ok, I've seen the threads from the past with the Twist 40 with a weedie 21, and dr Honda's smilar plane with a little mitsu 19.2.

What I'm wondering is if an ultra stick or ugly stick would suffice with a similar size engine? I've got a few of the smaller size engines and want something easy to transport. the ultra stick lite 120 is kinda big, that and I'm frustrated with it right now... I can't get that dang engine predictable (maybe I just need to start over with one of my recent homie 30's instead of the mac 32, and this time screw with it less) . So, what do you think I could get away with? I was thinking maybe a 60 or 90 stick

the engines I have to deal with are:
echo 16
poulan 18, 21, 24, 25, 32
echo 21.2
stihl 19
homie 25, 30
mac 28
ryobi 28, 31
zenoah 25ish (old green machine)
Kawasaki 22

The thought process Iwas going through at the flying field earlier was a simple conversion (less of the screwing around I did to the mac 32 I have on my USL), mag ignition, shortening the firewall to account for the nose weight. Iknow the poulans can be very light, there's not much metal on them, but the echos are similar (the 16 would need ignition work though I think), Ikinda had the poulan in mind because the 18, 21, 24 and 25 are interchangable and I have at least one of each. I'll look into the weights of my echo's and stihls

if someone has another cheap fun plane suggestion for sport/funfly type flying, I'm open, something fun to just throw around capable of all the usual stuff,I've resorted to to a beat up trainer (rest have issues) which is extremely BORING!!!!! I have the gas bug, and need something easy to haul to fulfill my need...

so, what do you think?

There are a limited number of planes that will fly well with the wing loading of a conversion and somewhat poorer power to weight ratio. I doubt the sticks that are smaller than the USL have enough inches to be good candidates. And...your criteria of sport and capable of all the usual stuff is hard to come by without obtaining some vertical performance and it takes reasonable power to weight ratio to obtain that.

Atually, my conversion experience is minimal and i don't wish to project that your goals can't be met... no doubt there will be reports of better success than mine. My conversion was on a Phaeton 90 and it flew well and typical biplane scale but when the ignition failed, I unconverted to a Zenoah G-20 and the plane came alive to "all the usual stuff".

Homie 30 on a EIU conversion, flys a USL very good, but limited hoooovering</p>

I recommend a Great Planes Big Stik, (not the Giant Stik), and your Echo 21cc.  The Echo engines are light and powerful, and the Big Stik is the right size.  It has around 1000 square inches of wing and weighs around 10 lbs.  The 21cc Echo with a 10 or 11mm carb and a free breathing exhaust would fly it nicely.</p>

I didn't recommend the Giant Stik because of your parameters.  I have a Giant Stik and it flies great but I have my BME twin of 48cc on it.</p>

If you do one, assemble the plane, including the engine but without installing the elevator or rudder servos.  Then check the balance.  If needed, you can mount one or both of those servos in the tail to achieve balance.</p>

AV8TOR</p>

</p>

A super tiger .90 converted to gas flys a 60-90 size stick with unlimited vertical and still keeps the wing loading very light

That's all good and well (seems to be a decent engine) but Iam pretty certain the poster wanted to know which engine (he allready had) that could be used versus going out and spending $400 on one of your conversions.

it's all good, sharing info is what it's about, and I've been wanting one of those .90's even though the bank account doesn't agree...</p>

I'll see if I have time tonight to dig through my pile and see what's in what shape...</p>

while I'm here, if I do decide to swap the 32 on my USL to the homie 30, is there a performance difference between the old style square case engines and the newer round case engines other than the EGR hole? I have one of each</p>

I had a souped up Homelite 25cc on my Ultra Stik Lite 120 with a smoke system and it flew great. (Right up until I "dumb thumbed" it into the ground on a low inverted pass one day....) A Homelite 30cc weighs the same and would work great on your USL. Should have more power than the Mac 32 as well.</p>

Can't answer your question about the two different engines. I only have experience with the older ones. Could you post pics?

Re your original question and my recommendation, that's a combo that I have been thinking of doing myself just to have a simple, cheap, fun plane to take with me when I travel, or for "day to day knock around" use.</p>

AV8TOR</p>

I misplaced my camera at the moment, but I haven't dug into either engine other than to verify that there isn't a bridge in the exhaust port via taking the plug out and looking in the hole at the right angle... and by the "new versus old" I was talking about the schrouding/plastic housing, on the newer models the shrouding is very round and smooth, the older style is square and clunky, the older ones having a square muffler, the newer ones with  a rounded rectangle muffler, with the hole about 1/2" above the exhaust port, which I haven't verified that this 30cc has, just assuming...</p>

yeah, right now "old trusty" is a beat to heck tower trainer with an old bushing OS .40, starts on the first flip (got the whole plane for $75), but there's just so much you can do with a high dihedral wing plane... other than inverted figure eights (takes practice), I have a hard time making a full flight before being bored out of my mind...</p>

I built a plane like we are talking about for a friend.  I took a Big Stik, bashed it into a "Low Stik" with the wing on the bottom, whacked an inch off the nose, put the servos in the rear,  and put a mildly hopped up Homelite 25cc in it.  He's been flying it for a couple of years now, and it is one of his favorite planes.  When I first built it, it came out tail heavy.  I had to put the magneto back on it to get it to balance!</p>

I believe doing one with an Echo on CDI wouldn't even require cutting the nose;  just mounting one or both of the elevator/rudder servos in the rear.</p>

AV8TOR</p>

rangerfred</p>

I don't know yet how good it will fly with a small gasser because I havn't finished it yet, but I am scratch building my third Great Planes Super Sportster 90/120 and plan on using a Ryobi 28 on it, but I would think any of those little gassers would be a good match since the wing area ia around 910 sq in. RCM still has the plans I think. I have actually simplified the build though so the engine will hang out in the open like a stick, and I also moved the firewall back from the location showed on the plans. It should make a pretty good sport flyer and good candidate for a small gasser. The other two Super SPortster 90/120'sI built I used glow engines in, but this time I wanna try a weedie in one, and that may be something that interest you as well.
I also had the Giant Super Sporster ARF, but I had a G38 in it because I felt it would have been to under powered with a 31cc weedie engine. I think the SS 90/120 size builtfrom kit or scratchwould be a better candidate.The Ryobi 31in my photo is actually the one I put in my Sig Rascal 110. I have a Ryobi 28 thatwill be going into the SS90/120 when its done.</p>

I wasn't trying to sell him one, if he converts engines that would be some options , other brand engines may work also .

I always liked the lines of the Super Sportster airplanes.  That 90/120 project looks like it will be cool.  Keep us updated!</p>

AV8TOR</p>

so I'm assuming you mean the big stik 60 (1000 square inches)? how hard is it to go low wing? just flip the wing and rework the tail? if I made one it'd get the taildragger treatment... that sounds easier to drag around, almost a foot narrower than the USL, with near the wing area. almost makes me wonder what say the echo on a ultra stick 60 would do, I don't know, maybe I should concentrate more on the planes I have... but I'll go with the ol motto "he who dies with the most toys, WINS!"

I think Ishould rework my ol NexStar to accept the 16cc echo, it should have enough wing area... although that fuse is about trashed, maybe just use that wing on the tower trainer and put the echo on it , gotta have a trainer around, and gas is superior...

Yeah, that's the one; the Big Stik 60. It's easy to bash it into a tail draggin' low winger. Fairly cheap too if you wait until Tower Hobbies has one of their 20 dollar off ads. If you get one, you might do what I did. I ordered the correct color red covering with the plane. I then used it to cover the black Iron Crosses and white areas on the bottom of the wing. It was too easy to confuse up from down while flying with the white areas and black crosses on both the top AND bottom of the wing.</p>

AV8TOR</p>

alright, went to the flying event today and after a few people left I pulled out the USL and took 2 successful flights! I've ben trying since like october to fly that thing.. turns out the last time I went out to fly it I had a stiff regulator diaphram and it wouldn't start for nothing... started right up after changing it. I need to play with my 9Z radio and make some mixes and stuff for this thing, but I'm sure I'm going to be happy with this setup, the engine has plenty of power and it's running fat in the air (I figure the ring is still breaking in, it started to run better halfway through the second flight)

I also got given a 40 size low wing stick type plane with a .40 Magnum on it, free is hard to argue with, no radio equipment or anything, but all built with the engine. I'll build it up and fly it instead of buying another plane now... not that the thought isn't going to be stewing for a while and I know I'll eventually get the 60 size stick and put a small gasser on it...

I just got one of the two explorers I recently bought running and in my name and it turns out the USL fits great in the back of one of those...

so, in short SUCCESS! I'm not near as frustrated with the thing now, a couple weeks ago I was very frustrated, I'd taken that plane out to the field a good 10 times without maidening it...

Can you post a photo of that airplane you bashed? Sounds like a fun one. Capt,n

Well, it took some looking as I've changed computers a couple of times since I built this thing around 3 years ago...

Here's a pic of it before I put the Homelite 25cc with magneto on it to get it to balance.

AV8TOR

And yes, that is "Barbie" flying it...    [8D]

AV8TOR

Nice!!!! That does look like a fun one to fly! Best Regards Capt,n

ok, bringing this back up from the dead...

got the USL up and going better (well, haven't taken it up since I kinda broke it, full span ailerons at full travel are VERY TOUCHY!!! lesson learned), on EI, I had it good and programmed a few months ago with air brakes, flaps and dual rates then accidently deleted the program (wanted to kick myself), haven't figured out how I programmed it again but got it functional now, will hopefully take it out on sunday if it doesn't rain...

got to thinking again and want something smaller for ease of transportation, and just because I want to do it... I'm looking at the 40 size ultra easy stick that's on ebay right now for about $75 shipped for the ARF, going to watch them and see if I can get one for cheaper. they have a bit over 600 inch wing area but I figure with the right setup and a really light engine it could be done

for the engine I'm thinking either the 18cc poulan, the 16cc echo, or the 19cc stihl. The poulan is easy and I have 3 of them (one already 95% converted), but am going to try to get all set up so I can judge their weights as I figure any of them would have enough power.

I'm going to try to get a serious engine conversion operation going on over the winter, I have a bunch of engines and could use some spare cash for my projects, see if I can get some of the people I fly with into flying gas conversions for cheap...

got the 18cc together and it is 3lb 1oz on mag itnition, that is everything including exhaust and prop, I believe the echo 16cc will be heavier (has a secondary coil) but will trim it down to see, and the stihl was 2 lb 10oz set up for gas/glow (mag wasn't possible with it's setup).

if the mag is too heavy, I have 4 RC EXL ignition modules on their way to me , or just go gas/glow, I believe I'll have better luck with gas/glow on one of these smaller engines than my modified 32cc mac I tried before. I know I had a 18cc set up on gas/glow before (cylinder was shot) that was at a flat 2 lb set up on gas/glow which is lighter than an RCGF 20cc on CDI, but still a lot heavier than the RCGF 15cc (but I like the $7 price I have into this engine better than the $230 for either of the previously mentioned engines)

I'm only about 200' ASL so performance is about as good as it gets

just acquired a 13cc echo engine, it's set up with a point so it isn't very new... I'll see how light I can get this thing... probably get on that tomorrow. it looks just like the 16cc but with a 1" bore and a 1.01" stroke, it's downfall is probably the bar in the exhaust port

Hellow Ken, if you get a chance read some of the DLE30cc thread in the gas forum. I bet you could come up with a better exhaust for that engine. Thanks Capt,n

dug a bit further into the 13cc engine, figured out the reason it didn't run for the previous owner is the external pulse line was cracked, easy enough

this thing is a pig weight wise with stock ignition, 3lb 10 oz without a prop adapter! will trim it further to get rid of all ignition related components and trim rear crank stub. estimate of about 2.5lb on gas/glow

on an external comparison it is identical to the 16cc, so the 16 is probably a bored version (or the other way around) which would make the 16 about an ounce lighter, the 16cc is .1" bigger bore and no bar in the exhaust port (similar to the difference between a homie 25 and 30), exhaust pattern is the same wierd offset thing, same muffler, the 13 has a wierd 45* intake adapter thing which is why it has the external pulse, will get pics up later.