Before I got my WindS 110 I was about to use the Hacker on 10S, a few told me the 16x10 will turn at a higher RPM, hence a higher pitch speed for the same amount of thrust compared with an 18" prop. You uplines may need to be faster they say. At the moment, I enjoy the 18" prop with my Scorpion.

There is one more choice (finally) regarding the possible motor for Wind 110. Kontronik is releasing a new line of outrunners Kora Top 40-XX: diam 50mm, length 70mm, shaft 8mm, 525g. and 3 variants of kV 200, 250, 290. The shaft can be put either for front or back mount. The price is in line with AXI 5325 series.</p>

The kV250 would be perfect on Wind 110 with 10S, kV290 with 8S and kV200 is for a 2m plane.</p>

Unfortunately still no info on Kontronik site but I found it on Lindinger : http://shop.lindinger.at/product_info.php?products_id=84693</p>

Velco</p>

Don't forget to check the pattern of the mounting holes. You also may lose the option of having the rear support.

Another nice option would be the AXI 5325.. available in 8s and 10s version.

580 grams.

According to flight reports the 5325 is a viable option for a 2m F3A bird (both the 8s and 10s version), so it should reak havoc on a WindS 110.

2oz heavier than the Hacker and a different mounting pattern. The Wind has a firewall pre-drilled for 25mm spacing and already has the holes drilled for motor cooling; it would be a major pain to get a motor with a different mounting pattern installed.

Not really, it's not that much work. See how Sebart mounts the Hacker inrunner.

It is heavier, but also has more power. The Hacker A50 lacks power.

With A50 my WindS weighs, all up, 4kg. So with the AXI it would weigh 4kg and 80 grams. I don't think that will be any problem.

The Axi swings a 19x12 prop at higher RPM than the A50. The A50 swings an 18x10 max. 18x12 if it's cold outside.

Guys..I got an email from hacker,and they said..like this...and same with you guys has explained to me..

Dear Mr. Okytriwibowo

Thank you very much for your mail. The A50-16l with 10S lipo and the APC-E
16x8 will be a good setup. The current in this setup is ~54A.With more cells/voltage the prop has to be smaler. Otherwise the current
will grow up very high and the motor/esc can be destroyed.

>>> more cells > smaler prop
>>> less cells > larger prop
Best regards.
Within 3 weeks,I can't test my plane flight,due to I have a real schedule flight..
So,after I'm finishing my regular flight..I'll share about my wind s,..

16x8 is too small if you ask me. With 56A you would pull about 2kW.. this engine can handle more.

Keep in mind hacker is always on the safe side. For instance, Sebart includes a 18x12 prop in the standard setup; where Hacker sais in the manual valid props are 14x7 up to 17x10. I'm using an 18x10 and pulling about 2.2kW. With the 18x12 the engine consumes about 2.4kW.

I would buy a 16x12 and a 16x10, then start with the 12 and if the engine heats up to much, swap it for the x10.

An engine isn't 'so and so much watt' or 'can draw so-and-so much amps'. Only fixed thing is the RPM/V. The A50-16L is a 378 RPM/V engine. So for every volt it'll run 378 RPM.

On 8s your theoretical max RPM would be about 3.7 * 8 * 378 ~ 11.000 RPM. Since engines are never 100% efficient, you won't get this RPM. Let's say you're running it at 80% efficiency then you'd get something like 8900 RPM.

On 10s the theoretical max would be about 3.7*10 * 378 ~ 14.000 RPM. At 80% efficiency, this would leave about 11.000 RPM.

Anyone can understand that it takes more power to swing a certain prop at 11.000 RPM than at 8900 RPM. This is why you need to reduce prop size, because otherwise you'd overload the engine.

The only thing that is real important in this matter, is engine temperature. If you try the 16x8 and the engine stays cool, then you can use a bigger prop.

With the 18x12 my engine heated up to about 65 degrees centigrade, measured with a digital infrared thermometer. Though this isn't too much yet, this was at an outside temperature of about 20 degrees centigrade, so in the summer the engine would have run too hot. With the 18x10 it stays below 50 degrees centigrade.

It's simple to test. Directly after flying, touch your engine and keep touching it. If you can't, it's too hot. Don't do this by running it on the ground, the load in the air is different, so is the cooling.

Guys....yesterday I email hacker,and today they reply my email...
Thank you very much for your mail. The A50-16l with 10S lipo and the APC-E
16x8 will be a good setup. The current in this setup is ~54A.
With more cells/voltage the prop has to be smaler. Otherwise the current
will grow up very high and the motor/esc can be destroyed.

>>> more cells > smaler prop
>>> less cells > larger prop
Best regards
-OKY-
Note:
Within 3 weeks,I have regular a schedule flight,so I can't share how my setup works.
.

Can a motor with 63mm diameter (like 5325) be installed on the Wind 110? It would be great news if that is the case, together with 19x12 if there is no clearance issue.

Ooopppsss....sorry for double posting,
Thank you very much hezik..your explanation was very..very clear..

Anything over 53mm you have to start cutting the motor support. 63mm will risk the motor can rubbing the bottom of the plane or 'floor'.

To be honest, you got me there.. it won't fit right out of the box, you would have to remove some material to get it to fit.. but I think it could be done.

Don't buy one if you're not into risks

Unfortunately I am not into risks .</p>

That is why I wrote "finally" in my post about Kontronik motor because it is only the 2nd (after Scorpion) outrunner on the market with diameter of 50mm and adequate kV for propper 10S application. "Just" the mounting holes of Kontronik are different, at 30mm instead of 25mm!</p>

Unfortunately the price of Kontronik is in line with AXI and not with Scorpion, and when looking at the price of Kora Top 40-XX series it doesn't look justified as Kontronik is asking 100Eur plus from 30 to 40 series and only +5Eur from 20 to 30 series (all are of the same diameter of 50mm, only the length is different).

Again, getting a S4035 is really not easy, nowhere to be found on stock, especially the 250kV version!</p>

One more thing I have noticed about Kontronik is that they are the only manufacturer giving max power of a certain motor in relation to revs: higher revs, better cooling, more power. For example Kora Top 30-XX: 5.000 revs 650W linear up to 10.000 revs and 1.300W. Interesting info that definitively can be applied also for the other manufacturers as the logic is the same.</p>

Another motor that will fit is the NEU 19XX series. They are inrunners, but very high torque for direct drive applications. They are available overseas.

http://www.neumotors.com/Site/1900_series.html

http://www.neumotors.com/Site/Where_to_buy.html

Thanks Joe for measuring the size of the servo well.

I plan to use the Futaba S9551 for the ailerons, which are 41mm x 20mm, so sound like they will fit.



Hezik,

You mentioned you have unlimited verticle with your setup. By that do you mean that the Wind accelerates while traveling up perfectly verticle? Have you made RPM measurements with the various prop and battery combinations (e.g. 18x10 w/8S, etc.)? What is the final weight of your Wind?

Yes it will accelerate, also has a reasonable pull out when hovering. I have measured RPM with 18x12 and 18x10, but to be honest I don't know those numbers anymore. Will remeasure next time.

I'm flying with Zippy Flightmax batteries which are among the best non-G3 batteries. Haven't compared batteries in this bird, these do fine. I have 20C and 30C batteries and it makes no difference. I would get slightly more power if i were to use Hyperion lipo's, but financially the Zippies are better. My oldest pack has close to 200 cycles on it and though it doesn't have the original 'oemph' anymore, it's still sufficient. I expect to get somewhere like 250 cycles on it before retiring it.

Keep in mind that unlimited vertical is NOT the benchmark for F3A. Try flying a looping in strong winds..

My 30C 4S 2,500 Flightmax bloated after one cycle. My system is only pulling a mere 55A WOT. I seen many failures with my friends and they know what they do. Oh well ...

I am not looking for unlimited verticle, it has no meaning as you mentioned. What I'm interested in is verticle acceleration throughout the routines. By the way what is you final weight including batteries and how much do your batteries weigh?

It will accelerate vertically, but if you want perfection, you would need slightly more power than the Hacker A50 has.. and I'm a pretty slow flyer, ppl who like to fly with a higher average speed will notice it more. Level flight is at about 1/5 to 1/4 throttle. Vertical at about 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.

AUW including everything is exactly 4kg. I have 2 types of batteries, Zippy Flightmax 5000mAh 8s 25C and Zippy Flightmax 5000mAh 8s 35C to be exact.

The 25C pack weighs 996 grams. The 35C packs weigh around 1035 grams (1034 and 1038). The 4kg weight is with the 25c pack.

I'm really happy with these packs. The easily outperform Flightpower and Thunderpower packs (the non G3 versions), at a very low price. Also they last long enough to make them an almost unbeatable deal. When used normally at least 250 cycles should be possible. Also their weight is 'on par'.

Rest of the setup:

Hacker A50-16L
Hacker master basic opto 90 (not a good ESC because of very limited break settings)
Puretech battery straps (I love 'm)
Assan 7 channel 2.4Ghz receiver (Futaba FF9 transmitter)
Futaba BLS 451 on rudder
4x Futaba S9650, 2x on ailerons, 2x on elevators
Graupner VR, 5A/25A (cont/max)
Graupner (Kokam) 2s 1000mAh
APC-E 18x10

I used the hardware in the kit, only thing I changed is that I use MK ball-beared links.

This setup has not let me down so far.

If you can pay close attention, you can see what I mean in this vid of a flight of my last contest. This is the dutch intermediate schedule, will fly P11 coming seazon. It was flown in about 20kts winds (a strong 5bft), slightly cross. You can clearly see the plane slowing down on loopings. Don't pay too much attention to the flying, this was my 'scrap-flight'. The wind blows from left to right on the video. The effect is most clearly seen on the 2 loopings with integrated half roll over top 45 degrees. I'm flying full throttle when you see it slow down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q1ZN...layer_embedded

Looked at the video, it looks like with 20kts you have just enough the right amount of power.

I bought a Castle ICE 100SB, hopefully this ESC will give sufficient braking. Any recommendations on what percentage to set the braking?

I still have not tried it my self as I just got my first ESC (spin 99) with progressive braking, but I have managed to find the setting from a top F3A pilot, he starts at 43% and finishes at 63%.

Trust me, in reality it's close but not 'the right amount'. 5% more and it would have been perfect.

Might just be what you'd get out of the Scorpion 4025 on 8S. People really seem to like that setup.

The Turnigy SK engine is also a good deal. I have seen it fly and it has just a little more power and stays cooler generally. Also it's possible to fit that in exactly the same manner as the Hacker, including the back bearing.

Only downside to that engine is that after purchase you have to check it; are all the magnes glued correctly, and so on. But if you give it some care before first usage, it's a better engine for the WindS 110 than the Hacker.. and that for like 35~40 dollar.