Emory,

Have you tried a different ESC? It didn't sink in that you are running a Phoenix 85 with an outrunner. There are a lot of people having trouble with Castle ESCs and outrunner motors. I know CC is working hard on this and maybe they have the problem(s) solved, but it might be worth it to give a Jetti or Hacker ESC a try..... Maybe even borrow one just for test.

Say, did you build these Black Magic airframes yourself? The reason I ask is that I'm very interested in giving one a try, but I've never built any precision airframes before and I'm a little intimidated by it.

About the only credit I can take for anything on my Black Magic is the vinyl. Mike built them for me and did a fantastic job!

It might be worth a try to use a different ESC.

Thanks,
Emory

I get that a lot

I'd have to say it's intimidating until you start building it, then the next comment I get is "WOW that was easy and faster than I thought!"

It's basically a box with rounded cores and composites glued to it. I would say the hardest part is sheeting the parts. The framing of the plane itself is a piece of cake.

It's a great candidate for electric, because it takes full advantage of what an electric can do with very few compromises. It's not specifically geared toward the FAI "F" pattern, which makes it one heck of a pattern plane. Most planes today are geared specifically for that pattern, and compromise too much in my opinion for everything else. It will do the F pattern, and very well I might add, but it does take more effort than planes specifically designed for it. Which is almost every current pattern plane on the market BTW.....

However, it really shines in the P pattern, and all of the AMA classes. You'd have to see one track, roll and snap to appreciate it. I'm probably biased, but this is pretty much exactly what I get from everyone who's flown it or judged it. I don't mean it to sound like it's revolutionary, it's not. It's just a different approach than most other planes are taking, and it definitely feels different than most any other plane.

The construction is as basic as it gets in a builder's kit. if you can build a straight box, you can build a straight Black Magic. If you can weigh a piece of wood, you can build a light Black Magic.

Just thought I'd chime in.

BTW Emory, after really thinking hard about it, I'm not sure I'd change that prop if I could avoid it. That thing is the strongest E-pattern plane I have yet to see. Anywhere. I'd be looking for ways to make it work if at all possible.

-Mike

Geez I'm starting to sound like a salesman, sorry.....LOL

-Mike

No appologies necessary, Mike. It's a good looking plane and you are understandably proud of it. I think I'm going to give one a try for this up coming winter building season. I like the idea of haveing a capable pattern plane that isn't an ARF and didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

Alright, I had a chance to get out to the field today and get just 3 more flights on the eBlack Magic. Still having some issues, but it's better.
Adjusted the throttle curve so that was much improved.
Adjusted the ATV on the high end throttle and limited the max amps to 78. Didn't tach it, but the power was still very good. I don't think I had to ever use full throttle.
Flight 1- Flew around for about 2 minutes and then the motor cut out again like it did last weekend. Landed with the motor turning, but not really responding. After about 10-15 seconds and after landing, the motor control was back. So, I just decided to try a different ESC (another CC HV85). I swapped that out. It has the same settings.
Flight 2- Flew around about 1 minute, same thing happened. Landed, hooked up a watt meter right after that. I was seeing around 78 amps, 2500 watts, and the voltage was down to 34 at full throttle (still well above the 30 cutoff). Alright, Mike Hester and Jim Ivey were there and suggested trying something different. I had been running the brake and not spinning the prop at the bottom of the throttle position (just hadn't made it that far in programing the radio, I like using the throttle cutoff on a switch). So, I clicked in a couple bits of throttle on the trim and took off using the same battery packs, etc... Flew about six minutes with no cutting out.
Flight 3- Flew through the masters pattern for the first time. Left in the clicks of trim so it was idling at a few hundred RPM. No issues with the flight.
So, at least for now, that seems to have made a difference.
One negative observation. The AXI/HV85 combo still seems to have some software issues. I have downloaded the most recent ESC software and I'm still getting some screeching from the motor. Not as often as I did using the Plett 30-10 before the newer software, but still often enough to be annoying.
The AXI 5330 seems like a fantastic motor. Definitely has more punch than the older Plett 30-10 and the price is nice. Hey, at least that is one thing on this plane that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Also, I have a NioseSink installed between the ESC and Motor. There is no question that this has greatly improved my range check!

Emory.

Emory, link to noise sink please?
-Adam

Here you go...
http://www.multimodetech.com/

Emory.

Glad to hear the AXI is running good for you. I have had two airplanes without a choke, and after all the issues I had with the third plane, I will never fly without one in an electric pattern plane again. Futaba's choke works quite well, and I have had no range or interferance issues with the last two planes at all.

Emory,

I'm glad that you have the problem under control, if not solved. Of the CC controllers I've had (a lot!) I've only had two setups that screeched. Both were with an outrunner. Once was a Phoenix 60 and an AXI 4120/14 and one was a Phoenix 10 and an Eflite Park 370. Both times it seemed to be down on power when the motor screeched. I've never had another contoller brand that made the motor screech.

That noise sink is an interesting little device. In all the years I've been flying electric power, (about 10) I've never had to use a choke of any kind. I wonder if whatever is causing the screeching went away, the need for the choke would also go away?

Hey Emory,

What are the chances of posting some pics of your motor installation and the innards of your plane showing battery and equipment lay-out. I know it's a pain, but it would be greatly appreciated. You know us pattern types love lookin' under the hood.

Thanks a million...

Gene

Hey Gene,

I'll get some posted soon. Mike Hester and I were flying last weekend and while I was changing out an ESC, he took some photos of the !QUOT!innerds!QUOT!. So, we'll get them posted soon. Also, I finally put on my graphics tonight. I'll take some new photos tomorrow. It looks pretty much like to old one, but I changed the graphics just a bit.

BTW, I flew it again this weekend. The ESC is better, but by no means where it needs to be. It still screeched at least once a flight (almost, I think I had one clean flight out of four) which caused the airplane to loose power. I had to bail out of the maneuver and bring the motor back to idol and then it worked fine again. But, I didn't have to land the plane like I did the week before. I think I will call Castle tomorrow. It has been suggested that perhaps this is too much prop and I may want to try something a little smaller. I really like this 15 pitch prop (20x15) as it seems to have good speed if needed. I considered cutting one down to a 19!QUOT! to try, but I may also try some other 20!QUOT! props. Anyway, this motor seems to be doing well and just hasn't gotten hot yet. I don't think I have seen it much over 100 degrees F. Even checking it minutes later and on the windings. I assume this is all good. The speed controller is around 105 F and the batteries were between 120-130 F. So far, I seem to be using between 3000-4000 mah to fly the masters pattern plus about 5-6 maneuvers. If I get this ESC issue worked out, I think I am really going to like this!

Thanks,
Emory

Emory,

Dan and myself are using the 20x13 APC e prop with out any problems.. (5330/FAI) you could also save some weight going to a HV45 and just have some good cooling to it.. Try to talk to Bernie at CC here is his Ex: 123

I also have some other props if you want to do some testing.

Scott Anderson
Team Castle Creations
Team Tanicpacks.com

PS: I'm going to hook up with Mike H. on Wednesday and get a good look at the BM..

Here are some pictures of my #2 Black Magic. It's pretty much the same as the first one, with just a little difference in the vinyl...

Very nice....I like it a bunch!

Gene

Hey Guys,

In talking with Castle Creations today, I found out that I was not running the most current software for the ESC. I had the 1.51 version. He said that my issues with the motor cutting out should be fixed by just installing the 1.52. I certainly hope so. Also, as Scott suggested, they said I may want to try a prop with a little less load, either smaller pitch or diameter. I will probably go ahead and try the 20x15 with the updated software first, as I really like the way it flies. It wouldn't hurt to try some others, though. I'll let you know how it comes out next weekend, hopefully.

Emory.

Well, these aren't the best pics in the world. The sun was blinding and my camera just wasn't happy.

But, here's a couple of pics and I hope you can make something out....

-Mike

That's what I was looking for, a picture answers a million questions.

The motor mount looks like a Hacker type, am I on track here?

Thanks Mike & Emory....


Gene

This is the mount we used. I think it's even that plane....

-Mike

The motor mount I bought from Esprit models...
http://www.espritmodel.com/

Look under accessories.

Emory.

Got video here:

http://64.207.169.247/eBlackMagic.mov - Emory doing the masters pattern, on a great day at America's #1 flying site.... GA Jets....

it's 20 mb and I'll keep it up until my web hosting company starts complaining about bandwidth limits - it's quicktime, works great on a mac, should work fine on a pc with quicktime installed.

enjoy,

Dean

Dean, you can increase the quality substantially by encoding that video with a good codec. The best is h.264, second best is xvid.

For anyone having trouble playing Dean's .mov file, download and install this:
http://i2.edskes.com/klcodec272f.exe

Alright, I have gotten a little more time on the Black Magic. I've had some interesting things going on. I had to replace the motor. Maybe a couple of weeks before the Jacksonville contest, the motor seemed louder than it had been. There were no problems with the numbers. Amps and battery usage were what they had been. When I was flying at Jacksonville, the motor started making a clicking noise when it spun around. I continued to fly it at the contest, but decided to send it back to Hobby Lobby after that. They sent me a new motor, which I installed and ran today for the first time. This thing is so quiet! I think the other one started out like this, but just got slightly louder little by little so I didn't notice it. Anyway, here is something I couldn't explain. I originally liked the 20x15 prop on the old AXI motor. This soon felt too fast and I settled on the 21x13w. When I tried it today, it felt too slow. The numbers were what I would expect from previous times flying. So, I put the 20x15 back on and it felt great again. I limited the full throttle to under 80 amps and it was spinning around 5900-6000 rpm. I usually didn't go above 3/4 throttle.

The ESC problem I was having did not show it's head. The throttle was extremely smooth and there was not any sign of the motor going out of sinc. I am running their latest software update (version 2.20). I don't know if part of the problem was the motor going bad or if there were some problems with the software. Maybe some of both? Anyway, it seemed to run very well today for 5 flights so I hope it continues.

I also wonder if I just got a bad motor, or if I am running it too hard. I still really like the way this motor performs and for the money, its hard to beat (2 year warranty also). That is if you can keep the airplane under 11 pounds.

Hey Emory,

What do you mean,"if you can keep the airplane under 11 pounds"? Are you over weight? I won't tell anyone--I promise! This is just between you and me.

And, have you had any issues with your motor mount? Such as not being robust enough, in other words does it flop around or twist radially when under load? Or maybe change thrust angles that you can detect?

Oh yea, and has the battery placement had any ill effect on the vertical CG or flying characteristics? Ryan thinks the BMv2 is vertical CG sensitive, what do you say?

Thanks

Gene

Hey Gene,

I am right at the limit at 10#15 ounces. What I meant by that comment was that if you can keep your airplane under 11 pounds with this motor, then I think it is a good choice.

As far as I can tell, this motor mount has been great. It has very little movement when you grab the spinner and move side to side.

As far as the vertical CG goes, I don't know. I just fly the darn thing and like it. It is a nice flying plane.

Emory.