DualSky 11T testing
#1
Thread Starter
DualSky 11T testing
After discussions at a recent contest and on the thread about props for the DualSky 12T, I decided to run some tests on the 11T with the hope of getting more power. I originally selected the 12T to replace the Hacker C50 14XL with a 22x12 APC. The trend now is to smaller props and faster flying and that suggests the 11T might be better. I installed the 11T in my Abbra with some difficulty as it was an early model and wasn't exactly the same as the 12T. Anyway I tested it statically in the garage with the 20.5x14 APC and a True RC 5000 10s pack. The results indicated an increase of about .5 HP (366 watts) output at the expense of 507 more Watts input for the 11T over the 12T. I knew that meant more heat in the motor and battery packs as the increase in input power is the result of more current. I was also concerned about using more capacity during a given flight.
Today I took the plane out to Sepulveda Basin in 107F weather. I took one flight and was quite concerned with the temperature of the motor (146F) and Battery (126F) when I landed. The Jeti controller said it got to 85C, the highest I have ever seen, 73 Amps, which I know is lower than actual but a lot more than the 56 I see on the 12T, and 6740 RPM way up from the 12T. The RF link on the Eagle Tree was intermittent so I didn't have any other data to go by at the field. I decided my old TP Prolites couldn't handle it so I decided to quit for the day. i was kind of discouraged and figured I'd just put the 12T back in the plane. By the way the power increase was very noticeable in the air and I can see why it is desirable.
After I got home I looked at the data in the Eagle Tree and was pleasantly surprised. The peak current was 77.7 Amps at 34.46 volts (2677 Watts) and the cumulative mAh used was 3775. When I recharged the battery it took 3862 mAh. Unfortunately the tach didn't work but the Eagle tree and Jeti were always pretty close on peak rpm. I was over 70 Amps, just six times for very short durations. Most of the uplines, loops etc., were just under 70 Amps. All the numbers looked very acceptable.
I decided the high temperatures were driven primarily by the ambient temperature which was 30 degrees higher than my normal practice field in Camarillo and that the increase due to the motor change was minimal. The whole thing is looking good and I will test it again in Camarillo.
Jim O
Today I took the plane out to Sepulveda Basin in 107F weather. I took one flight and was quite concerned with the temperature of the motor (146F) and Battery (126F) when I landed. The Jeti controller said it got to 85C, the highest I have ever seen, 73 Amps, which I know is lower than actual but a lot more than the 56 I see on the 12T, and 6740 RPM way up from the 12T. The RF link on the Eagle Tree was intermittent so I didn't have any other data to go by at the field. I decided my old TP Prolites couldn't handle it so I decided to quit for the day. i was kind of discouraged and figured I'd just put the 12T back in the plane. By the way the power increase was very noticeable in the air and I can see why it is desirable.
After I got home I looked at the data in the Eagle Tree and was pleasantly surprised. The peak current was 77.7 Amps at 34.46 volts (2677 Watts) and the cumulative mAh used was 3775. When I recharged the battery it took 3862 mAh. Unfortunately the tach didn't work but the Eagle tree and Jeti were always pretty close on peak rpm. I was over 70 Amps, just six times for very short durations. Most of the uplines, loops etc., were just under 70 Amps. All the numbers looked very acceptable.
I decided the high temperatures were driven primarily by the ambient temperature which was 30 degrees higher than my normal practice field in Camarillo and that the increase due to the motor change was minimal. The whole thing is looking good and I will test it again in Camarillo.
Jim O
#2
My Feedback: (5)
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Hmmmm. That is really interesting Jim. I may try to find one of these motors and give it a go. Since the newer packs will be fine running the higher output it shouldn't stress the packs too badly. I will probably want to rework some of my air ducting in order to accomodate the additional cooling required. Seeing as how I am one of the proponents to higher amperage faster flying, it might be worth a shot.
Thanks for the test session in the heat. Now, go back out and do it again.....
Steve
Thanks for the test session in the heat. Now, go back out and do it again.....
Steve
#3
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Jim, your results are very similar to what I have found with the 11T vs the 12T. Basically, I find the 11T to be almost the same as an AXI 5330/F3A. Same amps and rpm during my tests comparing the two. Only difference is the DS is 2 oz lighter. With the higher rpm, you can also back off on the pitch for the 'calm' days and the amps and usage will go down. For really windy, strap on a 20x15 and 'hang on'. ;-) I still prefer the 12T because of the lower amp draw, I can still get plenty of speed out of the motor with more pitch.
Don
Don
#4
Thread Starter
RE: DualSky 11T testing
ORIGINAL: shannah
Hmmmm. That is really interesting Jim. I may try to find one of these motors and give it a go. Since the newer packs will be fine running the higher output it shouldn't stress the packs too badly. I will probably want to rework some of my air ducting in order to accomodate the additional cooling required. Seeing as how I am one of the proponents to higher amperage faster flying, it might be worth a shot.
Thanks for the test session in the heat. Now, go back out and do it again.....
Steve
Hmmmm. That is really interesting Jim. I may try to find one of these motors and give it a go. Since the newer packs will be fine running the higher output it shouldn't stress the packs too badly. I will probably want to rework some of my air ducting in order to accomodate the additional cooling required. Seeing as how I am one of the proponents to higher amperage faster flying, it might be worth a shot.
Thanks for the test session in the heat. Now, go back out and do it again.....
Steve
What are the best performing batteries these days? I've been looking at cost and weight and maybe I should be looking at performance.
Jim O
#5
My Feedback: (5)
RE: DualSky 11T testing
I think the V2's are 25C, like most of the Enerland cells. Enerland now has 30C cells and I think the 5000mah packs will be available soon. I like my new Rclipo.com PolyRC 5000's which are 25C Enerlands. I'd like to get the 30C's when they are available. $$$$. I haven't done any inflight measurements since I don't have a Spin or Eagle Tree, but I can sure feel the difference when running the 25C Enerlands.
It would be interesting to compare (consecutive flights in similar conditions) the performance of the TrueRC, FlightPower, and V2's. I think the TrueRC's are rated at 10C, Flightpower is 17C and the V2's are 25C. If the V2's are able to hold up and deliver the power then your numbers should be higher.
Your test results make me wonder whether or not 5000mah will be enough. If your peak remained at 78 amps and you consumed 3800mah then you would be fine with the 25C 5000's. If those numbers increased then you would probably want the higher discharge capacity cells and you would also get close to exceeding 4000mah (80% capacity) per flight on a regular basis. That wouldn't be good for the cells. So, you'd be back looking for 5300 or 5500mah capacity cells. I know that right now, running my Flightpower cells on the 12T with 20x15 APC, I get approx 3900mah consumption on P-09 on days with winds of +10mph and flying big fast maneuvers. That's a lot of time at WOT. The interesting thing is that I burn about the same on my 25C Enerland pack but get much better flight performance. I haven't measured peak RPM or Amperage on the ground, but I'll do that next time out.
With all that said, I'd like to have a little more "reserve power" available for short duration, but as it is I have nothing left when I need it most. What does the RPM look like on the 11T spinning a 20x15 APC? Maybe it would give me that little extra that I need.
It would be interesting to see what the motor design parameters would be and what the power consumption would be if you wanted to spin that 20.5x14 at a 5% higher RPM than what you measured. That would mean having a propulsion system capable of increasing from your measured 6740 to 7077. Then you'd have some real power at your disposal
It would be interesting to compare (consecutive flights in similar conditions) the performance of the TrueRC, FlightPower, and V2's. I think the TrueRC's are rated at 10C, Flightpower is 17C and the V2's are 25C. If the V2's are able to hold up and deliver the power then your numbers should be higher.
Your test results make me wonder whether or not 5000mah will be enough. If your peak remained at 78 amps and you consumed 3800mah then you would be fine with the 25C 5000's. If those numbers increased then you would probably want the higher discharge capacity cells and you would also get close to exceeding 4000mah (80% capacity) per flight on a regular basis. That wouldn't be good for the cells. So, you'd be back looking for 5300 or 5500mah capacity cells. I know that right now, running my Flightpower cells on the 12T with 20x15 APC, I get approx 3900mah consumption on P-09 on days with winds of +10mph and flying big fast maneuvers. That's a lot of time at WOT. The interesting thing is that I burn about the same on my 25C Enerland pack but get much better flight performance. I haven't measured peak RPM or Amperage on the ground, but I'll do that next time out.
With all that said, I'd like to have a little more "reserve power" available for short duration, but as it is I have nothing left when I need it most. What does the RPM look like on the 11T spinning a 20x15 APC? Maybe it would give me that little extra that I need.
It would be interesting to see what the motor design parameters would be and what the power consumption would be if you wanted to spin that 20.5x14 at a 5% higher RPM than what you measured. That would mean having a propulsion system capable of increasing from your measured 6740 to 7077. Then you'd have some real power at your disposal
#6
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DualSky 11T testing
High C is bad for pattern, less useful capacity, and more change in performance during flight....and no guarantee of long cycle life (which is more about cell quality than anything else IMO).
A 15C battery can deliver more power than you will ever need, if you want more push the motor manufacturer to make their motor more efficient. Going to a higher C pack and pushing more W to the motor only results in more heat in the motor, more change in performance during the flight and heavier battery per capacity (low energy density)....none of which you want in an F3A model.
IMO 15C is optimum for F3A.
A 15C battery can deliver more power than you will ever need, if you want more push the motor manufacturer to make their motor more efficient. Going to a higher C pack and pushing more W to the motor only results in more heat in the motor, more change in performance during the flight and heavier battery per capacity (low energy density)....none of which you want in an F3A model.
IMO 15C is optimum for F3A.
#7
Thread Starter
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Chad, the problem is that as far as I can see the C rating seems to be a marketing thing. I haven't been able to get anyone to define how it is established. I have heard that the cells rated high have had poor life and I agree that is not what I want. Consistency is all important in pattern (as we call it in the USA). I noticed in Chris Moon's data, the TrueRC 5000s rated at 10C, had better performance than the FlightPower so that is why I bought them. So far I'm happy with them but a lower voltage drop under high current would help them run cooler and I'm guessing improve everything including their life.
I agree we'd like better efficiency in the motor. I assume you are happy with your system as I recall you had great performance. Do you exceed any ratings? I think you have given us your data in the past but I don't recall if you had temperature included. How hot does your motor get and how hot is too hot?
Steve, I'm thinking that I wasn't really flying a typical pattern as I was stretching up lines just to see how the motor was performing. I had a couple of altitude peaks of over 900 feet. I'd hope that I'd manage the power and use roughly the same capacity just as you mentioned you do with your 25C Enerland pack.
As far as rpm, remember the Spin is reading the peak which is probably in some unloaded condition like pushing over the top. I'll get the rpm on the data logger going and we'll get a better idea of actual performance and maybe we can extrapolate to what it would be with better batteries. I couldn't use my regular spinner on the 11T because it doesn't have a tapped shaft for a spinner bolt. I put a smaller spinner on it and I knew the optical pickup was right on the edge, but it seemed to work in my garage. It didn't in the field.
More to come, Jim
I agree we'd like better efficiency in the motor. I assume you are happy with your system as I recall you had great performance. Do you exceed any ratings? I think you have given us your data in the past but I don't recall if you had temperature included. How hot does your motor get and how hot is too hot?
Steve, I'm thinking that I wasn't really flying a typical pattern as I was stretching up lines just to see how the motor was performing. I had a couple of altitude peaks of over 900 feet. I'd hope that I'd manage the power and use roughly the same capacity just as you mentioned you do with your 25C Enerland pack.
As far as rpm, remember the Spin is reading the peak which is probably in some unloaded condition like pushing over the top. I'll get the rpm on the data logger going and we'll get a better idea of actual performance and maybe we can extrapolate to what it would be with better batteries. I couldn't use my regular spinner on the 11T because it doesn't have a tapped shaft for a spinner bolt. I put a smaller spinner on it and I knew the optical pickup was right on the edge, but it seemed to work in my garage. It didn't in the field.
More to come, Jim
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RE: DualSky 11T testing
Higher rate of change is directly related to higher C rating. Lower C means more consistent battery graphs in regards to voltage drop etc....
Over- simplified explanation there, sorry... short of time and had the thoughts...
Could be completely wrong.
haha
Chuck
Over- simplified explanation there, sorry... short of time and had the thoughts...
Could be completely wrong.
haha
Chuck
#10
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Hi Steve,
I can't give you a good technical reason why it does, but I have been doing e-pattern long enough that I started with 8-10C packs We then went to 13C, 15-17C, now 25C, next will be who knows what. The high C rated packs just do not provide a nice consistent power delivery. They give you buckets of power up front, to the point where its almost difficult to manage, then halfway through the flight it starts to fade....by the 80% mark its completely gone. A good old TP 5300 Prolite wont deliver as much up front, but will deliver MORE at 80% than a 25C pack. I have recorded enough eagle tree data to convince myself that its not just "me" seeing it, but a real event. Since the drop off is more dramatic, a 25C pack will tolerate less capacity loss (age) before it becomes a practice pack...therefore less useful cycle life.
My personal "dream" pack, would be a TP 2100 Prolite cell chemistry, "stretched" to a 2600 mAh cell....and put into a 10s2p config for a 15C 5200 mAh pack.
Jim,
Yes the C rating thing is a bit muddy. I think there should be a defined average voltage to a defined capacity. Say a 25C pack must maintain 25C (of nominal capacity) discharge with an average of 3.5V/cell to 80% of nominal capacity....or something like that. Then you could compare. You would also need to define cell temperature, since that can play a big role in certain cells. Its a real can of worms for certain!
Exceed ratings Oh, I have probably exceeded almost every rating at least once LOL! For heat on the Plettenberg motor......Plettenberg tells me not to worry until I start seeing 80C measured on the outside diameter of the can, I have yet to see it that high. I have been into the low 70's in Muncie but thats it. Internally I think the windings are more critical....most everyone uses Neodymium magnets which roast at around 90-100C, since they are on the can there is good thermal transfer. The varnish on the windings is a different story. I am not sure what Plettenberg uses but its good to at least 120C, as I have seen my windings get that hot You can get varnish that is rated for class H (180C), but I dont know if that is what they are using or not. I think its more likely that the winding insulation will fail on an outrunner before all else.
Plettenberg does not rate the motor, but I have tested it to 100A and almost 4kW statically, and it didn't explode Motor rating is mostly in design, there will be a current at which you are saturated and it just wont do anything after that. On the old 30-10 motor that was around 65A, that was it, no more. The new Evo motor was changed a lot and is capable of a lot more. I am sure someone versed in motor design can explain it a lot better than I can. I do run props (21x15.5) that put me into the 3.3 kW range without trouble. The low 3kW range seems to be the limit that we can get to unless we can increase capacity. You have to be careful when using a setup with that much power as it can drain your battery pretty quick if your foot gets a little heavy
I can't give you a good technical reason why it does, but I have been doing e-pattern long enough that I started with 8-10C packs We then went to 13C, 15-17C, now 25C, next will be who knows what. The high C rated packs just do not provide a nice consistent power delivery. They give you buckets of power up front, to the point where its almost difficult to manage, then halfway through the flight it starts to fade....by the 80% mark its completely gone. A good old TP 5300 Prolite wont deliver as much up front, but will deliver MORE at 80% than a 25C pack. I have recorded enough eagle tree data to convince myself that its not just "me" seeing it, but a real event. Since the drop off is more dramatic, a 25C pack will tolerate less capacity loss (age) before it becomes a practice pack...therefore less useful cycle life.
My personal "dream" pack, would be a TP 2100 Prolite cell chemistry, "stretched" to a 2600 mAh cell....and put into a 10s2p config for a 15C 5200 mAh pack.
Jim,
Yes the C rating thing is a bit muddy. I think there should be a defined average voltage to a defined capacity. Say a 25C pack must maintain 25C (of nominal capacity) discharge with an average of 3.5V/cell to 80% of nominal capacity....or something like that. Then you could compare. You would also need to define cell temperature, since that can play a big role in certain cells. Its a real can of worms for certain!
Exceed ratings Oh, I have probably exceeded almost every rating at least once LOL! For heat on the Plettenberg motor......Plettenberg tells me not to worry until I start seeing 80C measured on the outside diameter of the can, I have yet to see it that high. I have been into the low 70's in Muncie but thats it. Internally I think the windings are more critical....most everyone uses Neodymium magnets which roast at around 90-100C, since they are on the can there is good thermal transfer. The varnish on the windings is a different story. I am not sure what Plettenberg uses but its good to at least 120C, as I have seen my windings get that hot You can get varnish that is rated for class H (180C), but I dont know if that is what they are using or not. I think its more likely that the winding insulation will fail on an outrunner before all else.
Plettenberg does not rate the motor, but I have tested it to 100A and almost 4kW statically, and it didn't explode Motor rating is mostly in design, there will be a current at which you are saturated and it just wont do anything after that. On the old 30-10 motor that was around 65A, that was it, no more. The new Evo motor was changed a lot and is capable of a lot more. I am sure someone versed in motor design can explain it a lot better than I can. I do run props (21x15.5) that put me into the 3.3 kW range without trouble. The low 3kW range seems to be the limit that we can get to unless we can increase capacity. You have to be careful when using a setup with that much power as it can drain your battery pretty quick if your foot gets a little heavy
#11
My Feedback: (5)
RE: DualSky 11T testing
I think capacity really comes into play on the higher c rating packs. If you look at the discharge curves they really dump after 80% discharge when running at the higher amperage loads. So, if you are running a 5000mah 25c pack at an average of 14c then you better not exceed 3900mah consumption. The discharge curves seem to flatten out with the higher discharge rates but the useful capacity also drops off. So, maybe a 25C pack really needs to be 10-15% more capacity than a 15C pack in order to not run short.
I agree that the power curve is very different and since you are running the more powerful pletti I'll bet that the effect is even more exaggerated for you. On my Dualsky I really see the difference. I have about 6 flights on my 25C packs and at first I found it uncontrollable because I was flying it like my 17C FP's. I adjusted the way I fly and try to fly airspeed vs throttle setting. That's hard to do but because the throttle curve isn't quite right. However, I really like the power and find that I have what I need, as long as I don't use up too much up front. I am thinking about setting up a different model type for 25C's so I set up a different throttle curve and maybe change a few other things. It is like putting a different powerplant in the plane.
I agree that the power curve is very different and since you are running the more powerful pletti I'll bet that the effect is even more exaggerated for you. On my Dualsky I really see the difference. I have about 6 flights on my 25C packs and at first I found it uncontrollable because I was flying it like my 17C FP's. I adjusted the way I fly and try to fly airspeed vs throttle setting. That's hard to do but because the throttle curve isn't quite right. However, I really like the power and find that I have what I need, as long as I don't use up too much up front. I am thinking about setting up a different model type for 25C's so I set up a different throttle curve and maybe change a few other things. It is like putting a different powerplant in the plane.
#12
RE: DualSky 11T testing
I am not sure which radio you are using but if it is a Futaba 9Z, 12FG, 12Z or 14MZ, you can just us a different condition for the different batteries. Under the different conditions, everything would be the same except throttle curve which could match the battery type you are using. One condition for 17C and another condtion with a different throttle curve for 25C, etc. No need to change models in the radio, just flip a switch to the correct condition for the battery type.
Don
Don
#13
Thread Starter
RE: DualSky 11T testing
I put three more flights on the 11T on Friday. Looks like it consistently uses more energy than the 12T even though I'm trying to manage the throttle. Capacity used was 3870, 3932, and 3994 mAh on the three flights. The motor temps after the flights were in the 125 to 130F range. The batteries 120 to 125F. Max currents were 72.4, 69.8 (on the old Prolites) and 74.48 Amps. Peak Watts were 2434, 2288 and 2517 respectively. All flights had peak altitudes over 900 Feet at least four times. As I was trying to fly a pattern I'm not sure where the throttle was at any given time. I was trying to stay away from full throttle so I'm not sure what it will ultimately be capable of. During one tall Top Hat with three of four up I climbed from about 125 feet to 978 feet. The rpm just before pull up was 6423 at 60 Amps. About half way up the rpm dropped to 5893 at 71.5 amps. It was then fairly flat in both rpm and current until I throttled back on top.
Next time out I'll do some full throttle up lines and some downlines with and without the brake. I'd expect to see current more like the 77 Amps and rpm to go with it like I saw Wednesday.
Right now I'm thinking I'll stick with the 11T as the numbers look like the motor and batteries should be okay. The increased performance is noticeable.
Jim O
Next time out I'll do some full throttle up lines and some downlines with and without the brake. I'd expect to see current more like the 77 Amps and rpm to go with it like I saw Wednesday.
Right now I'm thinking I'll stick with the 11T as the numbers look like the motor and batteries should be okay. The increased performance is noticeable.
Jim O
#14
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Chad,
Just a small point but I have installed an Evo in a model with a removable belly pan so now the motor isn't out of sight I have started temp. guning it a lot more than I did in my other models - how do you get a reliable IR reading on a shiny metal can?
Malcolm
Just a small point but I have installed an Evo in a model with a removable belly pan so now the motor isn't out of sight I have started temp. guning it a lot more than I did in my other models - how do you get a reliable IR reading on a shiny metal can?
Malcolm
#16
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Yes, I was using the sticker but the max. temp I could get was only 46.5 Deg C. Using my old standby that if u can keep your hand on it its under 50 Deg C and I couldn't - I didn't believe the reading. I will try again next time out.
Malcolm
Malcolm
#17
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DualSky 11T testing
Hi Malcolm
I find that the IR gun usually agrees with the old hand test for my motor, depending on the gun you may have an emissivity setting that you can adjust to compensate for surface reflection.
If it burns your skin when you touch it, then its too hot!!
I find that the IR gun usually agrees with the old hand test for my motor, depending on the gun you may have an emissivity setting that you can adjust to compensate for surface reflection.
If it burns your skin when you touch it, then its too hot!!
#18
Thread Starter
RE: DualSky 11T testing
ORIGINAL: woodie
Jim, your results are very similar to what I have found with the 11T vs the 12T. Basically, I find the 11T to be almost the same as an AXI 5330/F3A. Same amps and rpm during my tests comparing the two. Only difference is the DS is 2 oz lighter. With the higher rpm, you can also back off on the pitch for the 'calm' days and the amps and usage will go down. For really windy, strap on a 20x15 and 'hang on'. ;-) I still prefer the 12T because of the lower amp draw, I can still get plenty of speed out of the motor with more pitch.
Don
Jim, your results are very similar to what I have found with the 11T vs the 12T. Basically, I find the 11T to be almost the same as an AXI 5330/F3A. Same amps and rpm during my tests comparing the two. Only difference is the DS is 2 oz lighter. With the higher rpm, you can also back off on the pitch for the 'calm' days and the amps and usage will go down. For really windy, strap on a 20x15 and 'hang on'. ;-) I still prefer the 12T because of the lower amp draw, I can still get plenty of speed out of the motor with more pitch.
Don
After looking at the data, I decided the high current of the 11T was probably going to mean short life for the batteries. I could see my True RC 5000 with about 60 flights was showing signs of degradation. I know the first day I flew the 11T in the heat the battery got very warm. The 12T with good batteries performs adequately but I can see that with old batteries and wind I would not be satisfied. So right now, unless you get free batteries, it would seem the 12T is better, because the 11T will make your batteries old pretty fast.
Ultimately, two airplanes might be the answer. One with each motor. Fly the 11T only when you really need the added power.
I've attached data from 4 flights. The packs are 1) original TP Prolites 2) TP v2 5000 3) new True RC 5000 4) old True RC 5000- now 69 flights
You can see the old True has lost a step.
Jim O
#19
Thread Starter
RE: DualSky 11T testing
I was hoping some battery guy would tell us that his 5000 mAh 25C packs could take 80 Amp peak currents without degrading the packs. Perhaps this is the reason the 25-30C packs don't last very long. They really aren't 25-30Cs? I'm not picking on the True RC packs because they only claim to be 10C. But what about the rest? Any data to show they can take 25C and last for a few hundred flights?
Jim O
Jim O
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RE: DualSky 11T testing
Jim ... if a pack were to be pushed to its max discharge capability and always charged at 1C, it will give you about 60-70 cycles only. After that the performance is dismal. That is the reality of lipo technology. Read the manufacturer's data carefully, they ran the 200 cycles graph at a very low discharge rate. Many seem to say there is the magical 200 cycle life span for lipos, they however never seem to notice most of the test data was conducted at 2C-5C discharge only with a fading of 75%-80% after 200 cycles.
I have seen ESky El Cheapo packs being used for like 75-90 cycles and they are in good condition ... they were used in low performance set ups, hence they last.
I also noticed that the higher C packs drop off faster at the end. I have EVO20 5S 4,900 and the EVO25 5S 4,900 ... it was so obvious but I have no date to back it and again it might be the condition of the packs, I may have abused the EVO25s more. But I tend to feel the EVO20 running more consistently.
I have tested my 12T and I have 'cogging' issues at high RPM, first was the DS 90A ESC, the factory then tells me they have problems with the software. They gave me store credit. I did try with a HiModel 90A HV but she blew up, the sparks were nice. I am sure with a 20x10 I was only pulling 60A. Anyone know why the cogging at high RPM? Wrong timing setting or ...
I have seen ESky El Cheapo packs being used for like 75-90 cycles and they are in good condition ... they were used in low performance set ups, hence they last.
I also noticed that the higher C packs drop off faster at the end. I have EVO20 5S 4,900 and the EVO25 5S 4,900 ... it was so obvious but I have no date to back it and again it might be the condition of the packs, I may have abused the EVO25s more. But I tend to feel the EVO20 running more consistently.
I have tested my 12T and I have 'cogging' issues at high RPM, first was the DS 90A ESC, the factory then tells me they have problems with the software. They gave me store credit. I did try with a HiModel 90A HV but she blew up, the sparks were nice. I am sure with a 20x10 I was only pulling 60A. Anyone know why the cogging at high RPM? Wrong timing setting or ...
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RE: DualSky 11T testing
I have tested my 12T and I have 'cogging' issues at high RPM, first was the DS 90A ESC, the factory then tells me they have problems with the software. They gave me store credit. I did try with a HiModel 90A HV but she blew up, the sparks were nice. I am sure with a 20x10 I was only pulling 60A. Anyone know why the cogging at high RPM? Wrong timing setting or ...
Now using the Castle Creations 85 HV and it's fine, in spite of frightening over-spec current draw in ground running(So that's kept very brief!)
With the CC 85 HV, that "cogging" you describe went away, with my set-up,by going to the low timing option-which is Castle's advice when using outrunners, and opposite to all the other advice I'd been given.....
The rest of my set-up is FP F3A 5350 lipos,and APC 20.5 X 14-approx 6000rpm WOT,
hauling an11lb Integral about.
I haven't logged the number of flights, but earlier on this year we calculated that on fuel cost comparisons, if three packs would get through a season of FAI class comps and practice, this would be slightly cheaper than the same flights on 30% nitro YS fuel.
So far I've done 5 comps, and,just by watching the flight performance, and seeing how much goes back into the packs(around 3500-3700 mah per 8 minutes),the packs should do the year without problems.
#23
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RE: DualSky 11T testing
Thanks for the reply, looks like we both went through the same thing. I am a keen advocate of branded stuff but was so tempted to try the El Cheapos to see how they hold up. I think cheap 40A-60A esc is ok and for motors its cool too at the medium performance level. Anything more you need to pay for it. My 11T is in a MidWest CAP 232 and its been frustrating that I cannot get much more power out of her because of the cheap ESCs.
How is the Integral? I am keen on that eventually, prob some time early next year. I am undecided about EP and GP. I want max stick time so GP seems good and I do have a YS160 lying about and its still NIB. But if I can I rather go EP. Any chance of seeing how you mounted the outrunner.
How is the Integral? I am keen on that eventually, prob some time early next year. I am undecided about EP and GP. I want max stick time so GP seems good and I do have a YS160 lying about and its still NIB. But if I can I rather go EP. Any chance of seeing how you mounted the outrunner.
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RE: DualSky 11T testing
#25
Thread Starter
RE: DualSky 11T testing
ORIGINAL: f3a05
I'm using the DS 11T, and had similar problems with a fairly cheap ESC blowing up.
Now using the Castle Creations 85 HV and it's fine, in spite of frightening over-spec current draw in ground running(So that's kept very brief!)
With the CC 85 HV, that "cogging" you describe went away, with my set-up,by going to the low timing option-which is Castle's advice when using outrunners, and opposite to all the other advice I'd been given.....
The rest of my set-up is FP F3A 5350 lipos,and APC 20.5 X 14-approx 6000rpm WOT,
hauling an11lb Integral about.
I haven't logged the number of flights, but earlier on this year we calculated that on fuel cost comparisons, if three packs would get through a season of FAI class comps and practice, this would be slightly cheaper than the same flights on 30% nitro YS fuel.
So far I've done 5 comps, and,just by watching the flight performance, and seeing how much goes back into the packs(around 3500-3700 mah per 8 minutes),the packs should do the year without problems.
I have tested my 12T and I have 'cogging' issues at high RPM, first was the DS 90A ESC, the factory then tells me they have problems with the software. They gave me store credit. I did try with a HiModel 90A HV but she blew up, the sparks were nice. I am sure with a 20x10 I was only pulling 60A. Anyone know why the cogging at high RPM? Wrong timing setting or ...
Now using the Castle Creations 85 HV and it's fine, in spite of frightening over-spec current draw in ground running(So that's kept very brief!)
With the CC 85 HV, that "cogging" you describe went away, with my set-up,by going to the low timing option-which is Castle's advice when using outrunners, and opposite to all the other advice I'd been given.....
The rest of my set-up is FP F3A 5350 lipos,and APC 20.5 X 14-approx 6000rpm WOT,
hauling an11lb Integral about.
I haven't logged the number of flights, but earlier on this year we calculated that on fuel cost comparisons, if three packs would get through a season of FAI class comps and practice, this would be slightly cheaper than the same flights on 30% nitro YS fuel.
So far I've done 5 comps, and,just by watching the flight performance, and seeing how much goes back into the packs(around 3500-3700 mah per 8 minutes),the packs should do the year without problems.
Perhaps the low timing holds the current down. Any idea what that might be in terms of degrees? I run 24 degrees on the JETI Spin.
Jim O