I have no experience with model diesels. I'm a glow flyer and especially enjoy Cox 1/2A engines. Someone just gave me this Deezil engine and I was pretty excited but I know nothing about it. Would appreciate any info you officianados could help me with. How old is it? What displacement, etc. Anything would be appreciated. Thanks.

Tee Bee

Tee Bee,
What you have is an original Gotham Hobbie Deezil .12ci produced around 1948-9 m unfortunately due too poor quality control most will not run, or run poorly. Good reproductions/replicas that do perform were made by Gordon Burford and currently CS , alternatively if your a machineist Rodger Schroder offers a casting kit and full construction drawings and step by step machineing guide.
Stewart

hmmm besides that looks like a 7 by 0 prop martin

That is indeed a beautiful prop, ain't it.

RJL MECOA claims to have the rights to that design, but there's squat about that engine on their site.

Other than reiterating the lore that almost all Deezil engines were so badly made that they are impossible to start and run successfully, all I can say is that with a real vintage prop it would make an interesting curiosity to put on your workbench. Trying to run it might put you off diesels permanently, I'm afraid.

If you want to disassemble that engine for inspection and cleaning, I think we'd all be interested in a peek at the internals and your observations. Heck, if you can get it to turn over smoothly with decent compression, I even want you to mix a pint of "old English" mix and give it a few flips. All you'd probably be out is the cost of a wooden 9x4 and whatever you need for the fuel.

On that less than cheery note, I'd love to see you acquire a better engine for a first model diesel and come back for help with a project that will be a success.

I'll probably disassemble it soon and check it out. I doubt I'll end up trying to run it, though. I just bought a full page original 1955 ad for this engine in good shape on the big auction site and it should make a nice display with the engine. I've got enough model projects to keep me busy already. Thanks.

I asked for a Deezil for Christmas I think the year was 1948. My dad said I was too young. In 2006 I purchased as a Christmas present to myself a replica Deezil from Doctor Diesel (Eric Clutton). On a warm Feb 2006 day I ran the Deezil on the test stand about 10 times. A nice running engine and easy to start and adjust. Best to buy a replica diesel from fellows who run them before shipping. Examples are Eric Clutton US, David Owen Au and Ian Russel in the UK. I have purchased diesel replicas from all three of these fellows and not one bad engine did I recieve. I am sure ther are others. Jack Hiner

Tee Bee,

From what I understand (which may or may not be true), the original originals (?) were good running engines. Ran something like a Mills. When sales did not go as expected, the remaining engines and parts were sold (apparently) to Gotham Hobbies. The remaining parts were assembled into engines by folks who did not know about fitting parts. For that reason, some ran, many did not.

Couple that with the idea that many "gave it a try" because the engines were selling for $2.95 ... mostly to folks who had never run diesels.

I would clean and oil it, free it up if necessary, and give it a try. If it turns over easy and has some compression, it may be a runner. I would try a 9x4 prop for the flywheel action.

If it turns over easily and has no compression, with piston at TDC, turn the compression screw in until the contra piston makes contact with the piston top. Now back the screw out 1.5 turns. Squirt a couple of drops of fuel in the exhaust and flip the prop smartly. Try to start per standard diesel starting, keeping in mind to not increase compression to the point of hitting the piston.

If you can not flip it fast enough to create some compression, try a starter. BTW, sometimes compression will increas by running for the first few runs.

You might ask your friend if he ever ran it, and get someone familiar with diesels to help you.

If you do get it running...man do you have bragging rights!

If not, you still have an old collectable engine with known history. BTW, mine is a replica.

Good luck,
George

PS. Here is a scan of the advertisement in MAN 8/52:

Good post,
Just makes me wonder what ever became of your dollar?
A well built engine for less than 3.00 ?
Just poking fun at you guys, don't get me wrong.
If the diesel engine has got compression, and using fuel with at least 30% ether, it should be able to start on a few drops of fuel.
I mix my fuel:
ether 33%
oil SAE 50 33%
remainder lamp oil (kerosene)
This mix should work on any engine
Flooding your engine WILL NEVER START IT. Clean out the engine until you are sure there is no flooding condition. Then prime with a few drops and flip with the comprssion screw at least 1/2 turn open (from hitting the piston). The engine should burp, and then need some more prime.

Great info here. Thanks, guys. I disassembled it this morning and it looks pretty good except that the contra piston is stuck in it's bore. I'll probably soak it in oil or kerosene and then heat it up to see if it'll break free. Question: Is the compression screw supposed to be attached to the contra piston? Mine is not. If not, then what keeps the contra piston from slapping up and down beating the other piston to death when running. As it is currently, the piston is hitting the contra piston just before top dead center.

I'm guessing it's missing a prop driver as well.

The contrapiston is supposed to fit such that it will go up when you back the compression screw off while the engine is running, but not move up and down with changes in combustion chamber pressure. Diesel contrapistons often come too tight. They move up and down while the engine is cold, but freeze in place and will not move up once the engine is running. Making them fit is a very delicate matter. So far I have not ruined one.

Hmmm. That does look like a flat washer instead of a prop driver.

Tee Bee,
The Deezil prop driver "is" a flat washer with a "D" shaped hole. Another bit of trivia of the Deezil is the die make made a mistake, look closely at the crankcase and you will see that the mounting lugs are not at the same height.
Stewart

"The Deezil prop driver "is" a flat washer with a "D" shaped hole."

Cool! It looks like I've got the original prop driver, then. This engine is getting more interesting all the time. I sure appreciate the info you all have shared. Here's a few shots of it disassembled. The needle valve removes from the brass collet very easily. I'm supposing that the knurled section is supposed to be holding it in there tightly. The backplate gasket looks to be in good shape. The piston/cylinder fit is pretty nice as well. I just need to get the contra piston unstuck.

I have removed contra pistons by making a 10 inch or so hardwood dowel that fits into the cylinder from the bottom. Place a hardwood piece on top of the cylinder, the dowel into the cylinder from the bottom. With the dowel on a piece of hardwood stirke the piece of hardwood on top of the cylinder. The wood keeps any damage from the cylinder. This should push the contra pistonup and out if needed. A little oil in the cylinder first helps out. I used this on a Mills 1.3 up to a .60 size diesel. Just larger dowel with the larger engines. Jack

That worked. Thanks. I can now move the contra piston up and down by striking the dowel but not by hand. Is this normal?

A dollar bought a lot of food and gas back then! I'm not that old, but I remember gas at 25 cents a gallon. Bread was probably something like 5 cents back then.

Contrapiston sounds pretty close to right.

I can run it down with the compression screw until it hits the piston but the piston won't force it back up. You have to remove the cylinder and knock it back up with the dowel to readjust it. Other than that, the compression seems very good with everything oiled up. Now, I'll have to find some adequate diesel or figure out how to mix a small batch. The curiousity about whether it will run is increasing.

TB ,The first time it fires the contra will come
up to meet the screw with a neat "click". I'll
say that prop is likely one of a kind,wouldn't
part with it at all, just display as art[8D]
Ralph

[link=http://www.eifflaender.com/]PAW site[/link]

Fuel mixes and prop sizes can be found here. Also great general instructions for starting and running.

Your Deezil would run a 9x4 wooden prop. Maybe 10x4. Fuel mix would be "Olde English" -- equal parts of castor oil, lamp oil, and ether. Easy to mix and should run anything.

The contrapiston fit sounds great. When you start flipping a prop the contrapiston should move up from the combustion pressure when the compression screw is eased back while the engine is running. Get the contrapiston back to the top of the cylinder and slowy screw it down in 1/16th or 1/8 turn increments when you get to the point where you want to do some flipping wet with a prime of Olde English. Flip the prop with only a priming squirt in the cylinder until you get it to fire and perhaps run out the prime. You will avoid risking hydraulic lock and bent and broken internals from flooding the engine by flipping without a tank of fuel. Only when you can get it to fire and run out the prime regularly should you connect a whole tank of fuel to the engine.

Be careful not to get the contra piston too far down into the cylinder. You can get the fit too loose with repeated up and down with the contra in the cylinder. Once I get the contra piston in the top of the cylinder I use the compression screw to lower the contra a bit. Wait to you are ready to run the engine before adjusting the contra up and down so as not to get the fit too loose. Go to the SAM web site for a good article on the basics of model dieel operation. Best to find someone near you who has experience running diesel for some help in this. Jack

Tee Bee,

When you remove the contra, clean it with soap and water using "Scotch Brite" or equivalent scouring pad. Same for upper cylinder. Be sure to use something non-abrasive so you don't damage the parts.

Many contra pistons are a bit tight...better tight than loose. When you insert the contra, give it a twist in case it or the cylinder is slightly out-of-round. Sometimes there is a tight spot or a loose spot (although there should not be).

Diesel fuel: I think Eric Clutton only sells in Gallons, which is a HUGE amount for a 2cc diesel. Davis or Carlson have it available in quarts. You may also find it on some other online Hobby shops (assuming your LHS does not have it).

You need fuel tubing other than silicone. Diesel fuel causes silicone to swell.

Unless absolutely necessary, I would suggest you use commercial fuel. Mixing your own is great but you are learning to run a diesel. Having doubts about your fuel mix is an unnecessary factor.

George

Here's the Deezil after some cleaning, oiling, etc. I found this full page ad from Gotham Hobbies in a 1955 Popular Science magazine on the big auction site. I was tickled to find it and put it in a frame. Looked so nice that I had to make a stand to display the engine with it. Will try to run it someday but lots of other projects are in front of it right now.