mr.scale

My Feedback: (4)

hi guys,I been reading this thread for a while now, and it seems to me that to get this plane to fly right, a guy needs to spend another 100 bucks or so. My question is, if i get the A-10 what else i will need to buy if i decide to keep the stock fans? will i need to get a 3s lipo 1400 and call it good for starters?
thanks

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I think it was posted already few times - and my experience is the same: Stock fans are not balanced (or maybe even they don't run true) so the plane sounds like Formula-1 car not a jet. Of course performance suffers too.
Stock motos (370 brushed) don't provide enough power to rune fans at useful speed. Increasing the voltage to 11V (3sLiPo) doesn't do much good and I don't expect these motors last (they are getting very hot fast).

So the main problem with this plane is not sufficient propulsion. If you don't want to spend such amount of money and replace motors (plus ESC and battery) I suggest you to:

1. remove following parts: motors, fans, ESC battery, all landing gears and front servo (steering for front wheel);
2. Replace radio with something better quality (or leave it as is if you don't mind loosing the plane without a reason);
3. Convert original battery pack (8s AAA NiMh) into two Rx battery packs (4s AAA NiMh);
4. Enjoy flying this plane on a slope as a slope glider.

mr.scale

My Feedback: (4)

rysium, thanks for the quik response. which motors,esc and lipo combo that nitro planes sell that will fit this plane without spending an arm and a leg?. I alreay have the electron 6 and 2 h-55's servos.

(does anyone wants to sell his/her A-10 with or without gear. I'm interested!!!)

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I posted my combo [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7077307/mpage_5/key_/tm.htm#]at post 89[/link]. You may use 3s LiPo instead of VPX battery and if you don't want insane power for 3s LiPo you may use motors at the same size but lower Kv (3600 will do).

As for "arm'n leg" you need to figure out what works for you. I have published quite detail technical solution for reasonable cost using common hobby suppliers but as market goes on, preferences, prices and availabilities are changing every day. So you need to do your homework for yourself

scorchy72

Well, alright then. I've read the thread from beggining to end. Clearly, the earlier model with brushed motors is not the way to go.
I'm seriously thinking of buying the "new & improved" version with brushless motors.
It's the A10 Thunderbolt II w/EDF and brushless motors from BannanaHobby. . No
one has posted a comment about this model yet. Anyone have any experience with this one?
Thx

Razgriz Ace

Hi guys,
It took me two months, but I finally finished the thread.I already went and got the old Guanli A-10.I've been flying props for a while now, but this is my first time with a DF.I was on a budget so I got this.Who could resist for $80? I've started assembly but mine didn't come with the screws for the rear landing gears so I used the glue that came with it..I put the stock battery on charge and forgot it there.It charged for the whole night.The next morning, the poor NimH battery was fried.I am sort of a newbie.I mostly flew RTFs and since the battery was fried, I need a new one.I was thinking of a 11 V 1500 mAh Li-po battery pack ( [link]http://www.nitroplanes.com/111515cercfu.html ) I haven't bought it yet, and looking at the picture the jack doesn't look like it matches the one coming from the ESC.Anybody know if they will fit or anyway to make them fit.I'm going to try it on the brushed motors and I'll have results soon.Will this battery create any balance problems? I think the six-bladed fan may create more thrust than the GWS one so it might take off.Also, the thing that the pushrod on the aileron connect to are too close to the servo.It makes them both pushed down on neutral. It looks like flaps.When you try a turn, one goes level and the other stays down.Anybody else with that problem?The hole in the wing and the hole in the fuselage aren't lined up either, so I can't get the screw to go in.Did I get a defected one?

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I think you got 80-dollars toy [:@]. However do not treat it as a toy - if not setup and handled properly it still can do some damages (even it is styro). I think you should have all answers regarding setup in the reading material you just went through.

Unfortunately this RTF can not be compared to "real" RTF like some real planes (for example from Parkzone). Guanli is a startup point for scratch builders and experienced fliers. I think you should already know that from the reading here. This plane can give a lot of fun not only for pilots but for builders first. After 80+ dollars more and hours of building you will be able enjoy flying it - but only if you overcome all problems with the plane (everybody has different problems with it). That includes not only power system but radio, sometimes servos, or control linkages. (like you have). If you are looking for the real RTF such as "buy, charge and fly", look for something else. Guanli's RTF stands for "Ready To Fix"

pbr51

i dont know about using an 11.1. i was using one of the motors that came with the plane (removed the motors to put in a brushless system) to discharge an 11.1 i had and it got burnt out! so the motors might beable to handle it if you keep the throttle trim all the way to the bottom. but it could still burn out. and i would try to re adjust your aileron link problems (move the clevis in and out by turning it, re adjust the servo arm) and as far as the wing goes i would try to move it intil it fits.

aginzu

I tried 11.1V with the stock motors once. It still barely had enough power to fly and was not really usable. RysiuM is correct. The only solution for this bird is to go brushless. Once you do that it's actually a pretty nice airplane with good looks and good flying characteristics.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Actually what i found with BL motors Kv=4040 at 11.1V (3s LiPo) the power is insane[X(]. At 3s A123 it flies very comfortable. I did not try 2s LiPo but I think it may not be enough power for comfortable flying. I'm talking about the brushless setup all the time. Trying to run it on original brushed motors (370 class) and original fans (out of center, out of balance) is just a waste of time, effort and frustration.

aginzu

I am flying mine on 3S and two KV=4400 motors and it flies well, but I wouldn't call it "insane". Will yours climb vertically?

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

I did not try that trick because as soon as I realized what's going on I backed off to 1/4 throttle. What motors (size, type)do you have?

Razgriz Ace

I don't know whether this the toy or not, but this it it: [link]http://www.nitroplanes.com/new204chathi1.html Anyway, i fixed the screw problem. What should I do about the battery though? They don't off spares, and i don't want another NimH either.

aginzu

See my configuration from the previous post.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7882542

I actually fly it with the throttle travel reduced to about 2/3 on the transmitter end point adjustment in order to limit the maximum current to 18 amps per battery so I can fly it with the TP 1320's. In theory I could go to full throttle on the Zippy 1000's (25 amps) but I haven't tried it. The plane takes off with a short roll (see video in the post below) and does loops and rolls pretty well. It won't go vertical, however.

cyclops2

A-10 repair depot...

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

RCU is so slow today.... took me a while till I found you are using HTX-4400 (are they 2435 ?). I wonder why you don't have vertical if calculated thrust is over 450g from one motor (total you should have 2 lb what is more than the plane weight) this is at 11V a bit over 250W in per motor.

cyclops2

He may be operating in a very inefficient point of the power curve. Losses can drop to 60 % just like a propellor setup. That would eat the 250 watts with little increase of thrust.

pbr51

like RysiuM and many others said; the only way to get it to work is to go brushless. if you ran dual 3600 kv you could get away with a 1400 15C 3s. i will be running mine on a 2200 20c however. and depending where you get the stuff from you can get it all from nitro planes for around $130(motors, speed controls, battery) and about $20 for the fan rotors and y connector and extintions(if needed). all the way up to over $200 if you buy e-flite motors.

aginzu

I suspect it's because I am limiting current to about 16 amps. The voltage drops to about 11V producing less than 180 watts per motor. I have found that with ducted fans it takes about twice the power to get performance similar to a prop plane of the same weight. This is because the exhaust velocity (pitch speed) is much faster than the plane so that power goes into moving lots of air instead of the plane, greatly reducing efficiency. Vertical performance with my setup might be possible if I allow it to go to the full 25 amps for a total of about 500 watts.

Have you measured how much current you are pulling on yours at full throttle?

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, It is 20A per motor. It is just over 400W total. It is scary. That's like putting OS LA 25 on that piece of styro. I had 36inch span at 2lb ME-109 with Magnum 15. It flew very well (one day I will fix that wing). So comparing to that 400W on this piece of foam it is something I call "insane".

canwhitewolf

theres another tool that aginzu posted to the forum for removing rotors and that is post 364, it may be usefull

lucygee

This is really a heating thread. i really got a lot from your discussion. im new here. hope you join my topics in the near future.[font="Times New Roman"]

cyclops2

This is a great A-10 thread.

I always build to the LIGHTEST possible weight I can figue out. So I come up with power systems that are running at VERY LIGHT loadings. Known as...... at or under 16 oz. / sq. ft. This allowed the use of 2 EDF 40 fans. Insane !!! Man, you are nuts!

Maybe.........Always more than 1 way to accomplish any task or problem.
I am 71 and can ALMOST run along side my Hog in the landing approach. Lighter is better for white foams. More powerfull moter. Stronger EVERYTHING. .....HEAVIER everything.

When to add any weight & power,,,,,, You are now RESPONSIBLE for a complete redesign.

ALWAYS FLY at a field that has DEEP grass to land in. No permanate landing gear always looks better in flight.

My 2 cents

Razgriz Ace

Hi,
I'm thinking about going brushless. I'm trying to find some cheaper ones, but I don't want low quality.I'll get a brushless ESC soon too but i'll stick with a new batt for now.Anybody have weight issue with a 4.6 ounce lipo?

cyclops2

I do not & I have 4 LIFEPO4 1300 mahr PVX cells in a GWS A-10. They weigh 6 oz.