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Struggling with single rotor basics V2

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Old 03-19-2011, 11:49 AM
  #6276  
dunkonu23
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: baurwin


ORIGINAL: dunkonu23

Good going, Eddie! Perfect!

How have you been, sir?

Scott
goin pretty good. just workin. no rc things to report. still gotta send the tx off to get fixed.
How's the smoker working? I'm still envious! I need one of those!

Scott
Old 03-19-2011, 12:00 PM
  #6277  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: clp.eng

Scott - thanks! That does make sense now. The stuff I read on the other forums did not! You're into some heavy stuff over there!

Hey, Eddie! I got really close to a decent baurwin 8 with the mSR the other day. I'll get it one day!

max - in that 1st vid I kept waiting for you to step on your new camera which is very nice quality vid BTW! I see what you mean about more control. That was amazing what you were doing with that quad!

I've got the mCP X in the basket but haven't pulled the trigger yet!

The Guru is about 50% repaired. I had a heck of a time getting the sheared pin out again. There has to be a better way to hold the head to the shaft!

If the wind dies down a little I might just have to take the EXI450 out & spool it up to see if my PM didn't screw up anything!

Chuck
Idunno... it's beyond me what's happening. Ilove to tweak on things, but at some point, I guess I just want them to work. Fly, tweak, Fly tweak, charge, repeat.

Pull the trigger. Pull the trigger... PULL the trigger... PULLTHETRIGGER!! You can feel it!

Scott
Old 03-19-2011, 03:44 PM
  #6278  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

I have been flying for around 6 years fixed wing , I now have a trex 600 hope to learn to fly starting with g 5.5 real flight, anyone have any tips!!!!!



Old 03-19-2011, 04:17 PM
  #6279  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: EMAN_74

I have been flying for around 6 years fixed wing , I now have a trex 600 hope to learn to fly starting with g 5.5 real flight, anyone have any tips!!!!!



Hey EMAN! Welcome to the collective. My advice is to listen to what Ivan says. Seriously. Stick time, be it planes or helis. Ivan has translated everything into helicopters. He's doing a great job.

From my own perspecitve. Sim time and more sim time! Next, is setup. Watch the Finless Bob videos on Helifreakfor CCPMsetup, gyro setup, etc. and the videos for your model.

Scott
Old 03-19-2011, 04:19 PM
  #6280  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

I ran into a couple of other issues early this evening. One is related to the throttle curves.

Torque compensation. I noticed if I used a U curve, when I backed off the collective at the end of a hard collective climb out, the tail would kick. Flat curve, no kick. Odd, huh?

Second problem is V-Bar software related. If you only use VBar Express, you don't get to adjust the endpoints of the collective to make it level throughout its range. I think this is a horrible oversight. I noticed the helicopter wanted to come back a little during climb outs, so I went in and found the endpoints weren't level. I leveled them and it's perfectly straight, now. So, if you're gonna get a Vbar, don't stick with Vbar Express for too long. It'll get you in the ballpark, but if you want to fine tune things, Vbar Pro is the way to go.

I just got back in from doing a Trim Flight. That's where you set up the software to autotrim your helicopter in hover. It has to be done in calm conditions, so it got calm, I went and did it. Hands off hover now. It's very cool. The only thing I haven't checked was the medium speed piro to see if it rocks back and forth. I'll get to that soon.

Scott
Old 03-19-2011, 04:25 PM
  #6281  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: clp.eng

Dave - dual core is right out? Yes??? Local storefront tried to sell me a system for 449. I found a Dell with the i3 for about 100 bucks more (plus more mem & twice the harddirve). Desktop to do nothing fancier than run my sims & talk to you here! I'm really toying with the idea of putting one together myself but I don't think I'd save anything, so what's the point!! Can't wait to see the UFO flight!
By dual core, do you mean, Core 2 duo? They are still around, and you could probably pick something up for cheap (I think, I'd have to look). They are still very capable. My old gaming rig is a Core 2 duo. For a bit of a Intel breakdown:
i3: dual core w/ hyperthreading (acts like 4 processors)
i5: dual or quad core
i7: quad core w/ hyperthreading (acts like 8 processors)

then there's AMD...


I saw something from cnet's cheapskate on a DIY computer:
[link=http://news.cnet.com/8301-13845_3-20044243-58.html?tag=mncol;title]Quad-core DIY PC for $200[/link]
(I can't speak for the quality of Biostar)

or a cute mini-top w/ Intel Atom:
[link=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856107072]Mini-top computer[/link]


One reason to put something together yourself, is so that you can hand-pick what you want.


-Dave

Old 03-19-2011, 04:29 PM
  #6282  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


Max-
Cool! Like Chuck, love the sound they make. Sounds like a friggin' plane. Also like Chuck, I was waiting for (and hoping you didn't) step on your new camera. The ground sounded very squishy (that doesn't happen here a lot).

Scott-
Can you hear anything with the sound of the blades before it kicks over 90° (like the gov'na spins the blades faster or slower, and the tail can't keep up). Does it do it randomly? In hover, etc.

Chuck-
Like Scott says, Pull the trigger!

Eddie-
Yo!
Old 03-19-2011, 04:32 PM
  #6283  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Eman
Welcommme. We've been exxxpecting yoou. Good luck there pal. We'll you are starting with G5.5. Don't touch that heli until you got full hover control in the Sim. How long have you been working the Sim.
Cheers
Old 03-19-2011, 04:33 PM
  #6284  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: dunkonu23


ORIGINAL: EMAN_74

I have been flying for around 6 years fixed wing , I now have a trex 600 hope to learn to fly starting with g 5.5 real flight, anyone have any tips!!!!!



Hey EMAN! Welcome to the collective. My advice is to listen to what Ivan says. Seriously. Stick time, be it planes or helis. Ivan has translated everything into helicopters. He's doing a great job.

From my own perspecitve. Sim time and more sim time! Next, is setup. Watch the Finless Bob videos on Helifreak for CCPM setup, gyro setup, etc. and the videos for your model.

Scott
Welcome EMAN!

to add to what Scotts says:
Stick time on sims or the real thing.

If you haven't ever flown a heli, I recommend:
[link=http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html]Radd's School of Rotary Flight[/link]
to minimize down time do to repairs.

-Dave
Old 03-19-2011, 04:40 PM
  #6285  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

You know Dave... now that you mention it, there is a drop in headspeed when Ilower the collective, but you have to be listen very carefullythat's with the gov'na... U curve it's the same, but not as much kick. Flat curve, nothing. Iwish I knew the Vbar better so I could tune the torque compensation. I'm pretty sure it's over correcting, but how to correct that?

I'm posting some more pictures... final ones... Next will be video, but I haven't taken any, yet.

Scott

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Old 03-19-2011, 06:12 PM
  #6286  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Emann; welcome!! +1 on all the advice you got..Ivan's sorta our pro here! See if there's anybody in your area willing to help you set up your heli, or even to just explain stuff in person. Don't even think about flying it until you know it won't flip backwards and chop your head off because it was set up incorrectly!

Scott, the problems you're having are waaaay above me! I totally agree, I like to mes with it some...but after a point the stupid thing should just fly That's a beautiful heli, I love it!

Chuck, get that mcp-x! Thanks, I love my quad. It's a blast!!! I need to get a real tripod so I don't step on the camera, those little ones just don't do the trick!

Dave, thanks! it's like the "power noise" to me When the wind picks up, the trailing edge starts flapping and that means it's gonna pull like a truck when I take it through the power zone! yeah the grass gets super squishy in the spring here.

Eddie, good to hear from you. Sorry you're not getting any flying in man.



Waiting for my stuff to come so I can get my heli back up again, and tonight I'm ordering the materials to build a second quad, and a longer lineset for the first!
-Max
Old 03-19-2011, 06:36 PM
  #6287  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

eman - welcome! Way too late for me I found vids on YouTube that should help you get started flying - MikeysRC & RChelicopterfun both had vids I watched. I'm sure there are others. GOOD LUCK! Those 600s are stable but can be dangerous so please be careful!

Chuck
Old 03-19-2011, 07:01 PM
  #6288  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

By dual core, do you mean, Core 2 duo? They are still around, and you could probably pick something up for cheap (I think, I'd have to look). They are still very capable. My old gaming rig is a Core 2 duo. For a bit of a Intel breakdown:
i3: dual core w/ hyperthreading (acts like 4 processors); i5: dual or quad core; i7: quad core w/ hyperthreading (acts like 8 processors)

then there's AMD...

One reason to put something together yourself, is so that you can hand-pick what you want.

-Dave
Dave - thanks. I think you just reminded me why I'm NOT going to build my own - TOO D@MN MANY CHOICES!!!!! What's your assesment between the "Dual Core 2.93" (that's what the flyer says! so I guess Core 2 duo) and the i3. Is it worth spending the money on the i3? Doesn't the software have to know & use the multiple cores?

Scott - sounds like you are slowly chipping away at the hurdles! I can't wait to see it go! Amazing the stuff that has come out in the last couple of years. That head looks really robust. Good engineering like that gives me goose bumps! LOL

I forgot the mCP X is flybarless. I'm tired of straightening them. I wonder what you break instead! The Guru is flying again (well hovered it inside any way!). Cloudy tonight so I missed the SuperMoon, darn!

Chuck
Old 03-20-2011, 06:21 AM
  #6289  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Thanks, Max and Chuck.

Yeah, I'm getting closer. MrMel on the Freak asked for my configuration file and suggested I watch his advanced tail tweaking video, so I've done that and have some new vbar settings to try. We have company coming over today so I won't be able to try them today, but will tomorrow after work as it's supposed to be decent outside. That'll probably be the last day I get for a while as the weather is gonna get nasty again... by the end of the week, more snow. They dangle spring at you and then rip it away! Even saw a Robin today... spring can't be far off!

Scott
Old 03-20-2011, 07:05 AM
  #6290  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Scott - do you have to fly or take off any differently than w/flybar?

Chuck
Old 03-20-2011, 09:05 AM
  #6291  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: dunkonu23

I ran into a couple of other issues early this evening. One is related to the throttle curves.

Torque compensation. I noticed if I used a U curve, when I backed off the collective at the end of a hard collective climb out, the tail would kick. Flat curve, no kick. Odd, huh?
Could the two be fighting each other (U curve vs. gov)? Due to the throttle curve, the rpm drop, the gov. notices it and compensates (hard), which causes the tail kick?

I was reading a little on your Vbar, but didn't come across anything that stood out as a problem.

Love the pictures of the machine. That's a lot of lithium up front!

-Dave
Old 03-20-2011, 09:24 AM
  #6292  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: clp.eng

Dave - thanks. I think you just reminded me why I'm NOT going to build my own - TOO D@MN MANY CHOICES!!!!! What's your assesment between the ''Dual Core 2.93'' (that's what the flyer says! so I guess Core 2 duo) and the i3. Is it worth spending the money on the i3? Doesn't the software have to know & use the multiple cores?
There are a lot of choices! But that's the way I like it!

Both have 2 cores. The i3 has hyperthreading, so it looks like 4 cores to Windoze...
[ul][*] The FSB (Front Side Bus) on the Core2 is a lot slower than the DMI (Direct Media Interface) of the i3[*] Core2 uses DDR2 RAM, i3 uses DDR3 (DDR3 is faster)[*] i3 has larger L2 and L3 cache
[/ul]
so, I would recommend the i3. It will give you better performance now and later.

The software does need to know about multiple cores in order to use them (a threaded program) Windows Vista & 7 do a pretty decent job of load balancing. Even if the software doesn't know about the multiple cores, you do! I can rip a CD, which takes up 100% on one of my cores, and still have another (or more) to do other stuff.

Another thing to remember, if you are only going to use 3Meg or less of RAM, then you can stick with a 32bit OS.
Anything higher, and you'll need a 64bit OS.

-Dave
Old 03-20-2011, 09:44 AM
  #6293  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Chuck,

I just don't touch the right stick at all until the helicopter is in the air, then it's normal control. I haven't really noticed much difference, yet. That may be because I've been concentrating on the tail.

Dave,

You have to run a flat curve when you run the governor. Irun a 30/70/100 flat curve in governor mode.I only use the U curve when I disable the governor in software. So, there's no fighting the curve, so to speak. Funky, strange stuff.

On another note, Mr. Mel noticed my rudder tuning from the trim flight was way, way off. So much so that he questioned the mechanical setup. I think it's spot-on, but you never know. So, tomorrow when I get back from work, I'm going to go over the tail with a fine tooth comb and make sure it's right. Then I'll take pictures and send them to him.

Scott
Old 03-20-2011, 05:52 PM
  #6294  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: dunkonu23

Dave,

You have to run a flat curve when you run the governor. I run a 30/70/100 flat curve in governor mode. I only use the U curve when I disable the governor in software. So, there's no fighting the curve, so to speak. Funky, strange stuff.
That's what I figured, but just checking, since you where mentioning the U curve.



No "real" flights this weekend, but I did finally set up Phoenix on my new computer. What a pain! Install 2.5, install DX9, upgrade..., upgrade to 3.0, install DX9 (again), upgrade to latest 3.0.

And since I have a non-standard TX, I have to set the channels and calibrate it as well. At least this time, I included all of my channels, so now I can even fly the tilt-rotors. Ok, "fly" isn't the correct word for it...

Did more stick time w/ nose-in in the sim. See how well it translates to the real thing this week after work.

-Dave
Old 03-20-2011, 06:48 PM
  #6295  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Scott - I was reading up on the mCP X & they said don't touch the sticks until it's airborne. That will take some getting used to!

Thanks, Dave. That's what I sorta' thought. i3 it is. I'll have to think about the OS. Depending were I buy the computer, I may not have a choice.

Maybe you guys can help me figure out what's going on with my sR. It was working OK the end of last season. I DON'T think I changed anything but....

In norm, it won't lift off until almost full throttle & then shoots up like a bottle rocket. When I drop the throttle it sounds like it goes into negative pitch & slams into the ground.

Throt curve is 0,40,80,85,90; hold = -0.0
Pit curve is 40, 45,50,75,100; hold = 0.0,25,5075,100

I did the Ivan "dangle the blades toward the nose" pitch check at mid stick & they were very close to equal. The servos seem to move just fine without any apparent binding. The pinion seems tight on the shaft.

When I kicked it into idle up on the ground it spun 360° & then stopped spinning. I took it out of IU & throttled down.

I'm not sure what to check next. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Chuck
Old 03-21-2011, 12:59 AM
  #6296  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2


ORIGINAL: dknovick


ORIGINAL: dunkonu23

Dave,

You have to run a flat curve when you run the governor. Irun a 30/70/100 flat curve in governor mode.I only use the U curve when I disable the governor in software. So, there's no fighting the curve, so to speak. Funky, strange stuff.
That's what I figured, but just checking, since you where mentioning the U curve.



No "real" flights this weekend, but I did finally set up Phoenix on my new computer. What a pain! Install 2.5, install DX9, upgrade..., upgrade to 3.0, install DX9 (again), upgrade to latest 3.0.

And since I have a non-standard TX, I have to set the channels and calibrate it as well. At least this time, I included all of my channels, so now I can even fly the tilt-rotors. Ok, "fly" isn't the correct word for it...

Did more stick time w/ nose-in in the sim. See how well it translates to the real thing this week after work.

-Dave

Yeah, the Phoenix install process is a pain at times, but once you install it and get it upgraded, it's AWESOME. I'm running everything maxed on my new laptop and it's simply stunning in terms of flying. I even make the same mistakes with the same results on Phoenix.

Scott

Old 03-21-2011, 01:02 AM
  #6297  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Chuck,

I think they mean don't touch the right stick.  You have to touch the left stick to get the helicopter airborne.. or maybe they don't want it flown at all.

Scott
Old 03-21-2011, 02:03 PM
  #6298  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Bad news today.... First the good news... I think I have the tail kick fixed... now the bad news, I can't test it anymore for awhile.   During my second flight, my new Castle 120HV ESC caught fire.  I auto'd in, roughly, broke the skids and ran to the helicopter while it was still on fire.  Luckily, after unplugging the battery, the fire went out.   I'm so bummed.  Oh, well... it had to happen sooner or later. 

Scott
Old 03-21-2011, 03:07 PM
  #6299  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Dam Scott that sux, hope u didn't sustain any fire damage tothe heli itself. I was lucky that mine didn't wen I tacoed my pack lol.
Old 03-21-2011, 03:26 PM
  #6300  
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Default RE: Struggling with single rotor basics V2

Thanks, Eddie. No damage to the frame or anything else.. all the wiring is cool. Looked kind of cool with fire coming out of the back. Kind a funky at about 80 feet up... I'm just happy Ipractice autos on the sim.

I remember your entry into the Taco club! Looks like we both dodged a bullet.

Scott


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