Bo, and for who is interested, just to give a second view with examples.

Why no drawing software?

Try to open these pictures with paint and enlarge them
Look at the x and y coordinates on bottom left side of the screen to make distances readable.
With this simple tool any picture is easy to compare and calculations, also three dimensional if needed with the use of these 2 dimensional coordinates are possible so no CAD but Paint, that’s one of the important software tools for me.
Picture 2 does show what’s possible with rectangular figures on special made combined pictures..
CAD and laser cutting haven’t much to do with the process of redesign and reconstruction of classic pattern planes.
For me it is more an art like sculpting but with the use of calipers, a pair of compasses and a drawing board.

Cees

Gents,

Why no trial and error method?

Redesign and reconstructing an airplane never can be a process of trial and error, it is much too complicated. The method of trial and error is often used by people who have little knowledge in the problem area.

What to do to prevent to use a trial an error method!

Only work with facts, data and information you can double check. If you cannot double check an important part of information, don’t use it. It absolutely will disturb the end result.

Be very careful with written information of reporters and not experienced people. A lot of stories are written with a commercial back ground or telling fairytales, even these days, All information I lay on a balance, if doubt I don’t use it.

Try to replace your mind in that of the person in the past. Ask yourself:” How would he have done It?. This is real redesign, but you have to be a designer yourself to reconstruct the process with positive results.

Never look at, or compare, poisoned or incomplete pictures, (pictures that does not have the right dimensions or color scheme) The displayed wrong objects will be stored in your mind forever.

Try to double check all the important values before start building. You only can use one route, study, calculations, pre design, detailed design, construction drawings and prepare, construction and pictures check. Building an airplane is too complex to use the trial and error method. Only start to built whe you are absolutely convinced about the design

After starting the construction, you never can go back,. only very minor changes are possible, see the picture of the last post, and the posts about the root of the fin of the Oldest Taurus on Earth.

The pictures?

How to make the turtle deck of the Simla, dimensions are exactly known, only the method to build is a process of trial and error for me , but that’s my search for a method to reduce costs of my hobby.

Cees

Gents,

Trial and error?

A very good example of the redesign and reconstruction process is an activity we, a colleague modeler in Australia and I, did start up a few weeks ago. Try to catch the wing ribs of the Top Flite Taurus in a computer calculation program.

We know the ribs are modified, but how?

Reconstructing the NACA 2419 is a whisper of a penny, I use my own excel program for that and did show examples before. But, what was really modified in the past by Ed and people of Top Flite.

In my search for the facts, of course I also make a study of the Orion, with “NACA2415 modified" on the plans. Maybe modified for same reasons in same direction.
Orion and Taurus do have a lot of similarities introduced by Top Flite!

End of process?

First, maybe there is no end of process!! If I do not find the facts, than it is end of story and the problem is put in the refrigerator again as we did before, long time ago.

But when the result is within a millimeter:

We have the possibility to print the wing ribs wherever on the world, “modified” and in the right proportions.
We maybe create a shortcut of all changes and faults and do have the most original shape again(even if it is worse flying).
Maybe I can make one more step to the important details of the Simla and Oldest Taurus on Earth, it all has to fit with the many details I discover in articles and pictures.
It also has to do with the redesign and final check of the wingdata of the Simla, before start detailed engineering and constructing.
Maybe most important of all is simple finding the answer after I did ask myself:” How would he have done It?” Not to use it but simple to know it.

Trail and error we cannot use in our project to reconstruct the history of the Taurusses!


Example
A picture of one of the (lot of) pictures of print-outs we send over the world to compare with most accurate data we have, a set of Top Flite kit plans in Top condition.

Cees

Gents, for who is interested.

T & E? No R & D!

Summertime is the period for me to fly the Top Flite Taurus Cargo Lifter and bring the plane to a higher technical level.
Picture 1 rebuild of (part of) the airspeed controller of the Taurus to adjust separate controller parameters for pulling and braking. (wiring not completed)
Don’t worry, this is individual (3D?) prototyping and only important facts are: reliability and easy to change, it is all within the specs and accuracy.

Description: Triple mode, dual parameter, single cross limit airspeed (rpm) PID controller with bumbles transfer and anti reset wind up.

The controller is fail safe and separate supplied.
With the new system I want to know more about the control of the AOA of the prop during the brake actions. Data logging will show me the results.
If the results are bad, no problem, by coincidence I do have some place in the refrigerator.

Airspeed transmitter still the same, picture 2, calibrated (every year) and in excellent condition.
Only visible is the pitot or Prandtl tube. It is not a wistle of a penny or a tube to blow up the plane!
The transmitter is mounted in the wing.

Cees

Top Flite Taurus update.
First four flights went very well after installing the electronics for cruise control, only did replace the glow plug.
Important now is fine tuning of parameters of the controller(s) and measurement of results. Most interesting part of research and development. I use also sound recordings and different rules to find most effective controller parameters.
Without the right parameters the system is useless and even dangerous.
With the bigger, 13 “ propeller (was 12) finding the new adjustments takes some time.
Picture 1 made this afternoon after the successful flights.
Inside isn’t much changed, a picture to archive (2)
More changes visible on outside after 6 years and 5 months picture 3.

Cees

Getns,
A few pictures in the newsletter of the club.
Nice weather to fly.
http://www.hoppenbrouwer-home.nl/ikarus/nieuws2010.htm


Cees

Gents,

“RC Scale Aircraft” most interesting part of aeromodeling.

Scale 1 : 1 is possible when the real one has a span of 100 inch.

A second tool I use for picture comparison, beside paint, first post of this page, is a screen caliper, adjustable units, move and rotate, it’s all possible. I use the tool often to measure distances and dimensions and calculate the ratio’s.
Position of the caliper is maintained while I change a (background) picture. So when both pictures have the same scale I can do compare measurements with the lap top also. So there are all kind of measuring tools for the period of study and calculations.

It is only possible to show the caliper "in action" by making a picture of the screen.

Cees

Gents, Simla modern construction tools?

Because the fuselage of the Simla will be assembled from several prefabricated panels I have to glue doublers on these. Reason? Less noisy, stronger, light and cheap.
All other projects went well (See posts 753 754) and for that my project refrigerator is empty so “spare”.
Hanna did ask me: "Why not use the compressor of it for vacuum bagging?"
Yes!. New?
No, as old as the way to Rome, vacuum bagging with a refrigerator compressor only you need some additional equipment to control the pressure and temperature, see picture.

Cees

Gents, for who is interested,

I do have some communication about the airspeed measurement and of course the question, how to calibrate the Taurus airspeed transmitter?
More inportant, what is the pressure level of a Prandtl tube?

When we look for values of dynamic pressure, the pressure of a Prandtl tube, we find for example in Bennewitz Flugzeuginstrumente (1921), the values of picture 1. It is a part of a “Staudrucktabelle”. These values does not change, only the Barometric pressure can be some different. We also can calculate the values.

We see the dynamic pressure of an airspeed of 50 km/h is 12,3 mmws (Millimeter Wassersäule) is mm water column, and that is about ½ inch water culumn.
Measuring the important stall airspeed of the Taurus isn’t easy. these pressure levels are lower than ½ inch wc.

To calibrate the airspeed transmitters of the Taurusses I use a Thommen (Switzerland) Micro pressure gauge (age about 40 years, so classic pressure indicator) . Max range of this pressure indicator is 10 mm water column and has a scale to read in tenths of mm. Dimensions front is 95 x 95 mm.
10 mmwc (so max scale) is generated at 45,1 km/h.
Lowest value to check the transmitter of the Taurus has to be about a half of this speed.
The dynamic pressure of a speed of 22,5 km/h is a quarter of the 10 mmwc is 2,5 mmwc generated at a speed of 13,7 mph!

Of course the Thommen is calibrated too (with a German Askania Minimeter).

Speeds above 45 km/h I check with a U tube water gauge, see again values picture 1 red square, flight level 0 km.
There are some tricks to couple the instruments and “generate” these low pressures by hand with a rubber hose.
The intrument indications are compared on a few speed levels, for example 20 -50 - 80 % (is 4 - 25 - 64 % of pressure level of max speed pressure)
Deviations are noted and can be used to correct measurements after flights.

Cees.

Gents,

Reconstruction of the Taurus wing ribs is still going on.
With information from the other side of the world It was possible to adjust all parameters of the program to have the right dimensions.
Length of ribs, thickness of ribs near hinge line, position of spars in the ribs seems to be alright.
As example wing rib 11, one of the calculation test ribs because on this pocation in the wing the aileron is not cut off.
Now our attention we have for the little differences between the plan ribs and the official NACA 2419 airfoil, and if necessary we can change the data of the airfoil in the program to match them with the plans. Our profit in the future, the wing will be reproducible and we have all data in metric units. Also modifications will be more easy. Straight TE for the Les Fruh Taurus for example but there are more reasons.

Cees

Gents,

For who is interested, search for stall speed:
Did some measurements on the Top Flite Taurus with the data logger to know some real airspeed values after overhauling
.
Weight about 4 kg, so heavier than standard. Engine MVVS 10 CC.
Fuel 5 % Nitro, 10 % oil. Propeller Graupner Sonic 13 x 7.

Measured airspeed values.

Top speed horizontal flight, two measured values, 133 and 137 km/h
Controlled pattern speed, two valiues. 79 and 85 km/h.
Lowest speed to fly “safe” horizontal 47 km/h and lowest speed to fly without maintain altitude 33 km/h.

During the flights for safety reasons I do have located the position of the CG 8 mm direction "nose heavy" of the official location. Result is, the Taurus doesn’t stall.

Next activity is replace the CG backwards near the official position. Replace the battery (s). Search for real stall speed.

All values measured with the Robbe (Data) bordcomputer 8323 and a calibrated airspeed transmitter. Accuracy +/- 3 % of measured values.
Edit: position of the logger (German Bordcomputer) to show in post 763.

Cees

To be complete!
Measured airspeed in “AMA values”

Top speed horizontal flight, two measured values, 82,64 and 85,13 mph
Controlled pattern speed, two values. 49,09 and 52,82 mph.
Lowest speed to fly “safe” horizontal 29,2 mph and lowest speed to fly without maintain altitude 20,51 mph.

During the flights for safety reasons I do have located the position of the CG 0,315 ” direction "nose heavy" of the official location. Result is, the Taurus doesn’t stall.

Next activity is replace the CG backwards near the official position. Replace the battery (s). Search for real stall speed.


Cees

Gents,

Upload picture of position of Robbe Bordcomputer (data logger) and remove that ugly big picture of post 761

Cees

Gents, for who is interested.

The Robbe Bordkomputer (Germany) of my Top Flite Taurus does have two analog input channels and one digital engine rpm channel. I can take about 9 samples during a flight. Enough for data logging during flights to select propellers and measure airspeed values or engine temperature.

MODIS

Robbe, Modell Datenerfassungs und Informations System (MODIS).

By coincidence I did discover a Robbe Modis (germany) continuous data log system and I was able to buy it.
With the system it is possible to sample continue 4 analog and one digital RPM signal during a flight. Total period depends on the count of samples per second but that seems to be enough. I probably can use my own designed sensors (airspeed, fuel level, engine temp).

In the picture, the data logger and the airspeed sensor that was delivered with the system just as a RPM sensor (not in the picture).

Have to bring the system alive again, after that, try-out in the near future in the Top Flite Taurus so maybe soon in this theatre.
If it is working again satisfactorily, it will be used next year in the Oldest Taurus on Earth and the Simla.
After a program of test flights I probably know more about performances of these two Classic Hot Pattern Ships.

Cees

Gents,
Some pictures of my research today.
Measuring muffler pressure without (2) and with (3) check valve in the connection between the muffler and the tank.
I do need the values to know the most backwards possible position of the tank when use a MVVS in the Simla.
I also have to do these measurements with the ST G60 on the benche.
I do not like to use crankcase pressure, much to high in my opinion.
Of course I also did fly today, but the results are only visible on bottom side.(4)

Cees

Gents, Top Flite Taurus

Still not ready after overhauling, funny things to do.
Today I did install an new thermocouple. Electronics and element I do make myself.
To archive, a picture of the thermocouple before isolating the wiring. Picture 1
Second picture after mounting.
Important for me is the 200 C degrees detector to detect overheating during flight. (Bad glow plug, lean running etc)
I also can take samples during flight.

Cees

Gents,
I do fly my Taurus for a long time now, as Taurus Flyer for many years.
An early opinion of me was, it did look more like a cargo lifter than an original pattern plane. After the radio was installed there still was plenty of room left to built in all kind of equipment. See picture to archive (before all is installed definitively).

And were these radio’s in the past so big? No relayless receivers weren’t, with their semiconductor amplifiers in the servos, no, not all as big. Only for the man in the street there was so much room needed sometimes.

After I did have the crate picture and reconstruct my Oldest Taurus on Earth it was clear to me, the Frank Myers and later Top Flite Taurus was the commercialized wide body Taurus of the Oldest Taurus on Earth, first pattern Taurus of Ed Kazmirski.

Remember, Propellerheads, History repeating, 1960.

I did write in post 745, Summertime is the period for me to fly the Top Flite Taurus Cargo Lifter and bring the plane to a higher technical level. Tomorrow the check out of the engine temperature measurement, part of the electronics on the picture.
Calibrated with hot boiling water, hot junction and ice, cold junction of the thermocouple.

Cees

Gents, for those who still remember!

(US 1977, peaking at number 39 in the Billboard Hot 100. Later 1978, Dutch top 40 number one)

I have a very talented Taurus pilot, people often say: “Look at him, go this boy can really fly”
So I did want to surprise him and reinstalled his “?”

Result, yesterday before start-up I did hear him saying to his plane: “It will feel all right, well I want to make your motor run.”

Dashboard

Picture 1, Winter simulation, LED lights blue below lowest acceptable temperature. “Touch it is cold and lonely……….”
I have to “pre heat” for my pilot, after that: “Baby got to go & shout it!”

Picture 2 , Engine reaches normal operating temperature, intermitting green, duty cycle shows us the temp of normal operating temperature. Constant green is above normal operating temp:
"gonna go all the way…..? “Before we go any further………”

Picture 3, Lean running, in a few seconds the LED lights up red as result of a temperature above max acceptable (my check during flight). “STOP RIGHT NOW”, The red color we can reset by power off-on of electronics.

Taurus, looks like a little “Paradis by the dashboard light”.

Cees

Gents, a short note about overheating, technical matters,

As we can read in the thread about the engine for a KF, one of the results of overheating of the old ringed engines can be, losing of tension of the piston ring,
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10028465

the problem for the ABC engine, in my opinion, is reduced quality of oil, loosing of ability to maintain a oil film between piston an liner to prevent metal to metal contact. I do not use castor oil, only synthetic oil in the fuel!
I also did detect destroyed ball bearings as result of axial displacement of these bearings in the crankcase after a moment of overheating. See picture, black oil on the fuselage.

For this reason I prefer my detection on all my engines also in the Simla next year whatever engine I will use, MVVS (ABC), ST G60 (ringed).

Cees

Gents,

Angles do not play with us, we play with angles.

Original construction drawings of the replica are ready and we use them to build the plane now. Takes some time but that’s the way we like it.
Because I do have all original dimensions I also can recalculate, in spare time, all other pictures the way I did with the crate picture.
What is interesting?
Location of vanishing points, Point of View of the camera: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7993660
and dimensions and angles of remarkable objects, visible on the picture.

Cees

Gents, a picture to archive, for who is interested

I did calculate a lot of POVs (point of views) now of the pictures.

Why not a double check with one of these.

Make a picture in the exact calculated POV so we can compare with the Simla, not difficult and look results.
The Oldest Taurus on Earth multiplied by 150 % just as Ed did in the past.
All red (edit) lines are exact 35 pixels long, we see the swept back wings, all other positions nearly exact.


Next picture the scene, Hanna, grumpy because I did not let her in the important square.

Last picture, what can we expect next year when comparing my replica with the original Simla.
These are Top Flite Taurusses, the crate and my replica, an old picture.
The Simla, I expect an absolute accuracy within a few mm’s.

Why not!


Cees

Gents,
The crate picture did give me a lot of details I needed to reconstruct the Oldest Taurus on Earth but also the Simla.
Designing the Simla does give me the latest information to reconstruct the rudder of the Oldest Taurus on Earth. The TE of the rudder wasn’t visible on the Crate picture. (see red oval)
Now we can make compare picture with the use of the right POV, I did decide to give the fin/rudder the same dimension as the Simla. Ratio of dimensions of course 2 : 3. Best choice until the moment we maybe see a second picture of the original. During test flight we will have the experience the way the rudder will perform.
See picture, orange segment added to the rudder.
Cees

Gents,
Result of the study, the TE of the Rudder of the Oldest Taurus on Earth.
Final action to complete the building, after that, finishing the plans.
Cees

Gents,

Normally I use some flights to find out the weight to mount in a wing tip to balance the plane in longitudinal direction.
In the past I did have to adjust weight in the left wing to counterweight the muffler, now the airspeed transmitter in the left side wing does generate more imbalance than the muffler so I have to mount the weight in the right wing.
Still I have to do adjustments, other engine (OS Max , MVVS) or different electronics or pitot tube.

Normally I mount a number of bolts (picture 1) in the wing and after the trim flights are done I replace the bolts by a piece of lead glued in the wingtip.
After that re-paint the tip, see the picture 2. It is no point, I have to do that nearly once a year because the tips often are touching the ground. Covering material silk and dope

Sometimes I wonder how people do this when flying an ARF and do not paint the wing,

So how to balance the muffler system in an ARF pattern plane?
Does someone use an adjustable system to switch over from pipe to muffler?

Cees

Gents,

Sometimes people are wondered, why do I redesign and reconstruct all alone (with Hanna) and not chose to cooperate in a team.

Short story.

Part one

I use pictures to let a new replica plane grow in my mind and I like snap shots.
To compare I search for important differences and try to find important proportions and ratios, after some time I recognize equivalent planes in other pictures, a learning process. The pictures I show I did photo shop myself to show the ratio’s of two fuselages in the Ed Kazmirski’s Taurus thread.

Picture 1 is a picture of me, part of a study of 12 pictures, I show some more. Picture 4 I didn't show before I think so with recent date.

See the post 501 8/12/2008 for the first one.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7837598

A part of my prove the Oldest Taurus on Earth really existed is based on these set of pictures.
The real important dimensions are measured by others (and not from the pictures!) for me to do the double check. Facts, pictures and data are dated and archived and case is closed to use in my project!
Sometimes I also write letters to the USA to collect data for an important double check. No double check no fact, simple is that.

Part two

I was surprised by reading these posts; 1161, 1162 and 1163 and some earlier of comparable content.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8638876

Fuselages do have the same vertical dimension people show.
See also:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7892474


Part 3

Yesterday I do read this post and I see my own good old picture back again, the picture of the set of 12 of 12 August 2008:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10051547

So the fuselages now do have different vertical dimensions again?
Of course but still in post 80 we can read:

“I knew there were differences, but I didn't think they so profound.”

Someone who still did have the photo shopped picture of post 1161 in mind!! I think so.

Conclusion:

Same thing happen in other projects now, pictures with “measured values” some after photo shopping “to have better results!”.
This is a main reason I prefer to work all alone, one straight line from study, basic design to test flights.
Never have to argue or use a step program (mixing up, you still remember!!) never running round in circles.
Building my replica of that one single plane of the past. Trying to get the highest accuracy in shortest time .

Cees