Having managed to buy some castor oil, which at times was looking like mission impossible, I was surprised at how thick (viscous) it is.

The castor would normally be diluted down considerably when incorporated into a commercial fuel mix. The castor oil in a commercial model fuel would be around 24%

The modified olive oil I make is not as viscous but... there is a larger quantity of it in the fuel around 33 % or so.

Is the extra quantity of olive oil in the fuel going to offset the fact that it is less viscous than the castor ?

The castor must surely become much less viscous when diluted down with kerosene and ether ?

Am I missing something here ?

Reg

Good day Reg and all,

It has been mentioned before but I just wanted to repeat it in case some haven't made the connection; 2-ethylhexyl nitrate is also known as octyl nitrate which is the primary ingredient of the Amsoil Cetane Boost product. I have also seen the notation DII3 (diesel ignition improver 3) used synomously for 2-ethylhexyl nitrate.

Andy, the .15 size engine I am going to use for some more testing is a Chinese .15 (2.47CC) size diesel. It is new in box so will have to have some running in as well. It is a more recent version of the Silver Swallow engines. Time will tell how it holds up.

cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada.

Today it was a warm and balmy 5 degrees above on the Celsius scale. So I took off the head clamp and got busy. I wanted to find out just how much work the biodiesel was really doing and how much the kerosene was contributing. This was mostly a no oil day except for the lubrication provided by the Biodiesel fuel.

First we have a picture illustrating our first Biodiesel fuel, finally settling out all of the "soap" giving us a nice, clear, pure, Biodiesel fuel on top. This picture was taken after extracting a healthy 12 ounces by using a turkey baster. Thank god for dollar stores. Anyway, posted on YouTube, throughout the day, are runs on B80, B90 and finally, B100 Biodiesel fuel. Amsoil cetane booster was used from 1 to 2%. More actually hurt performance in all areas. All of these runs were made with NO additional oil in the mix. So far, we have had no indication of overheating, excess mechanical noise or any indication at all that the engine was in distress. In fact, the finger test revealed that the engine ran cooler than with a conventional kerosene mix. Well, it's no wonder, about 40% of the fuel oil was being expelled and carrying away a lot of heat. It WAS my hope that we'd get a dry exhaust, what with the mix being all fuel, but that was not the case.

It took a special technique to get the B100 Biodiesel fuel to fire off and keep running. On a cold engine, the compression was maxed out. On this head, I have the screw and spring length adjusted so that when the spring is squeezed as far as it will go, the contrapiston is flush with the bottom of the head. This ensures that we'll never go too far and get one piston whacking the other. A nice safety feature that all diesel engines ought to have IMO. At any rate, after finding the CP setting that allows the prime to fire off, we need a half dozen prime runs to get the engine warmed up. From there, on the last, prolonged burst, we need to catch the combustion process by cinching DOWN on the compression a tad to keep the run going and holding it there till we hear a slight sag. Then we back off a sixteenth of a turn. Then we wait for the engine to sag a bit and back off a like amount. Wait for a slight sag and back off again. This can go on for six or more times till at one point, we don't get any sag. That's our setting. Any rushing of this careful process upsets some kind of delicate balance within the dynamics of the engine. Fuel, compression ratio, heat etc. Once the setting is established, the engine will run and keep running. I've run an entire four ounces and the engine didn't miss a beat. I didn't time it but while waiting for the engine to run out of fuel, I managed to post a clip to YouTube along with commentary and waiting for the download to complete. This was done to determine if the engine would suffer in any way from having no added lubricating oil.

The needle was taken out a full four turns and this made starting a little easier. As each prime run warmed up the engine, the needle was turned in, bit by bit. This is what it took to establish where the needle should be. On B100 fuel, once adjusted, the needle valve is out only a half turn from normal. That's two and a half turns. Much more reasonable. The compression setting was a whopping full turn OUT from max. Most mixes were from 1/4 to a half turn out. Only excess Amsoil cetane booster would do this on other mixes. This makes sense as Biodiesel is supposed to have a cetane number higher than kerosene. And more typically, in this case, more cetane booster made things worse.

With this learned, I decided to try and run an SVO mix. That stands for Straight Vegetable Oil. No ether, no added oil, just 100% corn oil and 2% Amsoil cetane booster. After an hour of trying, I gave up. Using the preceding technique, I could get prolonged bursts that would pick up in RPM for about a minute but then the engine would flame out. The needle was left where it was from the B100 runs and was taken WAY out and a little bit in, with no improvement. My suspicion is that as the engine picks up speed, the pure oil's viscosity just overwhelms the carb's ability to deliver enough fuel, no matter where the needle is set. Plus, the thicker fuel is likely not to be atomizing very well.

So, what to do. Thin out the fuel mix, of course. But with what? Something Graham said came to mind. WD 40,,,,, 80 to 100% Stoddard Solvent? Well what the hell, why not. My Amsoil boosted corn oil was cut 50/50 with WD 40. To my amazement, we had a run, first try. Rough, but with a little tweaking we got a good 8K. But the sound was quite smooth. Far less of the diesel clatter that this engine provides when maxed out for power. And there was a LOT of oil coming out the exhaust.

That led me to make up a mix of 80% WD 40 and 20% cheap, supermarket corn oil. I can't remember if I added any cetane booster but this time we got a decent 9K with just a bit more tweaking. And unlike all the other runs today, I tried the throttle. To my great pleasure, we got a decent, 3.5K reliable idle and after a few minutes, transition to max was smooth and solid. No burble or bother. Neat, sweet, wonderful. Full of endorphins, I decided to make up a mix using REAL oil with 80% WD 40 and 20% Klotz castor oil. But just then, two tall, imposing gendarmes came up the dark driveway. "Good evening Sir" and from there we had a pleasant conversation about how it was 11.30 PM and some silly bylaw about a noise curfew starting at 11. Oops, my bad. My poor, suffering neighbours had had enough. I don't blame them, I was having so much fun I'd forgotten the time.

So tomorrow, if the weather holds, we'll be pursuing this new, strange brew some more. Who would have thought?

Reg,

As stated in an earlier post, it's my feeling too that a less viscous oil can be made up for by using more of it. Have you ever had an engine that was, essentially, worn out? No compression at all when trying to hand start. Then you inject some oil into the intake, get your compression back and with a normal prime, finally get a run.

As my preceding post implies, if you have enough, almost any oil will do, within reason perhaps, as long as it's a vegetable oil with its polar characteristics. Your observations and my own have prompted me to consider experimenting with glow mixes using alternate vegetable oils and methanol. No nitro but I do have that Amsoil stuff that THEY call nitro that's really a blend of nitropropane and some other junk. If we get a run that's reasonable, and if the engine stay together, we just might also be shaking up the glow world too. Now that we've been dragged into the fuel forum, why not?

But many thanks for your input on making up custom made lubricating oils for our engines. I'm getting the suspicion that only glow engines with their higher heat and RPMs have a true need for the exceptional lubricating properties of a refined castor oil. Maybe traditional, steel/iron diesels also do need the stuff but maybe modern, dieselized, ABC style engines can thrive on alternate oils. And as mentioned, maybe our modern diesels would benefit from synthetics.

If you run into troubles with your pharmaceutical castor, such as not mixing with kero alone, do send me a PM and I'll fire off some Klotz Benol over to you. Unless that idiotic and farcical, no liquids policy interferes. [&o]

Interestingk, verrrrrrrrrrry interestingk! (for those that remember Laugh In!)

WD40 eh. Most recently I was only suggesting as an additive as your comments regarding the Candian Tire (Schrader) Cetane boost was mostly this mysterous thing referred to "Stoddard Solvent". However, very early on in this thread I had given some thought to trying WD40 as the fuel. Back then I thought it bit pricey for that however. A quick look on net shows prices in the US of $12 a gallon at Lowes, $22 a galloon at home Depot in Canada and I don't have a Walmart or Canadian Tire price. I had been buying kerosene at around $4.50 a quart at Canadian tire, good clean camp cooking type kerosene, larger containers does some improvement in price per litre/quart. At around $20 CDN per US gallon of WD40 ain't that bad considering glow fuel is $35+ per US gallon. A dash of this and jigger of that, a splash of oil (synthetic and/or Castor) and away you go - gallon+ of diesel fuel for less per volume that the glow fuel I have been buying. I have an inside in one of the local garages and could probably be able to get the WD40 at near wholesale price. This certainly has possibilities.

Question is how much addition oil? WD40 is mistakenly believed by many to be a lubricant in it's own right but in fact really isn't but it does already possess a "slippery" feel and some lubricating properties. And of course as we have already shown, even though a no-ether fuel will work, the addition of 5 or 10% ether has a positive effect in making the fuel and engine even easier to operate especially I presume in the cooler seasons.

Supposed to start raining again this afternoon and I have some chores (yard and basement cleaning chores) that need tending before I can do much else. If that rain holds off a bit.... perhaps.

Patiently waiting for Andy's report on WD40 and the Klotz oil.


cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada

I have had to edit my original version of this post as... due to a senior moment... I got all my figures wrong !

Thanks for your comments Andy and following your experiments with interest.

I wend my way down the road to a quiet spot (quiet 'till I get there) and do my engine testing. That way I don't distress anything but a whole heap of beach inhabiting sea birds

Like you I also have wondered about the use of a modified veggie oil as a lubricant in glow fuel.

I reckon there will be some major developments in the commercial production of vegetable oil based lubricants in the near future.

The modified olive oil I am currently using is based on.....

Using virgin olive oil as thick an oil as I can find. This may not be necessary if refined olive oil, which is a good deal cheaper, can be found that is viscous enough.... I haven't explored this yet.

The oil is modified by the following method.... * note that it is a 1/2 litre quantity of oil - adjust for a litre *

Water 15cc
Glycerine 15 cc
Washing up liquid 20cc

(It may be possible to use more glycerine... 20 cc or more and that would be beneficial)

Stir water, glycerine and washing up liquid together in a pan. Add the 1/2 litre of olive oil and heat up. It is IMPORTANT to keep gently stirring throughout the process.

The mix will develop foam on the surface, once no more foam is being produced then put the pan onto a very low simmer and after a while the foam will either dissapear entirely or there will be very little visible.

Take the pan off the heat, allow to cool down and when cool filter into a suitable container.

The process doesn't take long... maybe 20 minutes total, apart from the cooling down !

BE VERY CAREFUL WE ARE DEALING WITH THE EQUIVALENT OF BOILING OIL ! Equivalent to the stuff they used to chuck over the sides of English castles onto anyone rash enough to attack them [:@]

I have used the oil at around 30 % when testing. This was easy to measure and was done initially for convenience 1 part oil to 2 parts kerosene.

My testing has been with a commercial model diesel fuel which has an ether content of 30% and a castor content of 24 %

I used my mix of olive oil and paraffin to dilute the commercial mix down to 1/3 of it's volume. This gave me a fuel mix with 10% ether and around 8 % castor. The castor would help as a bit of a safety net for the olive oil lubricant.

I have also run just an olive oil and kerosene only fuel with no castor and no ether in it and this also ran well.

Initially 2.5% of an ignition improver was added to the mix. I recently found that more of the ignition improver would allow the compression to be backed off to the stage where the engine was running at the same settings as when using a 30% ether mix.I need to do more tests and accurately measure the amount of ignition improver added rather than just splashing some in !

Today I sat down and did some calculations on cost. I hadn't priced up my homebrew fuel, although some of the ingredients seem dear when first buying them.... I got a surprise.....

To make 1 litre of 10% ether content diesel fuel.....
Commercial fuel mix (D2000 from Model Technics in the UK ) 330cc
kerosene (paraffin) 400 cc
Olive oil or castor oil 170cc
Ignition improver (Millers Diesel Power Plus in the UK ) 100cc

This gives a fuel with a TOTAL oil content of 24% and TOTAL kerosene content of 55% and 10% ether content.

My homebrew mix costs for 1 litre = £5 -64 or $10 .60 USA at $1.88 to a £1

A commercial 30% ether mix 1 litre = £7 - 95 or $14.57

Costs were based on using castor, olive oil would be a bit cheaper.

Ignition improver is quoted at 10% but 5% may be more realistic, which would also lower the cost a bit more.

I have a fuel that is much cheaper than the commercial mix. Retains 10% ether for the advantages it gives and starts very easily without any extraordinary methods used to get it started.

For those who don't have time or inclination or who prefer the safety net of castor oil as the lubricant then just add castor instead of olive oil.... easy

I can happily and safely run this mix and also know that if I need/want to then I can also switch easily into using a non-ether mix based on the olive oil as lubricant.

I am happy and will now restrain myself to just fidling with the amount of ignition improver to find the optimum amount.

So there we have it..... a comparatively cheap fuel, castor or olive oil can be used, the engine starts easily with a starter motor, the settings for the compression and needle are virtually the same as when using a 30% ether mix, so the engine is not exposed to high compression settings. I also now know that if model diesel fuel or castor oil become hard to obtain I can make a substitute non-ether mix that will run my engines...... sorted

Reg

Don't forget that FLYING your mix may not be the same as bench testing as can be seen by looking at the repair on the wing of my Big Stick. Also ( may be obvious ) throttling is much harder. If it wasn't for throttlling I could probably run a straight diesel oil mix.


I can see there are so many different goalls going on in this thread, eitherless, alternitive oils or no oil, cheap cost, most "green" fuel and easyest to make and obtain.

I went for cheapest and easyest to make-obtain and I feel like I met those goals and have a very flyable mix. Now that Andy has given me another good idea to try I will use a bit of WD-40 and see if it can replace the Amsoil cetain booster and make it easier yet to obtain and cheaper too.

Treven.

Hi Chevy,

I had to alter the figures in my other post as I had my head on back to front when I typed it up !

I know that this mix will fly and throttle O.K as it is nearer to a normal commercial mix than my first attempts with modifying ordinary cooking oil.

There were no issues with the cheaper mix based on cheap cooking oil apart from that mix needed increased compression and needle settings. The totally non-ether mixes that I have tested also flew and throttled well, they just required a high ether prime or two to get them started.

Having tested a variety of veggie based fuel mixes this one, although by no means the cheapest, has similar engine settings to a normal 30% ether mix and is based on the desire to turn 1 gallon of expensive 30 % ether mix into 3 gallons of cheaper fuel.

A gallon of diesel fuel costs me £30 or USA $56.4

In order to get a gallon of fuel it costs me £7 or USA $13 delivery. Making the original 1 gallon become 3 gallons looks an attractive proposition

There are only 2 suppliers licensed to post fuel in the UK. If they stopped trading I would be reduced to only being able to buy 1 litre cans in the hobby shops as they have trouble getting the fuel in more than 1 litre tins. My need is to "magically" increase the amount of fuel which I had delivered.

I can get the necessary ingredients locally to do the "magic" transformation of 1 gallon into 3 so there are no extra delivery costs involved.

The fuel mix I posted is a SAFE mix. I know it will fly and throttle and I also know that it is putting no extra strain on the engine... it runs at the same settings as a 30% ether mix. As a bonus it starts very easily by just fetching fuel up to the carb and then a quick spin with the starter.... and that is from cold !

That mix is one that I can use on a regular basis and if I use castor, which will mix O.K due to the 10% ether then there should be no engine problems.

Having a mix that does what I need is good. However, messing about with different mixes, including non-ether ones has shown me that I can make totally non-ether fuels that will run and throttle OK.

My 10% ether mix has given me 3 gallons of fuel, that gives me a LOT of flying time while I continue experimenting with the "sacrificial" PAW engine, veggie oil lube and non-ether fuel.

If commercial diesel fuel or any of it's ingredients becomes difficult to get then I know how to make and use an alternative.

Thanks to Andy, who sparked the whole thing off, he set me to experimenting and that has led to interesting results for me, so far.

I have a mix that enables me to fly with safe engine settings and I also intend to do more testing on
totally non-ether mixes using olive oil as the lubricant. I also need to establish the optimum amount of ignition improver... this is relatively expensive so using more than is necessary make the mix dearer, I have put a figure of 10% but it is more likely to be 5% or so.

Your fuel mix is totally different and provides an alternative way of going about it. It will also work out very cheap and that's a desirable thing You have shown that there is another alternative which uses ingredients that anyone can easily get hold of, but there are some constraints... higher compression settings and a need to give some thought to starting and more messy.... but..... IT WORKS !

Andy meanwhile is off on a voyage of discovery that could lead to.... well who can guess ?

What happened to the wing on your Big Stick ? It appears that it got damaged but what was the cause ?

Reg

Ahhh, my dead stick wing damage story is back on page 14 in post#348. That is when I began to mix in 20% commercial fuel into my "Black Brew".

This thread is getting to be like reading the bible.

Reg I am also mixing with commercial fuel at 4 parts my mix to one part Davis. This give about 6% etiher and just a little castor oil. So I use 1 gallon of commercial to every 5 gallons made. I will also try makining fuel with 5% either from a can so I will not need any commercial fuel. This gives me a hand starting ability.

Treven.

Chevy,
Your right this thread is beginning to resemble the Bible, another week or so and we will probably be running to as many pages and it isn't easy remembering what has gone before. I have saved all the posts but it can be eye watering going back through them all.

I also want to try diluting a commercial mix down to 5 % ether, just haven't had the time to get to that bit yet... it will be interesting to see how much effect the ignition improver has if I take the ether content lower.

I don't know if the John Deer tractor starting fluid, with it's high ether content, is available locally here in the UK. There is an agricultural repair shop nearby that I need to get in touch with to see if it, or something similar, is available.... there should probably be something over here that I could use.

One things for sure... there has been a lot of wet weather here lately, no good for flying but when it stops there is at least the chance to carry on messing with fuel mixes.....

Off topic, but just for interest.... I read recently that out of all the new cars sold in the UK nearly 40 % of them now have diesel engines, I am on my 3rd diesel car and love 'em. There has been a steady improvement... first one was a bog standard diesel, second one was turbo intercooled and that made a heck of a difference. This one is common rail, direct injection, turbo intercooled and is amazing.... hills don't exist for this car and acceleration is "interesting".

Reg

Isn't turbocharging and intercooling great! I only drive diesels.

I would venture to say with the advent of biodiesel in a few years kero may be history in model fuel most likely areodyne, model
tecnics (UK) and davis here will take a look at it will exhaust smell like french frys?? that should reduce a lot a stigma against dieselsand yes I am back in the full size diesel game new dodge cummins turodiesel no smoke smell or clatter with the new injection
and exhaust system have had mercedes and gm 350 diesels and a mitsubishi in my 78 dodge truck all good but noise and smoke
for sure martin

I wasn't going to post because I'm upset about the move of this thread.

One point to make Imperial gallons are 20% larger than American gallons.

I went to the grocery store and olive oil goes for about 12-13USD per quart. I can buy synthetic lube for this price. Why bother? I did see pomace olive oil for 10 per gallon but I don't know if it is suitable. That is the lowest grade available. I couldn't even find glycerin.

Biodiesel is not a replacement for keroesene, or even diesel fuel when it gets below freezing.

It bothers me that is was moved as well. Who did it?

Who is the moderator? Why didn't they say anything? We have put alot of work into the infomation here and have shared it freely.

I don't want to jump to conclutions so I won't yet but I'd like an explanation for the move. Maybe I will ask on the diesel forum.


Edit: I see that it is back under Everything Diesel?!? What is going on?

I sent a message to RCU through a link I found stating my opinion on how this forum is being handled. I haven't actually received a response so I'm not sure what is happening.

Hello,
I don't have a diesel model engine yet. I do work for an F.B.O. at the local airport. We sell jet-A with or with-out prist. Jet-a is aviation grade kerosene. The only difference between jet-A and K-1 or Kerosene that you get from the filling station is it is supposed to be handled more carefully to prevent contamination.
Prist is an additive that caused moisture to be suspended in the fuel, rather than settling out. This prevents microbial growth and ice in the fuel filters.
We can sell avgas or jet fuel to anyone with a proper container, however there is no "road tax" on the fuel, so we can't sell it for use in automobiles. Some F.B.O.s wont sell it to anyone who doesn't have an airplane, company policy.
The trucks and underground tanks are "sumped" regularly, You might get some for free.
I am considering converting an A.S.P. .46 if Davis Diesel makes a head for it. I want to use this engine in a 3D Giles 202 ARF. The kit recommends a .40 2c or .52 4c. What do you think? The engine runs great on glow. Will I still get good throttle response and reliability, with more power than glow?

A diesel doesnt essentialy produce more power than a glow, the performance on the same prop is about the same.
That said a diesel produces more power at lower RPMs than glow - it has more torque. Allowing you to get more thrust by useing larger props at lower RPMs , noise and fuel consumption.
Stewart

Hi guys,

Many thanks for your kind comments. And you know, this thing is becoming a Bible of sorts because of all of your efforts. I might have kicked it off but all contributions, freely and generously shared has prompted the courage to experiment as never before. As each discovery, tidbit of information, valid opinion and respectful scepticism emerged, we've made progress that might not have developed in any other way.

RCU is a commercial enterprise and I'd bet that they're doing very well but they did the work to make it happen and that has benefited all of us. As they deal, day to day, with the decisions, influences and constraints of the job of managing the complexity of the task, they may take things here or there that in retrospect, give them pause to reconsider. That they did, and made it right again, shows that there's a fairness of mind at play. For the longest time I've wondered how we've managed to get away with this thread for as long as we did. This HAS happened before, where a diesel fuel discussion had quite quickly been moved.

So here we are, back where we belong.

Yesterday it rained and memories of Bill Cosby doing Noah came to mind. Yeah, and I remember Laugh In too. So I got busy making up a device that plugs into the back of the muffler on the Norvel. This is a 3/4" ID automotive heater hose. At six feet long, it creates a really, really big muffler. Long and lots of volume. The end of this is going into a 5 gallon, plastic pail that'll have a multitude of small hoes drilled into it. I'm anticipating no loss of power and zero noise emissions except for the hiss of air coming out of many, many 1/16" holes drilled randomly all around the tub. There'd be pictures if the memory card on my camera hadn't got corrupted. Should have bought that spare and the computer kid at Staples tried to tell me but old farts rarely listen to the advice of rash youth, do we? Well, I speak for myself, but anyway, a few days from now and I'll be back in business.

Bentwrench,

I like your handle. Conversions from glow to diesel can be a very rewarding experience. Stewart has summarized the advantages of diesel very well. Once you experience diesel, it's hard to go back. Stick with a traditional fuel for now and you'll have no problems. Throttling becomes better sometimes and sometimes you just need to make the proper adjustments. Where diesel works to your advantage is the capacity to adjust the compression. With glow, if your idle is too rich, even with the low speed maxed out, you can bring it back into adjustable range by reducing the compression by adding a shim. Reducing compression requires a leaner high speed needle and this will lean out the mix to where the low speed adjuster will take effect. This, of course, requires some wrench work but with a diesel, it's just a tweak job. The control over your engine's performance is superior on a diesel.

Don't be afraid of a starter. Just use the engine as glow to break it in and find the settings. They'll be close and from there you can get a start and proceed to fine tune. At the outset, the very most important thing is to establish your compression setting WITH NO FUEL IN THE TANK. This prevents any danger from hydraulic lock when using a starter. Once you get a start, it's just a amtter of making the adjustments for that perfect run. After that, your new, diesel engine will start every time as long as you apply DROPS of prime at the intake. If you have very good compression seal, you're also in danger of being able to hand start the thing. Look Ma, no glow clip. [X(] Your flying buddies will be amazed and delighted.

Reg,

Many thanks for the procedures to make veggielube OMT. One question. Heating the brew. How hot? Just got me a brand new, turkey thermometer, (dollar store) that I want to put to good use. I assume the cooking temperature isn't all that critical but just wanted to make sure.

What is wrong with a diesel fuel discusion?

Why don't they bother to at least inform us of what is going on?

They do get money from advertizers but they also get material from us. We are not just freeloaders here, we are suppling CONTENT! We have generated LOTS of intrest in the diesel form.

How come OZ won't come out from behind the curtain?


I ASK AGAIN: WHO IS MAKING THEASE DECISIONS AND CAN YOU AT LEAST EXPLAIN THE MATTER TO US FOR GOOD WILLS SAKE IN THE FUTURE.

Treven.

Hi Andy,
I thought I would post the method of making modified olive oil as the original posts around modifying vegetable oil are a good way back in the pile now... saves rooting back to find them.

The olive oil is by far the best way to go, I wouldn't bother with cheap cooking oils anymore having seen the difference, and also heard the difference when the engine is running.

I haven't a clue what the temperature is when "cooking" the oil, it was bubbling merrily so I guess it was boiling. If the oil gets too active just turn down the heat a bit. Once the foam has stopped increasing put the oil on a very low simmer until the foam goes. With cheap cooking oil there was a lot of foam and the heat had to be turned down otherwise it would have overflowed from the pan. The olive oil doesn't exhibit this behaviour, there is not a lot of foam produced at all.I find there is still a bit of foam left on the surface after simmering... don't sweat it as it doesn't seem to make any difference. If there is anything critical about the process I haven't found it

Foam will appear when the oil heats up, there won't be a lot with olive oil and you can soon put it onto simmer. If you spend more than 20 minutes on the process then you are being waaaay too fussy.

Use 15 cc (or even 20cc of glycerine as it appears the olive oil will benefit from a bigger amount than cheap cooking oil.

It might be worth using about 30% olive oil in the fuel mix until we find out more about it.

I made up a litre of fuel today. I made it to the 10% ether recipe. This fuel is intended for flying purposes in my non-sacrificial engines so I used castor oil as the lubricant. The fuel mix looks a bit cloudy... it's in a brown glass bottle so can't tell properly. I am wondering if the castor is not dispersing properly with only 10% ether content ? It may be that I will need to use part castor and part olive oil if I am making a "super safe" mix. I want to use the super safe mix while I continue experimenting with olive oil lubricant and non-ether mixes in my "sacrificial" engine.

I bought some easily read measuring jugs, including very small ,size with a view to mixing accurately. Some things, like the ignition improver where more of an inspired guess rather than an accurately measured amount.

I only put in 5% of the 2-ethylhexyl nitrate ignition improver.... good job I did as my original intention was to use 10%.

I put some of the mix in the tank of a PAW 1.49 and choked to get fuel to the carb. A spin or two of the starter was needed to establish the required starting compression setting. Once I found the setting the engine started and ran straight up to speed without any effort. I backed off the compression and let it run for a few seconds. I adjusted the needle and compression for optimum running and...................... the compression was equal to or even slightly lower than when using 30% ether fuel !!!! Needle was just about 1 turn out from closed.

The ignition improver seems to be compensating for the lower ether content. The engine runs with much less compression than I expected.... glad I didn't use 10 % as I originally intended.

This could bode well for a 5% ether mix as a bit more ignition improver or a slight compression increase might give equally good running.... work in progress

I need to try a non-ether mix with a measured 5% of this ignition improver and see if I get the same effect - or - if it is only apparent when ether is present. I noticed an improvement the other day whe running 10% ether with olive oil mix, but that was just adding a few drops extra. Measuring it more accurately so the correct amount is present gave very good results.

I am hoping to go do some flying tomorrow, I will be using a couple of PAW 1.49's one with RC carb and one without.... should be interesting [X(]

Reg

Hi Greg,
As you discovered olive oil isn't cheap. Which one/grade to use ..... the thickest,slowest running you can find amongst them. I anticipate being arrested while pulling bottles of olive oil from the shelves and tipping them this way and that []

Glycerine should be in the home baking section of a supermarket, or large grocery store. It is only a small bottle, similar to the coloured dyes that are used in cake icing and such.

Why bother.... well why do people climb mountains ? I seem to remember you saying you don't have a lot of time, fortunately I am the opposite and if something engages my interest I have plenty of time to get involved in it. I fancy producing a vegetable oil based lubricant. It would be readily available from shops and easily made. I could use synthetic... the thing that worries me about synthetic oil in a diesel mix is.... there are no commercial fuel mixes sold with synthetic as the lube.

Far more experienced people than me seem to think that castor is the only safe lubricant for model diesels. If large and very well respected fuel manufacturers are not using synthetic then I have to assume that they can see the potential drawbacks and don't want to tarnish their hard earned reputation. They are producing a fuel which is going to be used in many different types of engine. They have to take account of the differences... no good using a lube that is only any good if the wrist pin is a large diameter and also bushed, most engines won't fit that criteria.

Playing about with non-ether or low ether mixes can result in the engine needing far more compression to run, I try to avoid this situation - if I cant get the compression down then I don't want that mix. Increased compression puts a heck of a lot more stress on the engine.... not a good time to use a lube that may decide to "unzip" !

One potential drawback with synthetic is it's ability to "unzip" and go back to it's constituent ingredients when it fails. At that stage the lube has catastrophically failed... end of engine !

My friend who was playing around with this stuff years ago reckons that a straight grade of 2 stroke oil is O.K, but avoid any oil that contains additives as they frequently cause problems.

Reg

Andy,
Thinking about my previous post....

Cheap cooking oil produced a LOT of foam when being modified.

Olive oil produces only a slight amount of foam.

The washing up liquid is supposed to act as a catalyst for the glycerine.

If there is far less foam being produced then that would indicate that there is a far greater take up of glycerine by the olive oil and the washing up liquid is being utilised more and thus producing less foam ........ ???

It would be nice if Stewart and the bio-chemist he has contact with could express some thoughts on that.......

Reg

I wish there was a running synopsis of various recipes and their running characteristics. Probably everyone does. Years ago, I would have gladly tackled such a project myself. Now, just a little time spent at the monitor starts my eyes to jittering. Rats! What is worse is that I even have the time available to perform such a task, but not the vision. Astigmatism and diabetes have taken their toll.

I can understand why a fuel discussion would be moved to the fuel forum. It makes perfect sense to me.

It also would have made sense to post some kind of a notice, or to send all concerned a notice telling them of the move. But, alas, it is not a perfect world, and, amazingly, things have been rectified. We do provide the content for RCU, which they are very aware of, I'm sure. We too should keep in mind that without them, we would have no forum at all unless we set something up on the newsgroups. Yech.

I haven't read everything as yet. Even if I had, I'm sure I wouldn't remember much of it, but at this point, I'm interested in the B100 with stoddard solvent mix. Unfortunately, the closest place that I have found (so far) selling B100 is eighty or so miles away. This is a truckstop in Murfreesboro, TN. The closer places that I have found do not sell B100, but much lower soy oil concentrations instead.

Stoddard solvent is available at a Lowe's just a mile or so down the road. I like B100 because of its preliminary estimation of providing adequate lubrication. I have no idea how much a gallon (US) is selling for at the 80 miles away site.

I'll have all of you know that you have finally pushed me over the edge of participating with model Diesel engines again. The fuel exploration did the trick.

Why does the olive oil have to be treated? Miscibility? TIA

Ed,
The Olive oil is treated/ modded to make it more like castor in its properties.
Castor is a highly saturated oil that is low in vitamin "E". Saturation level gives the oil its viscosity and its EP rateing , the vit E level determines the stability of the oil , ie lower is less stable, its easier for the oil to form varnish . There are other differences to that make castor stand out as a lubricant.
We use/add 3 things to Olive oil in the mod proces , glycerine(to increase saturation), water and detergent, the detergent acts as a catylist and also is used with the water in the hydrogenation of the oil , so we are doing 2 things to the olive oil , saturateing it and hydrogenating it both of wich improve its lubrication qualities ie make it more castorish.
Both myself and Reg have noted an increase in viscosity after processing so the process must be doing its job.
Reg,
I dont talk all the time with the chemist, but I will ask some more specific questions and allso if she can recomend some more specific quantities of glycerine,water, detergent and anything else that would improve our finnished lube, she is a busy woman so we may need to be patient
Andy ,
I agree we all have learnt a lot through this thread on both lubricants and base fuels and as Reg and others have said there fuel requirements differ from others , but all have benefitted from your/our research , All is good . Myself I like to hand start so am stuck at this stage with at least 20% ether fuel-I think and maybe kero, but who knows whats ahead.
Keep up the good work guys.
Stewart