Emory,

Thanks for your response. The reason for my motor mount question was raised by some of my pattern buds. I was forced to take my under construction BMv2E to the local flying field as it was suggested that there was a possibility that a certain BMv2E in my possession might not actually exist. Well, after direct evidence was presented that said BMv2E does in fact exist and thorough examination was completed by the official pattern examination board the subject of the AXI motor mount conundrum was presented, hence my question.

I shall report to the board that the suspect motor mount has been tested and approved for flight as per your response and any further inquiry be directed to you. LOL... Don't you just love this hobby and the guys that go with it? Do you have an official pattern plane approval board at your field?

Gene

Gene,

I had that same mount in my Focus 2 with the /F3A motor worked great... for all of 60 flights, but there were no issues at all as far as twisting or flexing. Mount is very rigid and stiff. I replaced the front plate with a carbon/plywood laminate to reduce weight, and ground the heck out of the rear plate to save a few grams (waste of effort, saved less than a half ounce). My Dad is has that mount on his Focus too, works really well and he has probably 70 flights or so on it.

Because the motor sticks out farther though, you want to make sure the firewall that the mount is connected to is secure. We reinforced the firewall with light aluminum angle pieces to make sure that it was stiff enough.

Tom

Gene, as a member of the SAM Pattern Advisory Board and Motor Mount Inspection Crew, I am glad to hear you are in fact 'not crazy'. However, it will severely restrict using you as a topic of our discussions at the field.

Seriously, thanks for bring the Black Magic out for us to see. Impressive construction, nice job.

Now, get off the computer and get back to work on the BMV2.....

Woodie

Thanks Tom,

I'll add your name to the official approved for flight endorsers. I don't want an A-D down the line. You know I have a bunch of tough examiners here in the Sacramento area. Woodie and FC walk a very straight line and rule with an iron-fist. I don't want to look in your neck of the woods for my lost AXI if it departs the plane on its maiden flight.

Good talkin' to you at the SAM contest. Saturday was pretty tough flyin' ... Sunday was better I heard, but I wasn't able to be there on Sunday. Would have liked to see the E-Powered planes do their thing in better conditions, but I didn't feel they forfeited anything to the glow planes even in the windy conditions and I judged two rounds on Saturday and saw all the planes perform.
This electric thing has really regenerated my interest in pattern.

Did you witness the mid-air on Sunday? It was the talk at our pattern breakfast meeting this morning?


Gene

Hey Woodie,

Go easy on me, you know I'm the sensitive type! What do you mean limiting me as a topic for discussion when I'm not around. I'll hear none of this, as I take great comfort in slander and groundless innuendo.

Gene

Sorry, this is the Electric Black Magic thread and I've overstepped proper etiquette......

Well, I have maybe 15 more flight on this plane and the HV85 ESC and the AXI 5330/FAI are doing fine. I haven't had any more issues with the motor going out of sync or dying. I'm not sure if it is the new programming on the ESC or the new motor, but the throttle transition and power are great. Now I just have to get the throttle curve adjusted and get some more flying time.

Emory

That's great Emory, hope it continues that way for you!!!

We just completed the NSRCA District 7 Championships in Arvin, CA last weekend. GREAT weather, great turnout (35 flyers) and a strong showing of electric with 12 of the 35 being electric. As far as I know, there were no problems with the electric powerplants at the contest. They were a mixture of in-runners and outrunners, controllers (Jeti and Hacker) and batteries (TP and FlightPower). Like I said, all performed without problems and didn't seem to give up anything to the glo power plants.

Electric won 1st and 3rd in FAI, 1st thru 3rd in Masters and I can't recall beyond that. Details in the District 7 website ( www.nsrca.org/d7 ).

There were several discussions about the Black Magic as many people would like an alternative that doesn't involve ordering a composite or fixing an ARFs shortcomings. I know of 3 that are being built locally at this time. I bet we see several BMs in District 7 next year.

Don Atwood (Woodie)

Mike,

It's been a while since I have scratch build. Can you explain the construction of the firewall. It appears it is plywood with laminated carbon fiber. Also, what is the material you used for the "floor" between the firewall and the next former. It appears to be a sandwich carbon fiber material.

Thanks

Bruce Thompson

Hi Bruce,

Well, since there is a LOT of torque on those stand offs with the outrunner, I had to make the firewall stiff. REALLY stiff.

It's a piece of 1/8" A/C ply bonded to a piece of 1/8" balsa, then laminated on both sides with 2.4 ounce C/F and .2 oz carbon tissue. Vacuum pulled to about 22 in Hg. It's REALLY strong and light.

At the points where the stand offs screw into the firewall, I used a piece of 1/2" tubing to remove a round section of the balsa from the back, careful not to get into the A/C ply. Then I installed small flush discs of hardwood dowel, and drilled...voila. Sounds much more complicated than it is but it works great. I don't think I've ever seen Emory's spinner move even a fraction of an inch under any load.

The floor pieces between F1 and F2, and between the gear block and F3 is a 1/8" carbon/nomex panel, with lightening holes. Honestly I think it's overkill at this point. Lite ply and 1/8" balsa behind the gear block is plenty.

FWIW, I do laminate the electric firewalls here now and they come laminated in carbon. I don't cut out the discs though because that depends on your mount. I can say that the mounts we used on this plane are the cat's nippies for outrunners. Solid as a rock, but they weigh a couple ounces. You can pick the plane up and swing the whole thing by the spinner (not that I'd recommend that, but you could....)

-Mike

Wow....something just tickled my memory.....

Aren't you the 2 guys that wrote "Building a Pattern Airplane"?

When I saw your 2 names together in those 2 posts something went off in my memory....that's the book that I read the covers off before I built my first pattern plane! I still use a lot of those techniques, although most are tweaked a little over time....

Just curious....

-Mike

Mike, I guess we're busted........ ;-)

Sure glad you came up with a design that can still be built by some of us 'old timers' that remember what it's like to chew glue off our fingers while we are having morning coffee.

Don

That was a fantastic book. With only a couple of additions and updates, that book would still be "everything you ever wanted to know about building a pattern plane" even today.

I'm really glad you like the Black Magic. And just wait, I'm just getting started...... [8D]

No kidding, I'm flattered!

-Mike

Hey All,

I'd love to get a copy of the book. Anybody have an extra copy?

dean

Dean I don't think they are available anymore, but you can borrow mine.

Just don't let your cats eat it!!!!

-Mike

Just had to share....

John Fuqua's new Electric V2.2E. Dualsky 140 outrunner, Vampower 4000 packs (same cells as TP extreme supposedly)

Wood/foam/composite construction, glassed and painted fuse, monokoted wing and stabs...thanks to Dean Funk for painting it!

Flying weight: 9lbs 14 ozs.

Not bad for a wood roach!

-Mike

Is that Dualsky motor a fanjet? I don't see no steenkin' propellers... [8D]

LOL

That was just stuck together for delivery last weekend. He sent me the final weight this morning. WITH the prop......

-Mike

Hey Handglider and Mike Hester,

What's with all the hoggin' out of the #1 fuse former and the upper stiffener between the firewall and #1 former? I thought these mighty electric motors would rip the front right off these wood roaches! But if that will save a pound, count me in...


Gene

Are we ever going to see you fly at some point? [8D]

Derek,

At this point .....no

I'm not sure I would call it flying....maybe humiliation is more accurate.



Gene

We have worked with Emory and John for the BM. It is a truly gorgeous airplane. John is flying the new Vampower Platinum Series 10S3700's (2 X 5S 3700) and the performance is great reported by John. One thing that does concern us is the capacity of the packs flown on very windy days. We are putting 3750 back into the packs. The temp after shutdown still only reads about 128 degrees which is fine.
In next week are the 5S5000 series which will provide 110 amps continuous. That is the pack that will be flown at the NATS.
The weight will still be fine and after the CG is set again the BM will fly even better. We did find that depropping a little help with forward speed in the wind.

Jeff C.

I think the 5k packs and the larger motor are the ticket. It's a lot heavier, but it works a lot better in really crappy conditions.

Looking forward to hear how the 5ks work out!

-Mike

Guys....We just received the 5000's yesterday and they look and feel great. John F is did the the weight check last night. I have a crappy scale. Also in are the 5S4500's. both packs are 22C continuous 40 burst which will do well. The wind is the enemy of a smaller pack and weight is of the larger ones. I will get with John today and find out what the V2.2E comes in at.
We will do a static thrust test in the next day or so with the current set up....should be schweet. I will post pics today
Also in are the brand new linear voltage reg's with redundant battery harness, fail safe switch and on board voltage led's! These can deliver a continuous amperage for your power hungry digital servos and 2.4 receivers. Models available now are the 3, 5, and 8 amp versions. Dualsky is really stepping up to the plate lately. There is more stuff coming soon too.[8D] Pics also to follow.
Jeff

Jeff, do we have pricing info on these packs yet?

thanks...

This is exciting stuff Jeff!!

I had a conversation with John at Andersonville, and we know the plane will be close with the big packs. But legal is all that matters, because the weight doesn't change. Even a 9.5 lb YS powered plane gets close to 11 lbs with a full tank of fuel, so flying weight is all that matters. And in pattern, as long as that weight is under 11 lbs, anything less is just bragging rights. Some will call me a heretic for saying that, but it's true.

I'm really interested in this for obvious reasons. The lighter the better, because the heavier the set up, the more pressure it puts on building the airframe. There is a set weight for a lot of things and right now we're approaching terminal lightness on the airframes. With the smaller set up the weight was just not an issue at all, it was less than 10 lbs flying. But it lacked on power and the wind is a killer. We need to be able to run the large motors and packs. When the price and weight and reliability all get better, it just makes it easier and opens this up for more options. More options is better!!!!

I know Emory is eyeballing the 5000 packs for his new VF3, and I'm about to start the build thread on that airframe. I'm getting really creative out of necessity!

-Mike