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Need Advice

Old 12-14-2008, 02:35 AM
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Default Need Advice

I'm returning to this sport after 45 years absence. My pervious experience was flying the Leroy Cox plastic bricks. I say go big or stay home so my girlfriend is getting me a Brodak Oriental ARF for Xmas. I have a chioce of engines. Either an Enya SS.40BB or an Enya .46 4C. You can see from my experience that I need to proceed with caution. I'm keeping the R/C carbs so I can run the engines at whatever throttle setting I'm initially comfortable with. This aircraft also has ailerons. My thought would be to initially lock the ailerons in the neutral position and connect them properly later.

Am I on the right track with the ailerons and which engine should I start with? I have stong affection for four cycles.

Regards,
Bill
Old 12-14-2008, 06:25 AM
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Default RE: Need Advice

The Oriental is a decent stunter. It will fly with either motor, but my choice would be whichever is lighter. And that'd probably be the 2cycle. You've got a better chance locating the CG where it's needed with an engine that's closer to the weight of our originals. And back then, we didn't have carbs on 'em and if anyone was flying 4cycle (with it's appreciably heavier baggage) I never saw it. The 4cycle will have less power but that's not the point. Balancing the plane is the point.

As for ailerons..... They're actually flaps that work both directions. No big deal what they're called, but might as well lessen confusion when communicating. There really isn't a strong need to lock them in neutral. CL handles with adjustable spacing can do what you seem to want. On the other hand, if the instructions show suggested rigging for elevator only, your idea has a better chance of working well from the gitgo. And if the plans don't show any rigging for either setup, either way has equal chance. Just keep in mind that it's better to keep your handle line separation wider than narrower, and the same for all your planes, so rigging the plane takes precedence over re-rigging the handle.

It's a good flying plane and ought to work well.
Old 12-14-2008, 09:25 AM
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Default RE: Need Advice

If you are getting the ARF, the flaps will already be hooked up. There is no need to try
and disconnect them - which would be a pain. It will be more important that the model
balance where the instructions say, and as already noted, that will be easier with the
2cycle. Good luck with it.
Old 12-14-2008, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Thank you very much. The four cycle may have been a-bit of a challange to mount properly anyway. The .40 is brand new and it looks to be a fairly "hot" engine as it has three transfer ports - I can surely grow into it. I was recently done a very good customer service turn by the folks at Great Planes, so I guess I'll just break down and buy thier C.G. tool.

Keep the flaps? I'm really scared.

Again, thanks and happy holidays.

Bill
Old 12-14-2008, 12:21 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Thank you, Fortunately I have purchased a Sullivan Insta-Just No. 2 control handle. I'll place the lines in the outer guides and maybe I'll have a fighting chance. I know, fly with my elbow not my wrist. [X(]

Bill
Old 12-14-2008, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

If your CG is in the right place, you only need about 20 degrees of throw each way in both elevator and flaps. (I generally go 25 just to have a little margin) I would start out with the handle line spacing to give you that much throw with comfortable hand movement. Widen or lessen the spacing, if needs be, as you become more accustomed to the airplane.
Old 12-14-2008, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Thanks for the tip on elevator and aileron deflection. I'll see what the Brodak kit was set up for and adjust accordingly. My first few flights will pretty much be level flight. If I can get through a couple of tanks of fuel that way I'll get more adventuresome thereafter. I will not risk the Oriental as a trainer. I have an .09 contraption that I will be teething on.

Thanks again,
Bill
Old 12-14-2008, 09:26 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Definitely have the flaps connected because they only really come into play when you start trying hard turns, in level flight or even loops they don't do much at all but at least you'll have them there and ready for use later . Maybe with an ARF the controls are already set and there's not much you could do with them anyway. If so then your only adjustment for sensitivity is at the handle with line spacing in which case to reduce sensitivity you'll need the lines fairly close together, the outer spacing is the most sensitive. One tip though before you fly is to hold the handle as you would when you're flying (where it feels most comfortable for neutral) with your arm pointing at the model and have a helper check that the elevators are dead neutral. If not then adjust the length of one line until you get a consistent neutral. This will help avoid an uncomfortable first flight where you find you're having to hold a slight up or down to get the model flying level.
Old 12-14-2008, 10:01 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Solid advice on the control handle. Your point about the flaps agree with another member and I'm glad to know they are not lilely to cause me to overcontrol - something I know all about first hand and will watch for. Elbow , not wrist to start off. I know a guy who can answer his cell phone while doing loops and lazy eights with a 1/2A. I'm sure not there yet.

Thanks,
Bill
Old 12-17-2008, 12:46 AM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Some other tips. You can basically set your models altitude by keeping a straight stiff arm Basically by raising or lowering your arm you can raise or lower the planes altitude. You are correct about the wrist action. This will come into play when pulling hard maneuvers.
Practice not getting dizzy, this can be done by focusing on a single spot on the ground in front of you and then as you turn around, move to another spot. This spot will be a few feet in front of you. It is no problem flying without looking at your plane. At least after you have the stiff arm thing down. Getting dizzy may not be a problem for you, but it is not good to watch the world wizz by your airplane in the distance.
You will also want you engine running full power. I would not try to adjust the throttle setting on your RC carb. Choose the right prop, probably around an 11-4, 11-5. Speed will not be an issue with this setup. Maybe around 50-60 mph.
Have fun. You will have a very good flying plane I believe.
Old 12-17-2008, 04:09 AM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Thanks VG. I know that dancers and figure skaters try to focus on a single point with every revolution which would be sort of dumb if you want to view the flying attitude of your aircraft. I think I get what you mean in that my periferal vision will kick in and I may not be looking directly at my aircraft but I'll know it's flying attitude regardless. Well OK with the throttle thing. By the time I get my new Enya .09 broken in and flown a few laps I will the break in my Enya SS.40BB for the Oriental and fly that. I'd rather smack-up my .09 than my .40 and Oriental. Besides the .09's Aluminum Brodak spinner is only $15.00 the .40's is $23.00. My break-in prop is a rather lite 10 x 5 initially. I might even try to fly with the 10 x 5. I think your recommendation of an 11 x 5/6 is a good one. I suspect the .40 will be a somewhat "hot" engine in that it has three transfer ports and is schnerle scavanged. I can't wait to fire it up on it's test stand. I know my neighbors are anxiously awaiting having the exhaust noise bounce off the sides of their house.

By the way I will not place the control lines on the outer holes of my handle as I stated before - I meant inner holes.

Thanks again VG and have a merry.

Bill
Old 12-18-2008, 02:30 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Hey RamJet, let us know how it goes. If you run into any problems I am sure you can get plenty of help here. I have been flying CL for a long time and still fly modern combat ships. CL can be tough mainly because of a lack of info. With the right advice though you can avoid pitfalls and have a great time.
Be sure to use a uniflow vented tank.
Old 12-18-2008, 09:12 PM
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Default RE: Need Advice

ORIGINAL: Ram Jet
I will the break in my Enya SS.40BB
Just a tip in case you're not aware of it but the 40 has an iron piston so run it in slowly and carefully preferably with 25% all castor or at least a fuel with a healthy dose of castor in it. Enyas with cast iron pistons never seem to wear out if they're treated properly .
Old 12-19-2008, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Need Advice

Bill,

Most older Enyas need a lot of break-in, many newer ones do not. Some you can just run it a little rich and fly (as the instructions say).

If they are tight, the quickest and easiest way to break in both the Enya .09 and the .40 (assuming both are iron pistons in steel cylinder) is to run for short (~1-2 minute) periods with complete cool down between runs. Each run is considered a heat cycle. Starting rich, every other run lean it out a couple of clicks. As long as it doesn't overheat, continue. If it overheats, richen a couple of clicks and continue. When you reach maximum RPM, try to run out a full tank of fuel. If it holds a steady setting it is broken-in.

Stunt flaps move in the opposite direction of the elevator. Their purpose is to produce extra wing lift, both right side up and inverted. By producing additional wing lift, the maneuvers become tighter. This is especially effective in the square and triangular maneuvers. They have absolutely no connection with aileron function.

Hope this helps a little.

George



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