't yet been broken in, had about four bench runs on it according to the previous owner. The compression is excellent.

Luna_Rendezvous

Hi Bob,

I'm familiar with the website you linked to, and in fact use their run-in procedure for all my ferrous piston cylinder engines. (I have way too many Cox 049s) This 30 of mine has had approximately 4 liters of fuel through it, and have noticed no improvement in compression, but still seems to produce decent horse power, if it were easier to hand start then I wouldn't worry about it at all. Might contact Ken Enya and hear his thoughts on it.


Hi Luke,

I bought it new from Enya direct and had weak compression staight out of the box, so I still have warranty claim on it, would be interested to hear what sort of performance you’re getting from yours, if you have finished breaking it in.


Regards,
Mike.

colingw

Hi All,

Mike's SS30S has the weakest / most leaky compression I've ever felt in a glow engine in the .25 - .40 range. Even my Fox and McCoy .35s are better. Hand starting, without a muffler, seems possible, but for muffled operation it is much easier to just use his starter. Nothing wrong with it when its running 'though. I'd be interested in some comparisons with another SS30 'though. Luke - do you have any figures for yours yet?

Bob - I know what you mean about variability in engines and what feels like the good one not necessarily being the best runner. Case in point - my two OS MAX-S .35s. One of them I have had since it was NIB, broken in carefully on all castor fuel. Great compression. The other is a C/L conversion of an R/C one from eBay. Unknown history, maybe some running on synthetic. Doesn't feel nearly as nice to turn over. In practice when I put them on the bench they are both 2nd flick starters, and I can't separate them by 50rpm with my tacho when running on the same plug & fuel.

Another example was my CS Olly. Steve and I both bought Olly clones on eBay recently. His felt GREAT from the beginning. Mine felt like a piece of utter junk. We ended up having both of them "seen to" by David Owen. Turns out that mine is the stronger runner!

None of this seems to apply to older Enyas as a rule. I have a range of them (including some of the recent "vintage" builds Ken Enya put out), and all of them have fits & compression that are extraordinary. The only better fitted engine in my collection is an early '60s Cox TD .049 which gave me the absolute pips getting it to run the first time.

cheers,
Colin