Jim, I'm using a Jeti DS-16 now but as I remember Futaba also allows you to mix with a multi point "line" curve. I think you will find it more brilliant as you can adjust the points for amplitude and stick position. And you can reverse the slopes if you need to, that is, less mix at large inputs. Let me know what you think.

Jim O

Jim,
One problem I've found on the 18 multi point mix (and it was an issue in my JR days too) is that you often can't get the first point close enough to neutral to be able to set it accurately for say rudder to elevator mix in knife edge. I find I end up setting the point as close as I can to neutral and then playing with the mix percentage to get the correct amount at the stick position I actually need it at. The same goes for the so called program mixing feature. There should be some way to temporarily expand the screen view around neutral to allow these points to be accurately set. I have tried various work arounds but haven't found a satisfactory one yet.

Any ideas?

Malcolm

Hi Malcolm,

You aren't going to like my idea. The Jeti DS-16 allows me to move the points in 1% increments both horizontally and vertically. You can see in the figure I have moved Point 6, the first point to the right of center, from 25% down to 1% and the amplitude from 25% down to 18%. One can also vary the Master input in one percent increments, so I'm guessing you could find a combination that would give you 12 bit resolution on the amplitude. To tell the truth, I don't really know exactly how much rudder I hold in knife edge, so I end up setting the amplitude much like you do. But now that I think about it, I can look at my stick position as it is one of the parameters I record. I'll have dig out some recent flights and see if it is consistent. I'll also see what happens on knife edge loops. I haven't tried to optimize the mix there.

The great thing about RC Pattern flying is, you can always do it better, but it isn't easy. If it was it wouldn't be fun.

Jim O

I don't know why RCU doesn't open BMP files. Let's try JPEG.

Nice Jim!

But your correct I don't like your idea in the short term but maybe later

Malcolm

Hi Jim O.

If the plane needs negative elevator around neutral, then positive elevator at more rudder throw, I'll change the incidence so that the rudder/mix trend is always "one direction." The fidelity of the points is tough to get right.

On older setups swinging 40 degrees of rudder all the time, 2% mix to elevator used to make a difference. Now, we can perform knife edge loops on 18 degrees rudder throw, but elevator travel is still around 10 deg let's say ( unchanged).

why do I mention this? Because as long as the mix is one-direction, the "expo" is just a means to move the total travel closer or further from a standard linear mix. On my pattern planes with super effective lifting fuselages and yaw authority, and low rudder throw, the shape of the curve doesn't really matter. I just want enough mix in the range of rudder being used.

on my IMAC planes, I use around 10% mix and negative expo! Low lift fuselage and not very effective rudder, shape of the curve matters need lots of mix as rudder throw increases.
thx,
Jim W.

Has this thread been highjacked or what? Now talking of IMAC is just too much! ;-)

Anyone care to discuss the Allure? Perhaps some comments from people at the NATS that have seen it fly?

Cheers,
Jason.

Is bigger better? I mean Bigger fins that is.... Allure vs Inspire.

Some nice shots from the NATS.

Another shot of the Allure from the flight line.



Cheers,
Jason.

Who's this bloke holding the Allure? ;-) I think it suits him...

Well I`m Back home and I have my Baby with me the glow Allure
Brett had about 10flights on the airplane before we competed with it and flew it very well indeed, He managed to win a round with it and it performed flawlessly through the event.
I know some said it was a risk to fly it with no time on the model But it goes to show how good the airplane is and How a good setup from the designer can make it work from the building table to the team trials.
After Brett flew the first flight with it he called me and said, Dude this thing is Awesome and flies with the speed control of the Alferma! This made me smile. finishing the airplane with no time for errors to overcome.

The YS 1.75 on the YS mount was perfect for this airplane , Smooth, Quiet, and reliable.
The Xtreme team did a great job constructing this Model and the outcome shows how well it came together with no time to spare.
I have quite a few pre orders now the cut off date is August 15 for the discount.

Bryan

Congrat's Bryan...,...beautiful machine!

Bill

Can't wait to get hold of my one Bryan. It all sounds great!

So did Brett let you have a fly of the Allure? :-)

Cheers,
Jason.

Jason,
I had a chance to fly it after the contest But I chose to let other fly it. I have since come home and made some tweaks to the settings I will fly it as soon as my radio gets back from repairs. I should be able to make some local events this fall and put some time on it.

He did tease me Saying " Man you gotta fly this thing!" We let 4-5 guys fly it they all seemed pleased.
Bryan

Nobody could accuse you of being selfish Bryan.

Cheers,
Jason.

Through a series of interesting events just prior to the US Nats, I was fortunate enough to be able to bring the Electric prototype Allure along with me to show for Byran. He convinced me that I should get a flight on it just in case it would be needed as a backup plane to my Evo. After two short trim flights (about 2300 mah each) the airplane was tracking very nicely. I was able to put just a couple of full flights on the plane during and after the Nats with a Neu motor and APC prop (apc was needed for balance). It flys the masters pattern at a very nice pace and presents very well (large, swept wing presence in the air). In my opinion the airplane tracks like a bit smaller fuselage, very solid in yaw with a slight tendency to help feed itself into a cross-wind. This is certainly not what I expected due to the massive size of the fuselage. I think Bryan has really hit the mark on area distribution on the fuselage allowing it to be light in knife edge yet soft on the rudder. In person the tail section sculpting/design is simply beautiful. The wing and stab are little larger than what I have been flying on my airplane, but they certainly don't feel or look too big in the air. The snaps required a good bit of aileron (just as Bryan instructed) but were very clean for such a new setup. I would highly recommend this airplane and I want to thank Bryan for letting me weigh in with my thoughts on his brand new design. We have traded a lot of thoughts and laser files over the past few seasons about design and building and it was really flattering to have him ask me for my thoughts and input.

Ready to fly weight: 4870g with the Neu, Budd mount, APC 22x12, falcon spinner, HV80, Gforce 5000mah (1150g), 800mah Rx lipo, 5v regulator, standard Rx switch, futaba digitals all around, MK wheels. Bryan spent the time to visit the factory and the final weight and finish is evidence of how valuable that trip was.



As usual, Bryan ran down a long list with me of the very small changes to be made/corrected before production begins...perfectionist as always.


Best Regards,
Mark Hunt
2014' US Masters Champion

Hi Mark,

Congratulations on your Masters win at the NATS.

It's great to read your thoughts on Bryan's new Allure. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,
Jason.

Congratulations for the win Mark, and thank you for the flight report.

Bryan stated that all versions have 0 deg right thrust, and i would be interested to hear more about this setup, especially for electric power and the 22 in APC propeller. I would like to try it in my new plane, but going from 3 deg right thrust (as my Radiance requires for perfectly straight verticals) to 0 deg would be a huge step.

Can you or Bryan share your experience on this? I'd like to know if the vertical uplines are straight and stable with this setup, without any throttle to rudder mix. How about loop tracking? Is it affected in any way? With the plane trimmed for straight horizontal flight, is there any rudder offset from center position?

Thanks,
Alex

Hi Alex

There is no rudder offset trim or rudder to throttle mix needed for the model with my setup.
The only mix needed is a down elevator to no throttle mix for down lines. there is .25 deg right thrust set in on the nose ring but was not intended. IT
was accidentally done during the finishing of the plug. But it`s not detrimental to the model and barely even visible. The setup for all versions are the same however.

The need for right thrust on any model is only compounded by the use of down thrust and the placement of the COG for a given incidence setting.
Wing loading plays a very big role in the need for right and down thrust as well as the design and wing inc. settings. Every part of setup and design contributes to the need or lack of any thrust offset. Some designs need the thrust and throttle to rudder mix, and will not fly pure without it. My goal is to eliminate that through setup and design work. You can get lost in the weeds if your not careful and most guys don`t care if they need it or not. I`m just stubborn that way

I recommend If your model needs the thrust leave it in place. and work it out of future projects. It`s not a really bad thing and most airplanes have been setup that way for a long time with good success.

Bryan
CKAero.net

Thanks Bryan, i will send you a PM with a few more questions.

Just wanted to add in my two cents on the Allure. I knew this was going to be a solid airframe before I flew it because it's based off the platform of the Shinden, a design that we know is solid and pure. What I didn't know was how much I was going to love this airplane!

It's been 3 years since I've even flown a monoplane in competition. What a lot of people don't realize is modern designs are being formed around, for the most part, the unknown maneuvers. The trend towards biplanes has a lot to do with the unknowns, and for good reason. You can't beat the yaw authority and flexibility the biplane gives you in unknowns, but there are some compromises made with ease of setup, tracking, and purity. Bryan and I have made huge gains in these areas with the biplane but the compromises are still there. The Allure takes advantage of that natural locked-in feeling and runs with it.

The first time I flew the airplane I was immediately struck by that locked on feeling. Matt Stringer made this comment when he flew the airplane, that as soon as you let go of the elevator the airplane instantly sticks to where it's at. I think that's a great way to put it. The airplane feels the same way in roll. Over all, and I made this comment many times when I was asked about it at the nats, the airplane is just easy to fly and the sheer size of it makes it present so well it ruins every other monoplane on the line (in my opinion, at least). It keeps it's pace incredibly well, never becoming "zoomy" on the exit of tall verticals. The size also gives it great yaw authority. It's not like the Alferma (you probably wouldn't want to do Knife Edge Vertical 8's downwind with it), but plenty to do the downwind radius in the golfball in F-15, and plenty to do a beautiful Knife Edge Humpty Bump in P-15. The large vertical stab gives it tremendous stability in Yaw so the airplane never feels uncomfortable either. When you let go of the rudder, that's where the airplane is going to stay. There's no messaging the backside of that humpty bump in P, or really trying hard to make that last 3/4 roll of the gofball axial. Let go of the rudder, do the roll, done. Easy.

I regret not having the time to really fly the Allure through F-15. I did the golfball a few times and I did some various snaps but never ran it through the whole pattern. The golfball was remarkably easy though and 1.5 snaps, and especially knife edge snaps, we're crisp, tight, and controllable. I am more impressed with this airplane than I ever thought I was going to be.

I know I'm biased. Of course, I stand to gain from people buying this airplane. But like Bryan I also stand behind what I put out there. This is a fantastic airplane and I'm very excited to be associated with it and for other people to get it into their hands.

Here is another photo from the Nats last week, enjoy!

Certainly puts the scale of the Allure into perspective.... Looks great!

Cheers,
Jason.

What's your preliminary due date for arrival of these gems?