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Electronic solutions to modifying glow engines of all sizes to gasoline

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Electronic solutions to modifying glow engines of all sizes to gasoline

Old 08-04-2022, 08:21 AM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Looks like I have successfully made a deal on a ASP FT160. seller agreed on a good price and engine comes with a Sullivan Dual Glow driver (which I won't use) and a custom Keleo exhaust (cub style). Apparently only 4 bench runs and proper shutdown and storage post runs.
Can't wait to run a boxer..
See how that Keleo responds to gas, as I recall they have thick wall long alloy tubing, ID is much smaller than the thin wall stainless headers.
Old 08-04-2022, 03:40 PM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Can't wait to run a boxer..
Pretty sure you'll love it.... there's something magical about their rhythm and sound...
Old 08-05-2022, 05:34 AM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by 1967brutus View Post
Pretty sure you'll love it.... there's something magical about their rhythm and sound...
I can't wait Bert, Owned or maintained many a boxer over the years - First car was a 65 VW bug. A lot of time wrenching and running Continentals and Lycomings. We had quite a fleet of Piper PA-31's and running and testing the fuel injected/turbo'ed TIO-540's was always a treat as they made great power and sounded so mean when the boost came on.. I actually have 3 bodies and Many engines for a mid 60's Chevrolet Corvair project I might get at one day. Looking forward to this one - Deal is done and it on its way.

My plan (right now) is to explore the possibility of making a TBI carb for it - Looks doable from what I can see in Pics as to the arrangement. Think a pressure regulator might be in the cards to to allow the tank to be placed up higher because of the low carb - but that could depend on the install I guess. Think I might try it out first on the Scratch build (ugly stick-ish) being done for the Supertiger 20cc - Planning a universal mounting to be able to swap Power plants. Then maybe something "Cub-ish"
Old 08-05-2022, 09:27 AM
  #279  
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A Baby Ace is kind of a unique airframe, its cubish in appearance. I have enough high wing models, or I would go with Paolo's Baby Ace, nice bit of kit that is, spendy though... Plans are in jpj photo format, downloadable for free, so are most of his plans, except for the 37.5% tiger moth plans, they are scaled down from the full scale drawings.

https://www.paoloseverin.it/BabyAce/BabyAce.html
Old 08-05-2022, 09:56 AM
  #280  
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oh man, make 3 or 4 tbi carbs and send some to bert and me. (i'm kidding, sort of.)

Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
I can't wait Bert, Owned or maintained many a boxer over the years - First car was a 65 VW bug. A lot of time wrenching and running Continentals and Lycomings. We had quite a fleet of Piper PA-31's and running and testing the fuel injected/turbo'ed TIO-540's was always a treat as they made great power and sounded so mean when the boost came on.. I actually have 3 bodies and Many engines for a mid 60's Chevrolet Corvair project I might get at one day. Looking forward to this one - Deal is done and it on its way.

My plan (right now) is to explore the possibility of making a TBI carb for it - Looks doable from what I can see in Pics as to the arrangement. Think a pressure regulator might be in the cards to to allow the tank to be placed up higher because of the low carb - but that could depend on the install I guess. Think I might try it out first on the Scratch build (ugly stick-ish) being done for the Supertiger 20cc - Planning a universal mounting to be able to swap Power plants. Then maybe something "Cub-ish"
Old 08-05-2022, 11:21 AM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Think I might try it out first on the Scratch build (ugly stick-ish) being done for the Supertiger 20cc - Planning a universal mounting to be able to swap Power plants. Then maybe something "Cub-ish"
Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
A Baby Ace is kind of a unique airframe, its cubish in appearance.
Mine is on a MultiPlex BigLift, and it is as if this plane is specifically designed for a gassified ASP Twin...

Plans can be found on outerzone
Old 08-05-2022, 01:03 PM
  #282  
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Unhappy supply "chain" nonsence...

Got a letter today from the local post services informing about the import duty/vat.. The same i already payed online last monday.
Also farnell (electronics parts supply company) showed to have 5 of the pico pi wifi version in stock for about 6 each.
Ordered 3 of them (shipping is only 4) and the way things are going likely will get those before the ones from the uk...
In the end there should be 2 normal and 4 wifi versions to play with.
Old 08-05-2022, 01:42 PM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by 1967brutus View Post
Mine is on a MultiPlex BigLift, and it is as if this plane is specifically designed for a gassified ASP Twin...

Plans can be found on outerzone
Whats the weight of that big lift Bert... My J3 is just over 20.5 lbs ready to fly... the160 flies it a bit better than scale, its not under powered, but enough power to do the basic aerobatics.
Old 08-05-2022, 04:16 PM
  #284  
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Big lift is a nice looking Aircraft.... Thinking a nice running boxer belongs on a scale job sticking out of the cowl - but maybe not

Really like the Baby Ace that John sent too - Love the metal work....

Dave, If the TBI conversion carb works well, I can probably make a few copies..

Bert and All - how are you fuel tanks arranged with the low carb of a boxer?
Old 08-05-2022, 05:23 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
Whats the weight of that big lift Bert... My J3 is just over 20.5 lbs ready to fly... the160 flies it a bit better than scale, its not under powered, but enough power to do the basic aerobatics.
About 15 lbs or so, and that is with 40 years of grime and repairs, AND the pretty heavy Boxer and ignition etc. It has decent power for towing on gas, on glowfuel it would be downright overpowered for normal flight, but excellent for towing.



Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Big lift is a nice looking Aircraft....
It is, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Bert and All - how are you fuel tanks arranged with the low carb of a boxer?
Mine has the tank (250 ml/8 oz, standard tank from a Calmato 40 I believe) centered at HS needle height, which is fairly easy on the BigLift as it has a pretty roomy nose and the tank being small because of "gasoline is frugal" helps of course.
I use muffler pressure from both pipes connected via T-piece. Zero crud. The craptrap is there but never emptied in 5 years...There has to be about 7 or 8 gallons of fuel through it I guess...
Old 08-05-2022, 05:45 PM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by 1967brutus View Post
About 15 lbs or so, and that is with 40 years of grime and repairs, AND the pretty heavy Boxer and ignition etc. It has decent power for towing on gas, on glowfuel it would be downright overpowered for normal flight, but excellent for towing.
Thats about what the Sig cub weighed back in 94 when I first built up the kit... it was built as per the book, and I installed the saito FA130TD twin in it... that was a strong running setup, but the OS boxer looks more the part, like in that Baby Ace... Those OS rocker covers sticking out the cowl, just suits the model. An ASP boxer would look just as nice.

https://www.paoloseverin.it/BabyAce/...1000-full.html

Cat, Paolo's models are probably the best of best, cream of the crop... and to give the plans away for free, shows his luv for the hobby... On Paolo's website, he has a video of the first built and flown 37.5% Tiger Moth, what a plane that is.!

https://www.paoloseverin.it/photos-4/TMhome.html

Last edited by John_M_; 08-05-2022 at 05:48 PM.
Old 08-05-2022, 08:34 PM
  #287  
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Thought my "Gas and Carb" friends would like to see the visitor I had in my shop for the last few days - Apparently there are no garages around here that know how to work on these anymore as they can't figure out where the OBD plugs in.- The owner found me "through the grapevine" as an "Old Guy who knows how to work on them" . She's runnin like a top and sounds so nice with he chambered side pipes - Just a "baby" V8 but makes that beautiful sound!!!



Old 08-06-2022, 12:25 AM
  #288  
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LOVE it....What a beauty!
Old 08-06-2022, 05:05 AM
  #289  
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Chris,

On my stand the carb of the 120 was centerline of the tank. In the rv8 it's about the same with the 120 and the 160., maybe a bit closer to the bottom of the tank.

If you're going to build a model, have you considered a fly baby? You'd get a low wing and exposed heads, a great combination.

​​​​​I Recall you had a hall sensor brackets 3d model. Can you share the file, please?

Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Big lift is a nice looking Aircraft.... Thinking a nice running boxer belongs on a scale job sticking out of the cowl - but maybe not

Really like the Baby Ace that John sent too - Love the metal work....

Dave, If the TBI conversion carb works well, I can probably make a few copies..

Bert and All - how are you fuel tanks arranged with the low carb of a boxer?
Old 08-06-2022, 07:38 AM
  #290  
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...by the way, if you do make extra carbs, I insist on giving you some money for it this time.
Old 08-06-2022, 12:01 PM
  #291  
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Nice Vett, that reminded me of auto shop back in my school years. Best way to keep their value to keep them in cherry restored condition... although a roots protruding through the hood wouldn't look half bad.
Old 08-06-2022, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by John_M_ View Post
... although a roots protruding through the hood wouldn't look half bad.
That it would John...

Thank for all the Boxer info gentlemen... Can wait to get my hands on it and start tinkering - Just realized I will have get a dual ignition coming - All mine are singles...

Quite a few options for a nice "Exposed cylinder" aircraft - Skywalker is another I guess - Mooney Mite would be cute too and you get to have retracts...

Chris
Old 08-07-2022, 12:34 AM
  #293  
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Originally Posted by Cat 1 View Post
Just realized I will have get a dual ignition coming - All mine are singles...
Keep in mind that there are two different types of dual ignition: the "dual fire" and the "single fire". The Dual fire is intended for odd firing and V-twins, the single fire is for even firing twins.
They are identifiable by the number of wires to the Hall sensor, you want the one with only 3 wires.
Old 08-07-2022, 03:52 AM
  #294  
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Default Suitable conversion engine question

Just a thought but gasoline engines run at lower compression then glow right?
So would it be possible to revive a worn glow engine converting it ?
There are also likely manny engines with crash damaged carbs that can be revived with the solenoid system.

Time to start asking club members to dig trough there broken engines piles?
Old 08-07-2022, 05:34 AM
  #295  
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Originally Posted by cmulder View Post
Just a thought but gasoline engines run at lower compression then glow right?
Not necessarily. CR varies among glow engines to their state of tune, and intended Nitro content, gasoline engines also vary in CR (mainly just their state of tune, but also a bit for intended Octane rating). Those ranges overlap widely, and only if you look at the averages, glow appears to have a slightly higher CR "in general". There are glow engines with CR 8:1 and there are gassers doing 12:1 or higher.
Nearly all glow engines CAN be operated on gasoline without modifications to CR, although sometimes on rare occasions it IS necessary.
Heck, I ran Rossi's on methanol and spark and had to reduce CR because they would continue running with a switched off ignition...
Originally Posted by cmulder View Post
So would it be possible to revive a worn glow engine converting it ?
Nope... it does not work that way. CR is a geometric design parameter and an engine being worn does not lower its CR.
EDIT: going a bit deeper into that.
First, lets assume that an engine has a CR that would result in a theoretical compression pressure of 16 bar, but it is so worn out that at 1000 RPM only 8 bar is achieved.
That would mean that at 2000, when there is half the time availlable for leakage, allready compression end pressure would be 12 bar, at 4000 RPM there would be 14 bar, at 8000 RPM there would be 14 bar, etch etc etc.
So that does not work that way. (the numbers are not real, chosen for convenient calculating. The calculation is also not 100% correct, merely to demonstrate the idea).
second: the loss of piston seal means that hot combustion gasses are leaking between piston and liner, and this happens very violently. It damages the oil film and would, especially with gasoline (higher temperatures, less oil) lead to scuffing.
A worn engine is simply worn and needs new parts.

Originally Posted by cmulder View Post
There are also likely manny engines with crash damaged carbs that can be revived with the solenoid system.
That is, apart from the CR discussion, certainly an option.

Originally Posted by cmulder View Post
Time to start asking club members to dig trough there broken engines piles?
That never is a bad Idea, you never know what you can make out of it, and one mans trash is another mans treasure...

Last edited by 1967brutus; 08-07-2022 at 09:34 AM.
Old 08-07-2022, 09:26 AM
  #296  
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That Mooney Mite is an interesting looking aircraft, certainly unique... I don't know what it is about it that seems odd, maybe its the engine being exposed.... its got the Mooney lines to it, but typically they have fully cowled engines.
Old 08-07-2022, 09:37 AM
  #297  
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That indeed is a cute looking little plane. Never heard of it or saw one before, but definitely interesting.
Old 08-07-2022, 11:09 AM
  #298  
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A 1/4 scale Savage Bobber would be another candidate for the 160 boxer... its an open tube airframe, kind'a cute.

Old 08-07-2022, 11:14 AM
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Another one I came across is the Corby Starlet - Its early versions are exposed engine but most ended up with a nice cowl..

The savage Bobber would be neat also and could show off some trick tubing work.

Old 08-07-2022, 11:44 AM
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That's a nice looking plane also, but you're wavering from the cubish look.

That Bobber is a new release, pre-order only... they want the best part of $1000 if you buy the optional seats & baggage kit... I'd go for the 1/3 scale Bobber from Zein's website, its a better deal all around... But definitely a unique conversation piece.

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