Huntster

If you installed non moving Canards the additional "wing" area more than likely would assist in the landing when the plane is at a high AOA. To put moving canards would also assist but as has been said already, if the plane is nose heavy, run the servo from in the back and have a light carbon fiber rod to the control in the nose. These planes look GREAT and I went to AK-models web site and it looks REAL tempting for $130. It's a warbird..... It's a scale bird... and it's FAST!!!! Great work guys and keep "bashing" the kits and playing to make them unique.

Steelie

My Feedback: (18)

If you guys want to see some great mods including full flying stabs and more, go here and read through http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4244427

I don't know why Mods didn't finish, but this should give you some great ideas. If the above link doesn't work just copy and paste into your address bar and go.

ser00

Hi everybody,

I have sat down and by superimposing a SU-27 over a SU-33, I have determine the exact dimensions for the canards for the SU-27. Applying these same "scale" canards to the SU-27 plans looked a little odd so I have adjusted (slightly enlarged) them to better match the scale of our SU-27. I have included a picture of the canards drawn on the plans and a additional drawing of the new part that needs to be made to mod the SU-27 to a SU-33. I wil make a prototype of the piece and post pictures of it here. The canard mod will be made of several pieces, with CF rods running in it if I feel the new part is too flimsy. The canard itself will be shaped with a flat bottom air foil to generate lift. As always, if anybody wants to chime in here to express the pros and cons of this mod or its approach, I would greatlyappreciate it.

Happy flying and soft landings!

jodini

My Feedback: (2)

That will look really cool! Since it's going there, I would either do the carbon fiber rod or fiberglass those pieces together.

Can't wait to see this come together.

NoOneFlysAtMyClub

My Feedback: (32)

ser00,

I too am considering the canard mod to SU-33 / SU-35 along with a full flying stab. Also thinking about doing the speed brake on the fuse.

Your sizing of the canard looks good.

My thoughts are to have the canard move 50% to the flying stab, maybe less?

I have watched some video of the full size plane and the stab moves quite a lot for not much pitch movement.

I don't think the canard should overpower the stab.

No background here, just my thoughts.

Tony

ser00

Hi everybody,

It would be nice to do a flying stab abd working canards on this plane. If I coupled the canards with the flying stab, I would start out setting the canards to zero movement and slowly add 5% of the total throw of the flying stab to the canards until I have happy with the performance. Given their small size, I agree that 50% of the total throw of the stab would be a good point to start depending on the stab throws. The only issue here is it takes some money and time to build a plane. If I already had a SU-27 built and flown it to where I had a comfort zone, I would be more open to the idea of coupled canards and flying stabs. I have heard other people attempting the flying stab mod but all I have read is the building phase of it. I have not read any actual flight performance using this mod. I have the throws for the Cermark F-16 that has flying stabs. I would need to compare the CG position and overall dimensions of both planes to determine if the throws would work. If somebody knows what the throws should be for the flying stab mod, then let me know and I would strongly think about doing the mod. The coupled canards might be more difficult to do because of the nose gear potentially being in the way. It might be possible to run two high torque micro servos in the back of the plane and connect them to the canards with carbon fiber rods. Anyway, I will probably just do static canards for now and maybe do the the flying stab and coupled canards in the future (I have two SU-27 kits). I will also slightly enlarge the vertical stabs to between match the SU-33. I will leave the tail cone as is. There is something cool looking about the way it looks. I am also going to try to replace the nozzles with something that looks more realistic. I will keep everybody posted.

Happy flying and soft landings!

NoOneFlysAtMyClub

My Feedback: (32)

ser00,

Canard thought.

Step one for landing assist, step two for high angle of attack air show flyby!

Full flying stab of course.

Cool?

Yes!

Tony

ser00

Hi Roadtrip,

I agree. With some creative mixing (and a $1000 radio), you could program different capabilities into the canard. You could set up settings for takeoff where the canards help lift the nose, work in conjunction with the flying stab to increase manueverability, increase throws opposite to flying stab for high alpha flight, and lessen throws opposite to stab to channel air over wing and ailerons for landings. Of course, it would just look cool. I am planning to do an airbrake mod and control it with the flap switch on the radio. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I am still milling over the idea of adding flaps to the wing. Some people like flaps, some hate them. I think flaps set to no more than 15° deflection really do help land a plane slower. But, with the size of the ailerons, the built in wash-out of the wings, it might not be worth the extra weight of the servos. Here is another question for those with more experience than I. I have heard alot about the possibility of flutter on this plane. I have seen several ways on how to help prevent this. In the build threads, I notice everybody uses the CA hinges. I myself have a fondness for Robart hinges. From experience, can anybody tell me if using Robart hinges will help lessen flutter? I have a few more questions (I love this site). This question is for Blade47, I noticed that you increased the size of the elevators. I read somewhere that if you increase them too much, you increase the chance for flutter. Since you increased the size of your elevators and your plane survived, could you please give me the dimensions on the outer and inner sides of your elevator control surfaces. As far as in servoes, what is everybody using for the ailerons, rudders and elevators. I have mostly Futaba 3004s. I do have three Jr Digital servoes that are 90oz torque each. Could everybody let me know what servo or torque amount they use and where. As always, many thanks for everybody's help. I know that by listening to people, I can learn and then in turn I can help others in the future - people helping people! On a side note, does anybody know if Alex (AK-Models) plan on bringing out the F-16?

Happy flying and soft landings!

jodini

My Feedback: (2)

Well, I think replacing the fiberglass hinges is not a bad idea. I tried a few different options on mine and then decided that the heavy duty debro hinges worked best. I wanted something that would vibrate and really solid. I also monocoated the seam, which I think helps.

I flew my SU-27 with good success since I built it in June 2007, but was never happy with that EVO 1.00 so I broke down and bought a JETT .90. Well now I have the power, but tons of flutter too. It crashed into a tree last time and the thing has been rebuilt a few times. I'm going to give it one more shot.....and here's my mods.

I sheeted the stab with 1/16 basswood. The balsa was very soft on mine and it's broke twice from the flutter. Also, I'm trying a new position on my elevator servos. I hope it works....we'll see!

ser00.....BTW, I was incorrect when I said 4" in both directions. I think it's more like 2.5. It's somewhere in this thread.

jetpilotrich

The correct throw for the elevator at high rate is 2 1/8" up and 2 1/8" down for a total of 4 1/4 total throw. It is a lot of throw but it works well. I flew my SU-27 last week for the first time in about 2 years and had completely re-wired it.... I got rid of the old PCM Futaba and now use a Airtronics 2.4 system. Those elevator throws worked great as they did a few years ago.

Sparhawk also has a good working Flanker.... he can also give you some good tips.... you have to get rid of all the play in the system you can to avoid flutter. I used a thicker tork rod in the tail... 4-40 is still a bit flimsy!

If you can connect the elevator with a rod and horn... that would be a good idea!

The only problem I see with your new setup is that the holes you made for the installation of the stab servos has severely reduced/weakened the structure of the horizontal stabilizer and it is more prone to failure even under a normal load.

Rich

jodini

My Feedback: (2)

Jetrich! Always good to see you out here. Thanks for posting the throws....is that 2 1/8 from the outside of the elevator or the inside. Since the thickness of the elevator is different, it would matter. I'm assuming you are talking from the inside of the elevator.

I had to change my setup a little. I was obeying the 90 degrees rule but with my connection on the very end of the servo arm, any play from the servo was multiplied when it came to my elevator. So instead I decided to come closer to the servo and went back to some digital servos since they were tighter and more responsive.

Well, here's where I am. If feels very solid. I hear what you are saying on weakening my elevator stab Rich. The way I looked at it is when I sheeted it with basswood, it strengthed it so much more than what I had.....so I think I'll be O.K. We'll see![]


I took pictures of how much throw I can get from this set-up. This is extreme, but it shows I can do it with no binding.

Joe

darthvaj

I have a question about the wing layout for this model. I am building mine now and noticed what seems to be alot of washout in the wing tips. Is there suppose to be washout in the wing? and if so how much? if not can i order a new wing kit. Thanks for any info and help.

Mark

ser00

Hi everybody,

Jodini, have you flown your plane since you moved the servoes outward and directly connected them to the elevators? I am torn between setting up the elevators using 1/8" torque rods or direct connection like Jodini has done it. Is one way better than the other in reducing flutter? Also, I bought myself a new radio (Futaba 7C 2.4gh). I read that I can set up ailervators with the radio. The two elevator servos will act at an elevator when you pull or push the stick and move opposite when you move the stick left to right. What is everybody's opinion on this setup? I am thinking it will fly better in the air but I am not too sure about landing. If you need alot of elevator to land this plane, then I do not think I want one side of the elevator to drop alittle and give me less overall elevator response. Any opinions?

Happy flying and soft landings!

ftjets

I set up ailevators on an f-14 project with my 7C 2.4. You may want to visit the manual to verify but i am reasonably sure that the ailevator function can be disabled with a switch in flight. That way, you could cut it off for landings/take-off. I set mine up several weeks ago and have not had time to get back to it since.

Gutaaaooo

Hey guys, loved all the info you guys are putting out, made me decide to buy this plane, just am not sure witch Jett to get, I already have a 90xl BSE in my patriot, that I'm still breaking in, would the XL not be good for the Flanker? May be to much for this airframe? I was actually thinking of doing it will a full working flying stab like mods-r-me did, but using 1/4 aluminum rod to save weight, and 1/8 rods on the rudders. The kit will probably take a while to get, so i've got lots of time to think about it yet :P

Give me your opinions!

nchrome

Don't worry about weight in the tail of this bird cause you will need it. In the tailcones is where I have my battery pack and moved most of the servos as far back as I could get them and still a little nose heavy.

b.bixel

My Feedback: (123)

How about just about leaving them fixed! It wouldn't bother me a bit to have them nonfunctional. A update/add-on kit could be made as I haven't built mine yet.

Gutaaaooo

Well, if anyone has looked for this and did not find it: the guys at Jett (Bob), say that the best jett for this plane is the Jett 90L, the 90Xl will fly this plane ok, but the Flanker does need the larger prop for better flying. Just got my tracking number for the jett90L to go on this bird, now if Alex can just give me a traking number too

smoknrv4

My Feedback: (11)

Just ordered my su-27 today, hope there is no problems, can't hardly wait!
Have a BSE jett .90 to go in it.

Gutaaaooo

I've started my build , and although I only have a couple of Sig Wonders, and a patriotxlunder my kit building belt, this is coming along VERY fast, and I'm very happy so far!

The only part that I'm thinking about a lot is how to do the epoxy bearing for the 1/8 piano wire I'll use for the rudder and elevator, any help here would be greatly appreciated. Every picture I see on the web and on the manual, there is a grove where you want to make the bearing in, a plastic to make the glue not glue anywhere else, and a stick to acts as a wall, but what about the sides?Doesn't the epoxy just run out to the sides?Sorry if I'm being a complete noob :P

For the treads I'll just solder, on JBweld some push rods ends usually used for making CF push rods, I'll be using the ends from this guy: www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/newproduct.cfm. The 60.90 side ends are to fit 1/8" rods, so this should be a perfect fit, I'll know when I get my rods this week.

Here are some pics of what I've got so far, the last picture I just put the side formers to get a feel for it, and it looks good!

Gutaaaooo

There is a mod that a friend modeler taught me when I bought the Patriot Xl hit from him, and that is to add a sliver (1/4 to 1/2)of 1/32 or 1/64 light ply to all leading edges of the tail feathers, that way I can shape them to be razor sharp, they wont get dinged and is this case I think it even helps to reinforce the surfaces a little bit. What I do is make a mark straight down the middle of the edge leading edge, (I used goldberg center line maker). Next I take hacksaw blade and started cutting down a grove for the ply strip to go into. The hack saw blade makes a grove that the 1/32" ply slips right into, if you where to use1/64" ply I guess that a hobby saw would be the right size for the job.
Then I just put the ply strip in place , and drop a couple of drops of this CA. Sand the edge smooth, and shape to pleasure with no fear to sand down the leading edge back, and the leading edge will not be soft to dings, or anything. Just try not hit anyone's ankles, it will hurt them more then the plane

One of the only thing I have not liked in the kit so far is that the left and right horizontal stabs do not meet flush to each other if you pin them down exactly over the plans, there is a +-2 mm gap in the leading edge of where they shouldmeet, and they are flush on the TE. I will probably just epoxy them together, and put a strip of glass fiber clothin the midle, I'll sleep better at night. Can anyone that has already build this part comment on this?

Sorry for the bad quality pictures, Ihad thought they where okin the morning

Gutaaaooo

OK, so today I wanted to tackle the wings, and since I had already joined all the plywooddoublersto the balsa ribs with white wood glue last night, I wanted to get both wings ready to be sheated on top, had even pined both bottom front spars in place, but due to the angle of the wing, and the aluminum actually pointing up , I could not (picture) If I had a short piece of 3/4" I probably could, But since I don't I was stuck. Did manage to get one of the wings to the point I wanted, So I'll go to bed happy now. If anyone is seeing this, I hope to sheet this wing, andmaybe get the other to this point tomorrow.

ser00

Hi Gataaaooo,

     You seem to be building this plane really fast.  Keep up the good work and keep those pictures coming.  I have two of these kits and I plan on adding non-functioning canards (winglets) to turn one of my SU-27s into a Su-35.  I hope to get started on the build sometime during the summer so I can have it finished up for flying this fall. I look forward to following your build.

Happy flying and soft landings!

Rudeboy

Jodini,

When you slot the hinges, you have to make a cutout in both the stabilizer and the elevator for the hinge, so that both surfaces can be mounted without a gap. It'll work better, and look a lot better too...

Gutaaaooo

I thought I posted this yesterday, but guess not:
i finally got some 1/8" piano wire ,and 3/32" brass tubes to make the torque rods for the ruder an elevator. On the ruder I'll go half and half, use the 3/32" tube on the upper part of the ruder, and do the epoxy bearing on the lower part. after I had glued both torque rods to the horizontal stab I joined the halves, I waited to to this now so it was more easy to handle around, and shape the leading edge of both halves to be the exact same- I could put them side by side and compare

One note, I'll fill the little gap in both rudders and elevator where the rod bends, I don't like the rods showing, So I'll use scrap balsa there, and just carve it up.

Today I Had everything ready to proceed on the fuse. I finished shaping the fuse had the horizontal stab ready, and the wings done to the point that I could use them to hold the wing plate in position, making sure I had not gap between the wing and the wing plate. to make sure I did not glue the wingbolt plate to the fuselage, I puta piece of plastic on it, and just slid the wing support plate on the wing, works like a charm. Iused epoxy to glue the wing plate, might be overkill but I will sleep better

Edit: www.connectorsrc.comare what I used on the 1/8 piano wire, and it fits on tight enoght that I had to hammer it in, but I also used some JB weld in and on it, just to be safe. I like these rod ends very much, I'm glad I got 50 from the get go!