venomxx

DKey came in today, I finished the RCD dongle programmer. I noticed when I plug it in, the LCD turns on the goes off. I tried to program with mikcro Pic programmer but it didnt do anything?

What suppose to happen during the process of programming ? Atleast the comp slows down or something ?

Could someone help.

venomxx

I got it to work
Using a diff. program though: WinPicProgrammer

venomxx

u,mmm well I thought i had it working, the LED on the programmer blinks but it doesn't program and gave me a programming error.

Pilot had some issues with the RCD programmer before... what did u do to fix it ? I built the RCD Dongle type.

venomxx

one last post before i go to sleep..it is 3am here.

On the programmer, it reads okay but when programming it got errors. im like
Should I just build another programmer ?
this really stunk.

jpanhalt

I can't help you much with that programmer, as I have never used it. I use PicStart Plus. Are you doing the 16F628 or 628A chip and using JMJ_Bigboat's exact program or something you have modified? The reason I ask is that if you are ready to go, except for the chip -- that is you have the boards built and transformer working -- I could send you a programmed chip (I'll have to check what I have) for the current Digikey price. Or, if you are not completely ready and have more time to wait, just sent me your chip, and I will return it to you with that program burned in it.

There are probably several people in your area who would be willing to do the same thing. Even local colleges or high school technical classes can do them for you. It takes less time to program a chip than to respond to some postings. Good luck. John

Bigboat

The RCD programmer can't handle the voltage you need to program.
Thats not the problem of the programmer, but the condition of the com-port from your computer.
New computers don't have anymore the voltage of the old computers.
Use the batterie supply (4x 1.5V) of your CDI (pcb) to programm the pic.
Thats why we make the *in circuit programming* pcb.
You only need the dataleads of the RCD-programmer.

venomxx

gMORNING

...Rob! UGGH! lol im going crazy, jk.

Well, what I did was I built the dongle first. I was going to make sure the program loads successfully before I build the CDI circuits. So what you are saying is I could program the chip the CDI circuit without having to use an external programmer ?

Or I have to make that PCB board labeled Programming from your old CDI site?

venomxx

I got 3 chips here, they are 16F628. I just wanna build a programmer so that in the future I can play around with some PIC projects.

Well, the programmer reads it okay but when programming it gives 17errors and stopped. So if I want to attach the batteries, where would i connect ?

here's the schematic:

Bigboat

You need the programmer, also with the *ICP* CDI-pcb.
BUT, on the ICP CDI-pcb will be a connector for the RCD-programmer.
You only have to put 4 wires on the ICP- CDI-pcb to program the pic.
You have to use the batterie voltage of you CDI-powersupply and NOT the voltage of the RCD-programmer.

You can also program the pic without the ICP CDI-pcb.
But......you stil need a powersupply becourse your programmer don't have enough voltage to programm the pic's.
Thats not the fault of the programmer, but from your computer.

Bigboat

BTW, we (JM and I) are building a new programmer who can handle more differned pic's
It will work on USB-port and don't need an extra powersupply.
But everything takes time to designe, test and make one.

venomxx

--------------

Bigboat,

so according to this PCB, which is the new CDI from your site, which pins will I be working with ?

venomxx

u know what, imma build the CDI circuit today then we'll see.

BTW,
is this the new schematic or the Old one ?
...i'm having everything all mixed up again.


if so, the IC3(LP2950CZ) which side will it face ? The part I have from Digikey looks like a transitor (BC557)

Bigboat

This is how I gone doit.
I use only 4 leads, 1 ground and 3 data

venomxx

Just 4 pins to program ? hmm Looking nice.

Bigboat

Just 4 pins to program IF you use the ICP -CDI-pcb AND the batterie powersupply of the ICP CDI-pcb.
Put the flatconnector to your ICP CDI-pcb, but be carefull how the pins and connector must connected !

jpanhalt

Certainly the system used by Bigboat is nice for ICP, as are many of the alternative systems, particularly if you do in-circuit programming frequently. For myself, I simply use short wires from my PICStart Plus to the approporiate pens of the PIC that is in-circuit. Generally, the circuit will need to be powered up with its own supply or battery, because the PICStart cannot provide much power, and you need to use a common ground with the programmer. Microchip refers to it as in-circuit serial programming (ICSP) and provides specific information on how to do it in its datasheets. Go to microchip.com and search on ICSP. John

venomxx

on the PCB, there are a total of 5 pins to program. which one of them isn't needed ?


1st or 5th pin from top..

Bigboat

From top
1e - ground
2e - not used
3e - programmer - MCLR
4e - programmer - RB6
5e - programmer - RB7

venomxx

Im 1/3 way done with the circuit. Still missing the big Capacitor on the transformer side and I gotta go to RadioShack for some resistors...the ones i ordered from Dkeys are the thin types for heat soldering..ugh! hate it!

I got another question to ask. When i'm programming this board, im assuming I have to chop the PCB board in half ? will it function if I dont cut it ?

Electrical shock and my hair going to stand up straight going to happen ? lol

Bigboat

You can leave the pcb as it is to one pcb.
If you want a small sandwitch pcb, you can cut the pcb.

venomxx

aww you guys! I forgot to get the TIL111 transistor! Where can I pull one from fast ? ... radio parts? printers ? power supply?...ugh!
Almost complete except for a few minor things.

What is L4 on the layout? and the other question mark...UMP means Jumper ?

jpanhalt

I'm trying to get you something to play with for the weekend. These are work around suggestions. Results may vary

Both items you mention are to reduce the electrical noise from the high-power side of the circuit from getting into the PIC side of the circuit. For the TIL111, I would use a 4N35, which might be more common in the USA. If I were desparate, I would try a simple NPN small signal switching transistor such as a 2N2222 or 2N3904 as a temporary measure. Connect the collector and emitter as shown. Connect the base to R2. Do not connect the base directly to ground, or it won't work. If it turns on, but not off, then put a resistor (10K)(temporary!) between the base and ground. Eventually, you really will need the optical isolator.

As an emergency measure, I would simply omit L4 and short across its connections; however, RadioShack may have something that would work. 1 microhenry is pretty small and will be about the size of a small resistor. You could also put several coils of your secondary wire around a resistor and try that. There are numerous programs on the web for calculating coil inductance based on the diameter of the form (i.e., the resistor that you use) and number of coils . Pick a small value resistor (1 to 10 ohms) and you can simply wire it into your circuit using its leads for connecting the secondary wire. The added resistance should not make much difference, if any. If you calculate the inductance right and it works, the resistor solution could be permanent.

Good luck and let us know what happens. John

venomxx

Well, what program are you guy using to program the chip ? I'm getting frustrated with this project ... lol thinking of calling it quit but I dont think i will. It WILL work no matter how many times I have to re-etch, or re-solder and checkin the parts.
I found a 6pin chips from an adapter, I think it's some sort of voltage regulator.... what the hell, I plugged it in and played around with it. The only thing i'm a bit scare of is the transformer. It looks pretty big on the board and I wouldn't want to get a jolt from it unexpectedly.

So how do I test this board ? I checked for voltage and the board seems to have power relaying throughout. However, the coil doesn't have any power in them yet. hmmm poking around as long as I dont touch anything with my bare hands will be okay ? ... I hope nothing going to start going up in smoke or worse blow up!


By the way, the capacitors 100u on the schematics. What are they ? Electrolitic ? Ceramics ? ... I can't seem to find anything labeled 100u at Fry's electronics nor online. The capacitors im using are some Alluminum 10uf surface mount (wrong item from Dkey since I thought they were least expensive!)

Bobine, is that where the Spark coil connections be soldered in ?
----

One last question: Back to the Spark coil, which wires to solder to which ? I have the pic illustrated on the previous post.

3:25am here.. im getting sleepy

jpanhalt

"Well, what program are you guy using to program the chip ?"

WinPic should work for you, when you have the right voltages. I use MPLab, which is free from MicroChip.

"By the way, the capacitors 100u on the schematics. What are they ? Electrolitic ? Ceramics ? ... I can't seem to find anything labeled 100u at Fry's electronics nor online. The capacitors im using are some Alluminum 10uf surface mount (wrong item from Dkey since I thought they were least expensive!"

Generally, any capacitor of 1 ufd or larger is electrolytic. Mylar/polyester capacitors of 1ufd are made, but are quite large. The 100 ufd capacitor should be an aluminum electrolytic. Do not substitute tantalum. I would not substitute a 10 ufd for the 100 ufd. Use the correct capacity. As an emergency, you could try a 10 ufd substitute, or several 10 ufd capacitors in parallel (not series), but every substitution you make will make trouble-shooting that much more difficult. Be sure the voltage ratings are correct. You can use higher votlage ratings, but not lower. Surface mount style should work electronically, but you will then have components on both sides of your board. Remember, electrolytic capacitors have polarity, like batteries, and have to be installed in the correct orientation. I suggest double checking to be sure you have the right size and ratings and that they are not tantalum electrolytic. Capacitors, if installed incorrectly can explode. Tantalums can explode, if used improperly...the voltage ratings for a tantalum capacitor must be derated depending on the circuit in whihc they are used. That's why I would not recommend that you use them, unless you know how to do that.

"Bobine, is that where the Spark coil connections be soldered in ?"

There has been discussion on this thread before about the terminology. I believe "spark coil" is reserved for the very high-voltage coil that goes to the spark plug. "Bobine" is the small toroid coil you wound (SEE CORRECTION BELOW). Be sure the leads are attached with the proper orientation. The little "dots" on the schematic mean something, namely the beginning turn of each coil, assuming each coil was wound in the same direction. You can also use the ending turn, as long as you are consistent.

As for trouble shooting, Bigboat will be better able to advise than I am for this circuit. My approach would be to leave the PIC chip and IC2 (TIL111) out until I was sure the voltages were correct. The HV end should run without those chips and you should be able to measure about 200 to 400 volts across the output capacitor. It is possible to test for spark by "simply" and briefly touching a lead from the +4.8V of your battery to the top of R3. These are only suggestions derived from the schematic. I have never built that circuit per se. The circuit I built is a little different.

John

OOPS -- I had it backwards with respect to the Bobine definition. Poor memory and a lot of posts to go through. Sorry. Thank you, Bigboat, for the correction -- John

Bigboat

A bobine is a sparkcoil and you have to buy this one.
It's a very well isolate coil who transform the 300-600 Volt of the HV-coil (on pcb) into a 15,000 till 30,000 Volt.